Al ears
Well-known member
Oldphrt said:
Possibly, always assuming you had a very shitty mains supply which some of our foreign posters may indeed have.
Al ears said:
Nobody's mentioned an intolerable amount of background noise. If they did, I would tell them to buy a new amp or get it fixed.
Well I think the degradation in sound could have been something to do with all the new caps breaking in and nothing to do with the Hub because boy has it opened up the last couple of days, it sounds lovely now, it’s amazing what these old speakers can do. Haven’t even rewired them yet, still rocking the crusty old thin base metal stuff, got some Van Damme Blue to use when the binding posts arrive.
Lucky old me’s also been given a Power Chord which should be an upgrade to the Clearer Audio ones for what it’s worth so that’s powering the amp now (got the Russ Andrews filters in the CD63 so thought the amp might benefit more?)
Anyway put it this way I am definitely a believer in mains filtering having repeated my A-B tests tonight now everything has had more time to settle in!
Lucky old me’s also been given a Power Chord which should be an upgrade to the Clearer Audio ones for what it’s worth so that’s powering the amp now (got the Russ Andrews filters in the CD63 so thought the amp might benefit more?)
Anyway put it this way I am definitely a believer in mains filtering having repeated my A-B tests tonight now everything has had more time to settle in!
I think im scared. When i got a new amp and streamer, i also got a tucana mains conditioner thingy. It wasnt an impulse purchase, being sensible i wanted to protect my stuff.
Ive used it from the off and everything sounds great, no pops or smears. Never had my amp plugged directly into the wall socket. But this thread is giving me the the "What if?" random nagging . .
Ive used it from the off and everything sounds great, no pops or smears. Never had my amp plugged directly into the wall socket. But this thread is giving me the the "What if?" random nagging . .
SemiChronic said:
Do you mean a Tacima Mains conditioner?
I suggest you try your amp plugged into the wall. If you hear no difference...Happy Days.
If you prefer the sound plugged into the wall, you have 3 choices:
- Live with the risk
- Live with the reduced SQ.
- Spend more more on a better block, that gives protection.
Well I can only advise trying it. I think in my case it wasn’t the filter affecting things but just the system sounding naff generally for another reason - the only other recent change being new caps in the amp and speakers. If you are a believer in the theory of caps needing “breaking in” then my guess is that’s what was causing it.
As I say the only way to be sure is try it but my feeling is it will probably have no adverse effect on small to medium size amps.
As I say the only way to be sure is try it but my feeling is it will probably have no adverse effect on small to medium size amps.
And im very pleased and embarrased to say "Its better"
Seriously i feel like such a twonk. Should have done it about a year ago.
Im useless at describing sound, Its a definate improvement. Everything sounds more Alive
Seriously i feel like such a twonk. Should have done it about a year ago.
Im useless at describing sound, Its a definate improvement. Everything sounds more Alive
nopiano
Well-known member
To be sure it's not just what you were expecting, switch back in a few days. Sometimes things sound better just tidying up the wires, but I think that's more imagined than real!SemiChronic said:
SemiChronic said:
Are you saying the Amp sounds better plugged into the wall? Have you left everything else plugged into the Tacima (if it is a Tacima)?
Is this how you are leaving it?
Amp plugged directly into the wall(At the expense of twig lights)
And streamer and cd plugged into leema tucana mains conditioner thingy.
Yes, i think i will leave it like this providing the mrs doesnt throw a wobble re: pretty twigs
And streamer and cd plugged into leema tucana mains conditioner thingy.
Yes, i think i will leave it like this providing the mrs doesnt throw a wobble re: pretty twigs
SemiChronic said:
Best thing to do in this hobby is definitely just listen to your ears. Glad you’ve noticed an improvement in it, as someone’s already said, swap it back in a few days and see how you feel then.
If you’re a “believer” in mains conditioning the passive plug in devices (Isoplug, Silencer etc) are very effective in removing noise without needing to actually plug components into it.
Personally I’ve left the amp plugged into the conditioner although I’m looking at Russ Andrews’ DIY Silencer which should give the best of both worlds ie. the noise filtration without “strangling” the amp as it fits across the back of the IEC socket without the current running through it
Thats pretty much how id describe what the tacima was doing, strangling the amp.
Ive swapped cables before and the mrs has noticed, so i'll see if she spots the change in sound without mentioning it.
Ive swapped cables before and the mrs has noticed, so i'll see if she spots the change in sound without mentioning it.
SemiChronic said:
Yup that’s how I’ve heard it described before, most often with the Tacima’s actually. Don’t think it’s an issue with my system after all though. If I were you (after a few days listening just to make sure) I’d try the RA Silencer plug, got nothing to lose cos he does a 60 day money back guarantee so plenty of time to see if it’s making a difference or not
britain4 said:
In a forum populated by amiable nutters such as myself, who have heard the same effect and are trying to scramble your brain with our audiophile nonsense....you should be thanking Oldphrt for his science based, common sense.
But the conspiracy goes deeper. The manufacturers of conditioners, design their products to preserve high current delivery, rate their products with the max amps/watts they can deliver and have unfiltered sockets for amps. This is not because it's necessary, but because it enables them to charge excessive sums of money, to us nutters, who think such things matter (generally as a result of having read their impressive sounding, but foo-based marketing).
Now this isn't the end of the story. If you have taken the red pill, you will stay in Wonderland and see how deep the rabbit hole goes.. T[/i]he manufacturers of amps are also part of the collective delusion and queue up to reinforce the narrative.
Sugden:
“We don’t use mains conditioners but if somebody wants to, they need to make sure it has the correct power rating. Line level equipment such as CD players and pre-amps have very low power consumption but Integrated amps and power amps require a mains conditioner of much higher rating. Using a mains conditioner assumes the equipment needs it. We spend a lot of time designing our power supplies and carefully choosing the rectifiers, transformers and smoothing capacitors. From my experience, most conditioners used on power amplifiers reduce the dynamic range. The best power supply for a system is a separate spur from your fuse box, this might even be less money. I am of the opinion you need to be as direct to the mains as possible with our class A amplifiers.
Experimenting with an isolation transformer is interesting and quite a big one isn’t too expensive to run amplifiers from.
Sorry I can’t offer any definitive technical support but as our mains conditioning experiences have been quite negative we have left it alone.”
Gryphon
"In our experience, most external powerline conditioners do more harm than good. The sound may be very different, but not necessarily an improvement. Listen very critically and for an extended period of time, before making a final decision about purchasing a conditioner.
Gryphon products incorporate heavily regulated multi-stage power supplies which act as effective mains conditioning filters and will in most cases not be improved by the insertion of an outboard powerline conditioner in the signal path."
Plinius
Most mains conditioners or filters act in series with the mains and will starve the amplifier and negatively affect the sound. Look for a brand that works in parallel. If you need this treatment to your mains supply, this is a better option for you."
Lavardin
"Most of the power conditioner and other "filtering" devices are designed to provide a certain immunity to adverse signals, voltage and current. Manufacturers are happy to demonstrate the effect of their filters. This kind of protection is more than necessary when it is about dental surgery electrical appliance !!!! Concerning your hifi system, unfortunately, most of what they do is the reverse of what could be beneficial for the sound. A Hifi system is not a piece of hospital electronic gear. This comes from wrong understanding of the problems that should be solved. Now, when this kind of equipment is used with traditional hifi gear, it brings some effects and some times it is not worth than any thing else : it makes somes changes. But does it improve the sound ?"
So there you have it. Oldphrt has a vocation to make sure that audiophoolery is kept to an obsolute minimum and save the sanity of those who have not yet been irretrievably drawn to the Darkside. An admiral goal.
CnoEvil said:
add Hegel to the list who advise not to ruin the sound with power cables and conditioners - I emailed them
So conditioners/filters clearly CAN make a difference to sound according to the mentioned manufacturers.
They may feel it undermines the sound their equipment produces but it could well be that some individuals prefer the outcome of using them in the context of their systems.
There you go.
They may feel it undermines the sound their equipment produces but it could well be that some individuals prefer the outcome of using them in the context of their systems.
There you go.
IMO. The Amp Manufacturers highlight the problem. The brands of conditioners try to mitigate it.....which is usually expensive for power hungry components. My experience is that conditioners often make the sound worse for amps, unless very well designed and expensive.
It's only my experience...and I'm happy for others to give a different POV. It's important that both sides of the debate get aired.
It's only my experience...and I'm happy for others to give a different POV. It's important that both sides of the debate get aired.
CnoEvil said:
Now there's an interesting and informative post!
I have no issue with someone having a different opinion to my own, but when one tries to force it upon me, I get a bit upset. I know vegans like this, as well as various hifi theorists and others, and there's no quicker way to make me dislike a person *stop*
The quotes you posted above are very interesting and seem to revolve around the argument that their products are so well designed already that they don't need them.
This seems to read more like marketing hyperbole than any definitive proof that mains conditioners don't work. The fact that Sugden do acknowledge in passing that the quality of mains can be important says less to me about the effectiveness of mains conditioning in general and more about the apparently suspect quality of the specific device they used to make that assessment.
Also, something in the vein of a RA Silencer or an Isoplug isn't going to "strangle" anything or have any possible adverse effects yet I see only one mention of those types of devices there.
On the other hand I assume Oldphrt believes what his own ears are telling him* and has informed himself well on the topic so perhaps rather than forming our own opinions from personal experience we should all just listen to him instead!
*just like I do
drummerman said:
This is it in a nutshell I think!
CnoEvil said:
Perfectly plausible. I'm more than happy for others to air their opinions but not if one is being dogmatic about it and also not if one cannot be bothered to write more than a one word (or one acronym) post on the topic.
I rephrased my previous post slightly to clarify that it wasn't aimed at you.
As mine is a relatively a modest amp and not particularly power hungry (and gets played mainly at quite low volumes) it makes sense to me that a conditioner wouldn't have much of a detrimental effect on it. I do believe that now all the new components have had time to settle in a bit, I have actually noticed a small improvement from using the conditioner with both the amp and CDP plugged into it.
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