Real world listening

[plastic penguin]

As many of you know I'm not a fan of graphs and paper specs. There are many modern amps that reads better than the Leema. I've demoed so many speakers over the 14 years I've owned it, including infinite baffle designs as well as ported and vented designs. Of course the Leema has lost a little volume with the Dalis, but still drives the speakers to impressive levels without any clipping.

My TB2is were very efficient while the Rubis are quite inefficient in terms of ohms. The amp isn't phased by speakers that have nasty dips in ohms either. So is a graph or paper spec a worthy alternative to physical listening?

Your views please.

 

[DougK1]

Charts and specs can illustrate lots of things but the only things I trust are my lug 'oles

 

[podknocker]

I think all amp and speaker companies are aware of each others devices and their corresponding demands. I can't think of a mainstream, everyday product you could buy from your local HIFI shop that would cause serious problems with the other kit that it's expected to work with. You can find exotic and esoteric components and kit at the very top end of performance and finding compatible partnering devices can be tricky. Just about every amp and speaker you can buy will work with anything its connected to. Graphs and specs can be useful, but listening is always going to be more useful. Having an amp with much more current than a speaker would like is always going to be better than driving recalcitrant speakers with an underpowered amp. The only thing to consider is being careful with the volume control, if it's a slippy rotary one.

 

[daytona600]

If it sounds bad and measures bad then it's bad, but it sounds good and measures bad then you measured the wrong thing.

Western Electric 16a from 1929 grand father of all speakers made for the talkies jazz singer
WE invented the Speaker / PA system
Measurements are truly shocking , but sound better than 99% of every speaker ever made
8 watts could fill a room of 3,000 people with One Speaker

 

[DougK1]

Having an amp with much more current than a speaker would like is always going to be better than driving recalcitrant speakers with an underpowered amp. The only thing to consider is being careful with the volume control, if it's a slippy rotary one.

Agreed on the first point, Pod. You've mentioned problematic rotary volume knobs several times, I've never had an amp without a rotary volume knob and I've never encountered issues with any of them

 

[Noddy]

If it sounds bad and measures bad then it's bad, but it sounds good and measures bad then you measured the wrong thing.

Assuming the measurements are done competently, then it just means you like voiced gear that doesn’t reproduce sound faithfully. A lot of boutique equipment that costs a fortune is voiced. Or perhaps there is some resonance or feature of your room that works best with a particular voicing.

Measurements on headphones tell me if they are worth trying out. The trend in consumer cans is for bass heavy which I hate. So I didn’t even bother with Sennheiser and B&W wireless cans. I like neutral, and the neutral ones I tried were excellent.

 

[Friesiansam]

So is a graph or paper spec a worthy alternative to physical listening?

Decades ago when I bought my first Technics gear, I would have said yes but now, it's what it sounds like to me, that matters.

 

[nopiano]

There is an argument that amplifier design is pretty much a solved problem. With something based on a Hypex or Purifi module you get 80 wpc upwards with essentially unmeasurably low distortion and noise. Drives any speaker, uses not much electricity and runs cool.

Many more traditional class AB designs like your Leema are equally pretty immune to weird speaker impedances and will get the best from most speakers.

I do find measurements and charts useful to establish where weaknesses might be apparent, and with loudspeakers mainly, once one learns to match specs with preferences ( when auditioned), a lot of listening and leg work can be saved when trying to shortlist something for audition.

What fascinates me with speakers is that you’d imagine the more you spend the more designs would converge. However, in practice it’s quite the opposite, whereas budget 2-ways about the size of an A4 sheet are made by the thousands.

 

[Noddy]

So is a graph or paper spec a worthy alternative to physical listening?

If you know your tastes, measurements can help you wittle down a shortlist for auditioning, saving you having to audition all and sundry.

 

[abacus]

How an amp reacts with the speakers will determine the sound of it. (This is because speakers contain capacitance and inductance as well as resistance)
All the amps mentioned above are built to a price, therefore they will vary depending on the speakers, (The more expensive ones mentioned will be less affected) however if you go really high end then the power supplies and output stages have so much driving capabilities, they will not change whatever is connected to them.
As I have mentioned before, there are 2 types of Hi-Fi enthusiasts, those that like a nice sound and those that want a sound that is as accurate as possible (If a recording is bad then it will sound bad), hence the reason to have a listen.
All differences' can be measured, however what can't be measured is people's personal preferences, which is why listening is the only way to get an ideal match.
Biological life forms senses suck big time and is the reason they are easily tricked into seeing, hearing etc. something that is not there, hence the reason why when making critical comparisons it has to be done totally blind and random.

Bill

 

[Jasonovich]

Charts and specs can illustrate lots of things but the only things I trust are my lug 'oles

'ear 'ear!

 

[Jasonovich]

We talk about graphs and measurements and I agree, when this is used in reference to subjective reviewing , you can then make an educated choice about the Hifi that ticks most of the boxes or one that is the most preferable to your listening requirements.

If you rely entirely on word or mouth, you need to filter out the sponsorships, brand loyalty, personal bias's and lazy reviewers using social trends to mask bad products.

Apart from Audio Science Review, I don't see too many HiFi publications that factor in any kind of measurements when reviewing a product. I feel it's half cooked when reviewers overlook this.