Too many of you guys are pathetic!
Some hear a difference - you don't that makes them deluded yet you are completely sane?
And please save your talk of science. The reproduction of a 3D image in an open space is a phenomenon that can be affected by the slightest change - that's why this hobby is so subjective.
While alot can be explained by math alot cannot - like why the phase can have such a dramatic effect on what you hear - same signal from A to B different sound.
Some really need to read themselves.
There is no right or wrong. just try it - if it works fine if it does not move on.
There really is only one way to sort this.
Some hear a difference - you don't that makes them deluded yet you are completely sane?
And please save your talk of science. The reproduction of a 3D image in an open space is a phenomenon that can be affected by the slightest change - that's why this hobby is so subjective.
While alot can be explained by math alot cannot - like why the phase can have such a dramatic effect on what you hear - same signal from A to B different sound.
Some really need to read themselves.
There is no right or wrong. just try it - if it works fine if it does not move on.
There really is only one way to sort this.
Electro
Well-known member
Thompsonuxb said:
Engineers build hi-fi using science, but at the moment it enters the cardboard box, somehow it becomes a mystery to all man kind. *boredom*
CnoEvil said:
With fists of sarcasam, no less.
steve_1979
Well-known member
Thompsonuxb said:
What exactly is it about the conductivity of electricity that you think isn't fully understood by science?
It's a very simple phenomenon that has been thoroughly been tested, proven, understood and documented. It's also totally and predictable by maths and has been proven millions of times to be totally accurate where theory and practice always match 100% perfectly.
steve_1979
Well-known member
nopiano
Well-known member
...and surely conductivity is not the only factor here, is it? The materials, the dielectric, vibration, 'noise', may have a bearing upon results? Were it truly just a matter of conductivity then all cables would be the same as everyone would agree what was ideal.Vladimir said:
As others have noted here before, the higher you go in hifi, the more divergence one finds. Yet logically, with more budget you'd think ideas would coalesce around a preferred outcome - the sound of music!
steve_1979
Well-known member
steve_1979 said:
Well... despite the signal in speaker cable being Alternating Current, the electrons do have a more optimal direction of flow, depending how the copper crystals are aligned. One direction will have less resistance than the other.
Also after some time of current flowing through cables, they develop a memory. They optimize for that direction by aligning the crystals and within time resistance drops. This 'forging' of metal on molecular level using electric current is also known as 'burning in'. Best thing to do is using the manufacturers suggested direction (indicated with arrows on the cord) and never changing it so the cable doesn't get confused.
Everytime science cannot explain things, think crystals. Simples.
The conductivity of electricity?
It's what's carried within the electrical signal that's an issue were hifi is concerned.
The image that is produced in a space be it stereo, mono or 5.1 and beyond.
What science cannot explain is that 3d image. How different depth, width and height is achieved.
It's not just about the recording process as no two reproductions when played back are exactly the same.
Even when the same kit delivering the same sound can have vastly different results in rooms of similar size and construction. And why all this is so subjective.
If it was so predictable we would not be in threads like these - plug in and go is what we would have.
It's what's carried within the electrical signal that's an issue were hifi is concerned.
The image that is produced in a space be it stereo, mono or 5.1 and beyond.
What science cannot explain is that 3d image. How different depth, width and height is achieved.
It's not just about the recording process as no two reproductions when played back are exactly the same.
Even when the same kit delivering the same sound can have vastly different results in rooms of similar size and construction. And why all this is so subjective.
If it was so predictable we would not be in threads like these - plug in and go is what we would have.
steve_1979 said:
C'mon vlad contribute something more than guff.
This far into the thread, what do you know or think?
This far into the thread, what do you know or think?
Vladimir said:
steve_1979
Well-known member
MeanandGreen
Well-known member
Thompsonuxb said:
What you are talking about now is not just about electricity. You are talking about acoustics, which is still science and mathematics.
The reason we will never have plug in and go is because of room acoustics. Most people have no clue about how their room interacts with the speakers, and I'd say that the vast majority of people dissatisfied with their system don't have it set up properly for their environment.
The 3D image of space, depth, height and width etc... All comes down to how the speakers interact with their surroundings, acoustics/physics. The musical signal which gets to the speakers is all about electronics/electricity.
Unless you listen to headphones, you are always listening to the distortion added by your listening room.
The phase of the electrical signal also has some bearing.
Sure you've wired your speakers out of phase same signal different sound.
An example of how the signal can be affected by a conductor depending on its insulation is If you use Cable tv/internet the coax used is recommended it have a solid insulation around the copper.
You have honeycomb types etc.
Using the wrong cable will affect your service - picture break-up and so on.
The thing with the laws of physics ref conductance is it applys to all conductors regardless of size.
The cable argument.
The bi-wire argument is you will get a drop in the incoming signal off a single wire split to drive 2 or 3 drivers dependent on the sensitivity of your drivers that can well be audible compared with a run to each driver.
Like i've said and the OP stated it may not show with ever system but it will and does with others.
But again we would all need to be in the same room to prove this.....
Sure you've wired your speakers out of phase same signal different sound.
An example of how the signal can be affected by a conductor depending on its insulation is If you use Cable tv/internet the coax used is recommended it have a solid insulation around the copper.
You have honeycomb types etc.
Using the wrong cable will affect your service - picture break-up and so on.
The thing with the laws of physics ref conductance is it applys to all conductors regardless of size.
The cable argument.
The bi-wire argument is you will get a drop in the incoming signal off a single wire split to drive 2 or 3 drivers dependent on the sensitivity of your drivers that can well be audible compared with a run to each driver.
Like i've said and the OP stated it may not show with ever system but it will and does with others.
But again we would all need to be in the same room to prove this.....
Hello Thompson. Trying to be tactful and friendly my friend. I respect that you have an opinion on this subject but it would appear that you're unable to express it properly as I have no idea what you're trying to explain. Hope I haven't offended you friend.
So all amps should sound the same?
Regardless of cost, an amp of 90watts costing 120£ should sound exactly like a 1000£ amp same room same speakers?
Cheap components able to deliver the same signal has expensive components.
It's all electrical.... Right?
Regardless of cost, an amp of 90watts costing 120£ should sound exactly like a 1000£ amp same room same speakers?
Cheap components able to deliver the same signal has expensive components.
It's all electrical.... Right?
MeanandGreen said:
Frankly Anderson I've not read anything useful from you one way or the other.
Piping in with pointless 'quips' is useless.
Provide a solid opinion or explanation or go take a short stick and go play in some dirt....or something...... :-D
Piping in with pointless 'quips' is useless.
Provide a solid opinion or explanation or go take a short stick and go play in some dirt....or something...... :-D
Anderson said:
MeanandGreen
Well-known member
Thompsonuxb said:
I never said all amps sound the same. I was saying that speakers and acoustics play the biggest role in stereo imaging. I was trying to get across that imaging can be explained with science as it's all physics.
Mathematics would allow for the optimal listing environment to be designed for a given pair of speakers.
The music signal is carried by electricity for which we need electronics to reproduce. Some electronics will reproduce a more 'pure' signal than others. What you eventually hear are sound waves as a result of the interaction between the speakers and the air in the room. All of which is affected by room size & shape, furnishings, building materials etc... The electronics job is to get the signal to the speakers without degration which is actually the easiest part of the process.
Room acoustics can be a constant. The electrical signal can be manipulated to change what you hear.
Like I've said the math can show how it 'works'
But how far back a triangle is within your soundstage cannot - consider its location does not even have to correspond to the actual performance or what a mixing engineer imagined
The quality of your cables can influence ambiance, harmonics and fine detail.
PP raises an interesting post ref swapping his room around.
I genuinely suspect alot of those who cannot hear changes check how their stuff is set up.
Like I've said the math can show how it 'works'
But how far back a triangle is within your soundstage cannot - consider its location does not even have to correspond to the actual performance or what a mixing engineer imagined
The quality of your cables can influence ambiance, harmonics and fine detail.
PP raises an interesting post ref swapping his room around.
I genuinely suspect alot of those who cannot hear changes check how their stuff is set up.
MeanandGreen said:
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