Real world biwiring results & recent upgrades - hifi fever still rising

[Thompsonuxb]

MeanGreen I don't dispute that. I understand the technics and tricks but the mixing is done in '2d' left to right.

Like drawing a 3d image on paper.

The end result though is not constant - the image between speakers is not constant, it'll even vary with volume.

Lol. ....

I don't disagree with anything you've said.

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Lol..... MeanGreen, if you know how to calculate were a given instrument will appear in a soundstage, please share.

Look, the whole point about cables, bi-wiring is 'subjective' ? - for those who hear no difference, tuff. Does not make those who do hear differences deluded.

Like I've said if putting your speakers out of phase can make a difference to what you hear then the cables used can also affect what you hear.

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With regards to the soundstage read Anderson's quote below. If you were mixing and recording in a studio you can mix/boost/cut any instrument you want to either the left or right channel, or even between both at once. Hence the 3D image. The highest of frequencies are the most directional and the lowest are omnidirectional. Any recording engineer will understand these principles and can mix a track to produce exactly the image they want.?

How well your system and most importantly your speakers are set up and integrate with your room will determine how accurately you will hear that 3D image at home.

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I don't see how wiring out of phase making an audible difference to the sound proves anything about Biwiring or cables affecting sound?

Wiring out of phase is basically inverting the signal. That very obviously will have an effect. Biwire is electrically no different to single wire. The signal is exactly the same.

I don't dispute people hearing a difference, I'm not saying they are deluded. I do think they may be fooled into hearing a change because of psychological reasons or placebo if you like.

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The stereo image thing is going off topic and I have previously said to the OP, if he is happy with his changes with the biwire then great!?

Happy biwiring and merry Christmas!?

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Its not an unknown phenomena, its called a recording engineers and producers. You use a mixing desk, for each source/channel you have you can pan the sound to come from wherever you please, this allows you to create a '3D' image via stereo. Its not black magic or voodoo, I don't understand how people don't understand this.

Thanks for explaining the guys question though.

 

[Vladimir]

The proof is in the pudding.

Electric signal can change from biwiring or from different copper crystal structure or from air humidity etc. Unless you can hear it in a double blind test, it's measurable but inaudible, therefore pointless. I would gladly own a pair of gorgeous Nordost cables in bi-wiring formation and flaunt them in front of everyone with pride. I wouldn't care if they make a difference or not. It's luxury and I like it.

 

[Anderson]

Sorry if I'm being obtuse but what have you been trying to get at Thompson?

 

[DocG]

Did you tri-wire that 5m run on each side? Some say bi-wire is where its at. I know from personal experience that I got a 66.6% improvement in sonic fidelity when I went tri. If you go bi you just wasting your time, once you go tri you know you gonna fly. My my my! Um hmmm!

Everybody loves you when you're bi!

 

[tonky]

He's Tri !!!!

 

[Anderson]

I'll tri anything me!

 

[Vladimir]

This love thing has gone out of hand.

 

[Jim-W]

This love thing has gone out of hand.

No, no. Still plenty of evidence of the 'love thing' kept firmly in hand.

 

[Anderson]

This love thing has gone out of hand.

No, no. Still plenty of evidence of the 'love thing' kept firmly in hand.  

You sir get an A*

 

[Covenanter]

This love thing has gone out of hand.

No, no. Still plenty of evidence of the 'love thing' kept firmly in hand.

Do I detect an innuedo?

Chris

 

[Jim-W]

This love thing has gone out of hand.

No, no. Still plenty of evidence of the 'love thing' kept firmly in hand.

Do I detect an innuedo?

Chris

If only I had slipped 'member' in there...oh well, hindsight is a wonderful thing; I was merely referring to 'the low yo-yo stuff' as Captain Beefheart would have it: there seems to be a lot of it about recently.

Yours etc

Baron Von Tostoff- the ruined pole.

 

[Freddy58]

If only I had slipped 'member' in there...oh well, hindsight is a wonderful thing; I was merely referring to 'the low yo-yo stuff' as Captain Beefheart would have it: there seems to be a lot of it about recently.

Yours etc

Baron Von Tostoff- the ruined pole.

Hiya Jim

So, what's your position with regards to cables? *smile*

 

[Jim-W]

If only I had slipped 'member' in there...oh well, hindsight is a wonderful thing; I was merely referring to 'the low yo-yo stuff' as Captain Beefheart would have it: there seems to be a lot of it about recently.

Yours etc

Baron Von Tostoff- the ruined pole.

Hiya Jim So, what's your position with regards to cables? *smile*

My position? With regard to cables? Well, that would be horizontal, Freddy. Horizontal and immobile. Mind you, I hear people talk, I do, about this new-fangled hifi what don't need no cables but I'm thinking well how can I bi-air or bi-stream to improve the sound quality? It's kept me awake, I can tell ya.

 

[Native_bon]

This thread is a perfect example of why mankind is flawed. SHAME SHAME SHAME!!. Well, it was fun reading it anyway, makes me feel better about myself... And what comes next..?

 

[fr0g]

This thread is a perfect example of why mankind is flawed. SHAME SHAME SHAME!!. Well, it was fun reading it anyway, makes me feel better about myself... And what comes next..?

It's all written down in The Book of Revelation. (Whoever wrote that was a very early user of lysergic acid diethylamide IMO).

 

[Freddy58]

This thread is a perfect example of why mankind is flawed. SHAME SHAME SHAME!!. Well, it was fun reading it anyway, makes me feel better about myself... And what comes next..?

I don't know, but as sure as eggs is eggs, another cable thread will be along shortly *sad*

 

[Freddy58]

If only I had slipped 'member' in there...oh well, hindsight is a wonderful thing; I was merely referring to 'the low yo-yo stuff' as Captain Beefheart would have it: there seems to be a lot of it about recently.

Yours etc

Baron Von Tostoff- the ruined pole.

Hiya Jim So, what's your position with regards to cables? *smile*

My position? With regard to cables? Well, that would be horizontal, Freddy. Horizontal and immobile. Mind you, I hear people talk, I do, about this new-fangled hifi what don't need no cables but I'm thinking well how can I bi-air or bi-stream to improve the sound quality? It's kept me awake, I can tell ya.

Yeah, it's a worry *biggrin*

 

[Vladimir]

It's all written down in The Book of Revelation. (Whoever wrote that was a very early user of lysergic acid diethylamide IMO).

Terence McKenna's ancestors maybe?

 

[davedotco]

My position? With regard to cables? Well, that would be horizontal, Freddy. Horizontal and immobile. Mind you, I hear people talk, I do, about this new-fangled hifi what don't need no cables but I'm thinking well how can I bi-air or bi-stream to improve the sound quality? It's kept me awake, I can tell ya.

Hell yes, tell me about it.......*pardon*

I am currently loosing sleep over how the variable amount if contention in any dac that buffers or reclocks the data will impinge on the soundstage when used on a bi-Airplay (left + right) setup.

Dynaudio seem to manage it on the Xeo system but how on earth do I sync up two AEXs?

It's driving me nuts.......*wacko*

 

[Jim-W]

My position? With regard to cables? Well, that would be horizontal, Freddy. Horizontal and immobile. Mind you, I hear people talk, I do, about this new-fangled hifi what don't need no cables but I'm thinking well how can I bi-air or bi-stream to improve the sound quality? It's kept me awake, I can tell ya.

Hell yes, tell me about it.......*pardon*

I am currently loosing sleep over how the variable amount if contention in any dac that buffers or reclocks the data will impinge on the soundstage when used on a bi-Airplay (left + right) setup.

Dynaudio seem to manage it on the Xeo system but how on earth do I sync up two AEXs?

It's driving me nuts.......*wacko*

I'd very much like to help you, Dave, but, as I literally didn't understand any of this, I'm afraid I can't. Have no fear though: somebody who has the answer to your problem will be along very soon, closely followed by somebody who may fundamentally disagree with the first poster, but who will prove his/her point with the aid of science and, if you're lucky, a cathode ray oscilloscope. Hey presto! I won't understand any of that either; you probably will though.

 

[unsleepable]

Hell yes, tell me about it.......*pardon*

I am currently loosing sleep over how the variable amount if contention in any dac that buffers or reclocks the data will impinge on the soundstage when used on a bi-Airplay (left + right) setup.

Dynaudio seem to manage it on the Xeo system but how on earth do I sync up two AEXs?

It's driving me nuts.......*wacko*

Don't lose too much sleep after re-clocking DACs… After all, we might not even be able to hear the difference…

Syncing two AEXs is as simple as using iTunes—right now I feel like if I was breaking it to you that Santa is the parents. *secret* You just need to cut a couple of cables if the particular bit about separating the channels wasn't a joke. With any luck, there will be a sync mismatch between AEXs that will increase the soundstage enormously and cover any jitter issues.

 

[davedotco]

The plan is simple enough, a pair of active speakers, each with it's own airplay device (AEX) and dac, simple selector switch so that the left speaker only gets the left channel etc. The sync in question is any variance in the processing time for each dac.

I quite like the idea of varying the sync to enhance the soundstage, hours of fun to be had there.

My AEXs are early dual band models with, compared to the latest, fairly low jitter, but the contention on the Airplay reciever (chip?) is most definitely different on the two units. Maybe if I just sit a long way from one of the speakers.....*unknw*

 

[TrevC]

I went from bi wire to setting it as single with a link, which ended being better overall, had the bi wire set up since the 90s, after changing it realised that single wire and links had better sound.

Yep, that would be the expected result because the series impedance of the wire is halved by doing that.

 

[Anderson]

Maybe one of you intelligent people can answer a question I have regarding impedance.

What happens to impedance if you are biamping? Say you've got 2, 2 channel amps, one amp per speaker? One channel doing highs and the other doing lows. The speaker is rated at 4ohms nominal. Would the amp still see the nominal or would it be halved? What if you had mono amps driving low and highs separately? I imagine in this instance the amp would see a difference?

 

[Anderson]

Thanks for your reply Vlad. So it would appear (as usual) that nothing is ever straightforward in the HiFi world. I appreciate your taking the time, I have to admit I read over your post several times, I think I understand what you're saying. I've got some more research to do.