Real world biwiring results & recent upgrades - hifi fever still rising

[ID.]

Oh, it's turned into this thread again.

One side has the basic known facts of science. The other has their intuition and subjective personal experiences. Both have supreme faith in their own positions and experiences, so I don't think these parallel lines are ever going to meet. Dunning-Kruger. Truthiness.

 

[andyjm]

Oh, it's turned into this thread again.

One side has the basic known facts of science. The other has their intuition and subjective personal experiences. Both have supreme faith in their own positions and experiences, so I don't think these parallel lines are ever going to meet. Dunning-Kruger. Truthiness.

I am not sure I would dignify a bunch of guys who swap a few connections around on the back of their loudspeaker, perceive a difference and then decide that 'science doesn't know everything' - as a 'side'.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

ID....look at it like this.

Those who come hear with their big mouths shouting how stupid people are for hearing a difference or there is no difference really need to consider.

Their argument should be MY system does not have the resolution to differentiate the differences cables or wiring can make to what they hear.

'MY system'

to be honest this being the internet it would not surprise me if they are listening to a Binatone or an old Armstrad system - come on hear talking about their Electroplanet or Krell set ups......prrrft.

If the electrical signal can be manipulated using a dsp circuit for example why wouldn't the composition of cables not alter what we hear.

If phase can change the sound why cannot how your speakers are wired?

Just to add at the time of writing there is no math that can provide the exact point in a space, longitude etc of were an instrument will appear in a soundstage.

It's not us v them.... Just logic.

Oh, it's turned into this thread again.

One side has the basic known facts of science. The other has their intuition and subjective personal experiences. Both have supreme faith in their own positions and experiences, so I don't think these parallel lines are ever going to meet. Dunning-Kruger. Truthiness.

 

[Vladimir]

In hi-fi someone with no formal knowledge on engineering, physics, electronics, mechanics will try to fabricate scientific explanations from reading random reviews, forum comments, general observation and try to leap the canyon sized gaps with logical straw bridges. Despite 4 years of formal education in a polytechnical highschool I do it too and I can imagine how much someone who is a lawyer, dentist or a hair dresser is strugling with this. We are like children finger painting stuff. I made something that resembles a poodle and you made an elephant that looks like a chair. So ha ha, I'm better than you.

Overestimation occurs, in part, because people who are unskilled in these domains suffer a dual burden: Not only do these people reach erroneous conclusions and make unfortunate choices, but their incompetence robs them of the metacognitive ability to realize it.

Source: Confident dumb people (nice call ID)

If I was andyjm I would too just grab a pint of guinness and enjoy this epic comedy channel called 'technical discussion about hi-fi.'

Cheers Andy

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Oh it's Vlad..... Lol
Another no point post - I said it before, an opinion or share what you actually know, think you were posting as Anderson att...... ;-)

 

[Vladimir]

Just logic.

That'll do Tommy, that'll do.

 

[Vladimir]

Oh it's Vlad..... Lol Another no point post - I said it before, an opinion or share what you actually know, think you were posting as Anderson att...... ;-)

Electroplanet?

 

[ID.]

Just logic.

As I said. Truthiness. Your "logic" seems to be based on what "feels" right. I'm not saying that cables do or don't make an audible difference (I'll leave that to others), but your examples, metaphors, analogies, etc. make little sense to me and just seem to be made based on a gut feeling of "truthiness" based on your subjective experiences. Maybe I don't understand your explanations because you are assuming a lot of shared knowledge on my part that I don't actually have when your explanations really need to be much more explicit. Or maybe you are just falling into the common human trap of having experienced something subjectively and then tried to justify or explain it after the fact.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Still nothing.....

You and your fake education.....

Edit:
Sadly my humour gets lost around here.....

Just logic.

That'll do Tommy, that'll do.

 

[Vladimir]

I wish we could go to a pub Thompson. I'll outbeer and outrant you till 6am. *crazy**drinks*

 

[Thompsonuxb]

How you conclude that baffles me.

I accept what you say maybe I take for granted we are all on the same page with regards to how things work.

But any one can wire their speakers out of phase and hear the difference.

All they changed was the polarity on their speakers..... Yes.

These are not gut feelings. This is why I'll always suggest people try for themselves THEN decide.

Just logic.

As I said. Truthiness. Your "logic" seems to be based on what "feels" right. I'm not saying that cables do or don't make an audible difference (I'll leave that to others), but your examples, metaphors, analogies, etc. make little sense to me and just seem to be made based on a gut feeling of "truthiness" based on your subjective experiences. Maybe I don't understand your explanations because you are assuming a lot of shared knowledge on my part that I don't actually have when your explanations really need to be much more explicit. Or maybe you are just falling into the common human trap of having experienced something subjectively and then tried to justify or explain it after the fact.

 

[Electro]

Electroplanet?

Sounds like my sort of heaven *dirol* *biggrin*

 

[tonky]

I've bought equipment based on a listening experience. I've heard differences and that has pointed me in a direction to buy or not buy. Subjective - based on hearing the equipment not on power or any other objective electrical measurement.. I love music - not electronics.

If someone hears a difference and that influences their choice - good for them. Maybe we should just respect their choice and reasons for it and leave them to it - rather than continually denigrate their choice.

tonky

 

[Thompsonuxb]

I'm not much of a drinker Vlad.....but yes, I could see us going at it till the early hours .....🙂

I wish we could go to a pub Thompson. I'll outbeer and outrant you till 6am. *crazy**drinks*

 

[Anderson]

To be fair Thompson I actually do have no idea what you're trying to explain.

 

[Vladimir]

I've bought equipment based on a listening experience. I've heard differences and that has pointed me in a direction to buy or not buy. Subjective - based on hearing the equipment not on power or any other objective electrical measurement.. I love music - not electronics.

If someone hears a difference and that influences their choice - good for them. Maybe we should just respect their choice and reasons for it and leave them to it - rather than continually denigrate their choice.

tonky

Alright already. We know you enjoy telling people to stop telling people what to do. Now, please join us at telling silly things about electronics and stop ruining the christmas cable thread.

And don't even think about telling me to not to tell you not to tell things.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Lol.... I don't care.

To be fair Thompson I actually do have no idea what you're trying to explain.

 

[Vladimir]

To be fair Thompson I actually do have no idea what you're trying to explain.

Put on your reading glasses instead of those welders. *biggrin*

 

[tonky]

I've bought equipment based on a listening experience. I've heard differences and that has pointed me in a direction to buy or not buy. Subjective - based on hearing the equipment not on power or any other objective electrical measurement.. I love music - not electronics. If someone hears a difference and that influences their choice - good for them. Maybe we should just respect their choice and reasons for it and leave them to it - rather than continually denigrate their choice. love and peace tonky

 

[Anderson]

Okay we're all agreed.

Vlad don't you tell anyone not to tell you not to tell someone or something.

Thompson Merry Christmas

OP Niccccce

 

[MeanandGreen]

To be fair Thompson I actually do have no idea what you're trying to explain.

He is trying to say there is no technical explanation for where instruments appear in the soundstage. It is some kind of phenomenon.

 

[tonky]

I've bought equipment based on a listening experience. I've heard differences and that has pointed me in a direction to buy or not buy. Subjective - based on hearing the equipment not on power or any other objective electrical measurement.. I love music - not electronics. If someone hears a difference and that influences their choice - good for them. Maybe we should just respect their choice and reasons for it and leave them to it - rather than continually denigrate their choice. tonky

 

[davedotco]

I've bought equipment based on a listening experience. I've heard differences and that has pointed me in a direction to buy or not buy. Subjective - based on hearing the equipment not on power or any other objective electrical measurement.. I love music - not electronics. If someone hears a difference and that influences their choice - good for them. Maybe we should just respect their choice and reasons for it and leave them to it - rather than continually denigrate their choice. love and peace tonky

No one would seriously suggest otherwise, that 'someone' may have made a good choice, maybe not, it's their choice.

The problem arises when that 'someone' parades these subjective differences as 'fact', claims spurious technical 'logic' as to why these views must be correct and dismisses clear scientific evidence to the contrary with that magnificent phrase....

"Science doesn't explain everything, it's all just theories".

 

[tonky]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion - but if one person hears something different that's their choice - I can't or won't disprove it - even though I may not agree with what they say. Even if what they say is plain daft. Which I am not say it is btw

Some people just want to extend this argument/discussion based on "personal issues" and, frankly, it has become a little tedious.

Anyway - peace and love to all - good music rules ok no matter what height , humidity or temperature we hear it at.

And moderators - Please lock this thread!!!!!!! I think we have all had enough !!

Repect to all

tonky

 

[Vladimir]

For the greater good?