Real world biwiring results & recent upgrades - hifi fever still rising

[davedotco]

This thread is hilarious, OP still trying to justify why he can hear a real improvement with his own system. It's definitely not expectation basis, definitely.

I think we should lock the thread, its getting embarrassing now.

People debunking scientific method without having the faintest idea of how science 'works', self proclaimed 'scientists' claiming to know about pyscological processes yet seemingly quite sure that auch processes do not apply to themselves.

You really could not make it up and fortunately you don't have to, it's all here.

I blame the parents...... and the schools.

 

[spiny norman]

He cites sources

Ooo, sources! (swoons)

is there something specific you disagree with?

Yes, the same old hackery being trotted out over and over again in quotes, signatures and the like. Haven't self-appointed crusaders for justice any imagination? Or is that unscientific?

 

[CnoEvil]

Haven't self-appointed crusaders for justice any imagination? Or is that unscientific?

They are members of A.R.S.E (Approved Resident Science Experts), I'll have you know...show some respect!

 

[Anderson]

He cites sources

Ooo, sources! (swoons)

is there something specific you disagree with?

Yes, the same old hackery being trotted out over and over again in quotes, signatures and the like. Haven't self-appointed crusaders for justice any imagination? Or is that unscientific?

Attack the person if you can't refute the science.

 

[chebby]

I just wish that boutique cable companies would peddle BS that is at least consistent with scientific fact (even if their claims are still BS).

It would at least re-assure me that their designers understand electricity and have to lie credibly because some of their customers understand it too!

As it is, we have manufacturers, reviewers and a lot of customers who - collectively - still believe c### like needing arrows printed on cables to tell you which way the music has to 'flow'!!

 

[andyjm]

1. HiFi is a technical discipline, and as a general rule, smart technical people have better things to do with their time than posting on an internet forum for non-technical Hifi enthusiasts. A working assumption is that most posters on this forum don't have technical backgrounds.

2. On the internet, posters with years of experience who understand what they are talking about, and those who are completely clueless effectively get the same access - each post is given the same weighting.

Putting 1 and 2 together, it is a fair guess that a good portion of this (and most other threads on this forum) is complete claptrap. Reading through the thread, it confirms my view.

Circuit theory and the understanding of conduction is a mature science with hundreds of years of analysis and testing behind it. I can only guess that most posters don't have a clue about basic electrical theory, and therefore assume that the change in perceived sound after making a change to their speaker wiring is due to some as yet undiscovered electrical effect, rather than their completely unreliable ear/brain combination interpreting the sound differently.

 

[CnoEvil]

1. HiFi is a technical discipline, and as a general rule, smart technical people have better things to do with their time than posting on an internet forum for non-technical Hifi enthusiasts. A working assumption is that most posters on this forum don't have technical backgrounds.

2. On the internet, posters with years of experience who understand what they are talking about, and those who are completely clueless effectively get the same access - each post is given the same weighting.

Putting 1 and 2 together, it is a fair guess that a good portion of this (and most other threads on this forum) is complete claptrap. Reading through the thread, it confirms my view.

Circuit theory and the understanding of conduction is a mature science with hundreds of years of analysis and testing behind it. I can only guess that most posters don't have a clue about basic electrical theory, and therefore assume that the change in perceived sound after making a change to their speaker wiring is due to some as yet undiscovered electrical effect, rather than their completely unreliable ear/brain combination interpreting the sound differently.

.....and this seems to give the green light to arrogantly swat down any poster who doesn't meet the requisite standard....after all, they get what they deserve. It certainly makes for a welcoming forum.

 

[Vladimir]

 

[Anderson]

1. HiFi is a technical discipline, and as a general rule, smart technical people have better things to do with their time than posting on an internet forum for non-technical Hifi enthusiasts. A working assumption is that most posters on this forum don't have technical backgrounds.

2. On the internet, posters with years of experience who understand what they are talking about, and those who are completely clueless effectively get the same access - each post is given the same weighting.

Putting 1 and 2 together, it is a fair guess that a good portion of this (and most other threads on this forum) is complete claptrap. Reading through the thread, it confirms my view.

Circuit theory and the understanding of conduction is a mature science with hundreds of years of analysis and testing behind it. I can only guess that most posters don't have a clue about basic electrical theory, and therefore assume that the change in perceived sound after making a change to their speaker wiring is due to some as yet undiscovered electrical effect, rather than their completely unreliable ear/brain combination interpreting the sound differently.

.....and this seems to give the green light to arrogantly swat down any poster who doesn't meet the requisite standard....after all, they get what they deserve. It certainly makes for a welcoming forum.

I know what you mean but what is the alternative.

 

[CnoEvil]

1. HiFi is a technical discipline, and as a general rule, smart technical people have better things to do with their time than posting on an internet forum for non-technical Hifi enthusiasts. A working assumption is that most posters on this forum don't have technical backgrounds.

2. On the internet, posters with years of experience who understand what they are talking about, and those who are completely clueless effectively get the same access - each post is given the same weighting.

Putting 1 and 2 together, it is a fair guess that a good portion of this (and most other threads on this forum) is complete claptrap. Reading through the thread, it confirms my view.

Circuit theory and the understanding of conduction is a mature science with hundreds of years of analysis and testing behind it. I can only guess that most posters don't have a clue about basic electrical theory, and therefore assume that the change in perceived sound after making a change to their speaker wiring is due to some as yet undiscovered electrical effect, rather than their completely unreliable ear/brain combination interpreting the sound differently.

.....and this seems to give the green light to arrogantly swat down any poster who doesn't meet the requisite standard....after all, they get what they deserve. It certainly makes for a welcoming forum.

I know what you mean but what is the alternative.

A little friendliness mixed with tact and diplomacy, goes a long way.....I have yet to see one case where someone's mind was changed after they were "put right" in an arrogant and patronising manner. Nobody likes being chastised, especially by a faceless person on a forum.

Remember, it's often not what's said that's the problem, but the way it's said.

 

[chebby]

1. HiFi is a technical discipline, and as a general rule, smart technical people have better things to do with their time than posting on an internet forum for non-technical Hifi enthusiasts. A working assumption is that most posters on this forum don't have technical backgrounds.

2. On the internet, posters with years of experience who understand what they are talking about, and those who are completely clueless effectively get the same access - each post is given the same weighting.

Putting 1 and 2 together, it is a fair guess that a good portion of this (and most other threads on this forum) is complete claptrap. Reading through the thread, it confirms my view.

Circuit theory and the understanding of conduction is a mature science with hundreds of years of analysis and testing behind it. I can only guess that most posters don't have a clue about basic electrical theory, and therefore assume that the change in perceived sound after making a change to their speaker wiring is due to some as yet undiscovered electrical effect, rather than their completely unreliable ear/brain combination interpreting the sound differently.

.....and this seems to give the green light to arrogantly swat down any poster who doesn't meet the requisite standard....after all, they get what they deserve. It certainly makes for a welcoming forum.

I know what you mean but what is the alternative.

An equal 'weighting' to non-technical / non-scientific explanations of how hi-fi works? An increased tolerance of feelings and of the unknown/unknowable/inexplicable when it comes to people's descriptions of various 'phenomena' regarding things like audiophile cables and magic feet etc.

 

[Anderson]

True, but. The softly softly approach doesn't work either. There was a post several pages back which demonstrated a typical crossover network in relation to bi wiring, it was tactful and factual. It has been ignored.

What can you do..

 

[Freddy58]

A little friendliness mixed with tact and diplomacy, goes a long way.....I have yet to see one case where someone's mind was changed after they were "put right" in an arrogant and patronising manner. Nobody likes being chastised, especially by a faceless person on a forum.

Remember, it's often not what's said that's the problem, but the way it's said.

Great post Mr Evil

 

[chebby]

There was a post several pages back which demonstrated a typical crossover network in relation to bi wiring, it was tactful and factual. It has been ignored.

What can you do..

To many people such diagrams are 'blinding them with science'.

You can't 'do' anything. (Not without a giant time machine, a shipload of cash and the political influence to enact some really effective educational reform - especially in teaching science - over the last two generations!)

 

[CnoEvil]

An equal 'weighting' to non-technical / non-scientific explanations of how hi-fi works? An increased tolerance of feelings and of the unknown/unknowable/inexplicable when it comes to people's descriptions of various 'phenomena' regarding things like audiophile cables and magic feet etc.

Surely it's possible to make an argument without making it personal?

What a dull place this would be if everyone with a subjective opinion was driven away (it's already heading too far in that direction for my liking).....leaving behind a clutch of objectivists all patting each other on the back for a job well done. They'd soon get bored without anyone to "educate".

 

[CnoEvil]

True, but. The softly softly approach doesn't work either. There was a post several pages back which demonstrated a typical crossover network in relation to bi wiring, it was tactful and factual. It has been ignored.

What can you do..

The objectivists on here seldom do "softly", so it's hard to tell.

If someone has consistantly heard differences, they will need a lot of convincing.....telling them they are deluded and ignorant is certainly not the best way.

 

[steve_1979]

What are you bloody over sensitive audiophile pansies whining on about now? Who says we're not tactful? (JOKING!)

*diablo*

I have an idea. Lets all chill out and be friendly. Merry Christmas everyone. *drinks*

 

[tonky]

Let's draw a line under this partticular sorry episode - learn from it - try not to let it happen again - --- - - speak to others as you would want to be spoken about yourself. We do have a reasonable number contributing on the site for whom English is not their first language. Kudos to all of them - some may not be as eloquent as our experienced posters - but let's be welcoming to all

People, let's impart help and knowledge in a manner which befits this great site and the overwhelming majority who are superb contributors. (And half decent lurkers like myself!).

Cnoevil - thanks for your very thoughtful posts which must be highly repected by all us - coming from an experienced poster as yourself.

Merry Christmas to all tonky

 

[steve_1979]

Agreed steve 1979

You agree they're a bunch of whining oversensitive audiophile pansies? *shok*

Subtlety and tack. I has it. *dirol*

 

[tonky]

To all sides - I'm sure you said tactful - I agree with that.

The wining/whining and dining is for Christmas day!

 

[pyrrhon]

Edited ** Since this thread is at the apologies Im going to move my question to a new topic.

I'll try to politely bring this to the core.

My brother in law is a physicist and he also have deeply studied tube amps. He tells us that any wire will sound the same. Any wire! Well of course it as to be conductive enough.

Im not a scientific, I am a bachelor in computer science and it is totally irrelevant. But beeing passionate about physics I pushed my brother in law with this : Electromagnetic induction.

Here is the hypothesis that I want to validate with the better electrical people here:

The mass of the moving part of the speaker has inertia and will move slightly beyond its intended travel (just inertia but friction cold also play dont know) since its a solenoid moving into magnetic field an undesireble current is inducted there and flows toward the tweeter and can or could affect it more if the wiring flows to the tweeter without passing by the amp. And also I gues that the damping factor could probably apply.

He was puzzled for a while then told me it could.

Anyone can confirm, debunk whatever?

 

[Vladimir]

Love the new avatar Anderson.

 

[Anderson]

Love the new avatar Anderson. 

I was inspired.

 

[CnoEvil]

Cnoevil - thanks for your very thoughtful posts which must be highly repected by all us - coming from an experienced poster as yourself.

Merry Christmas to all tonky

It won't make the slightest difference, but thanks for the endorsement. Those who agee with the sentiment don't need reminding; for the rest, common courtesy is an alien concept.

Merry Christmas

 

[davedotco]

Love the new avatar Anderson.

I was inspired.

Is that 'Angry'......?