Posh ethernet cable?

[The_Lhc]

Cidershed:
Wow, you ask a question!

First off, shooter fair comment about power cords etc. I've been really impressed with the AE sound quality through my CA kit. I originally ran my desktop to it from my back room (maybe 5 metres or so) and it worked well, though dropouts did occur and lasted a few mins (impossible to listen to). Through optical it sounded crisp, clear and punchy though perhaps a little too much energy(could be the CA kit tho) into the back of my 740C.

I also had problems feeding spotify through airfoil so decided to go for the laptop option. Hardwire it into the amp, no more dropouts. I've got no optical out on the laptop and the usb connection through the Dacmagic is a little disappointing so I thought laptop ethernet>AE optical>DAC>amp. It works a treat, sounds good and streams solidly. Job done. Just thought the ethernet cable I'm using free from TalkTalk might be improved upon as cable changes I've made elasewhere in the chain have definately made a difference. Despite a shaky start, there's been some helpful suggestions and I'm grateful for the advice. Think I'll stick with the cheap cable, sounds good. But not quite as good as the wi fi connection from my desktop, which is why I asked.

Just my opinion of course

The difference you're hearing is nothing to do with the Ethernet being wireless or not (the dropouts will be interference btw), you've changed your source, that's why there's a difference.

Ethernet is not an audio carrier, it's data, nothing in the Ethernet link even knows there's audio involved. There is no difference in Ethernet cables because the protocols see to it that the data is delivered correctly or it's resent. If that weren't the case no computer network would work reliably.

The fact that you have no idea how Ethernet works doesn't prevent that from being true...

 

[Anonymous]

Is being rude common on this site? I do actually realize an ethernet cable sends digital info from my laptop to the AE so I don't have 'no idea how ethernet works'.

Some of you people need to learn some basic respect, I've only asked if people have opinions on whether different quality ethernet cables exist and may be helpful. I've not charged in with an opinion and haven't had a pop at anyone so why so many people are being aggresive is beyond me. Sad.

 

[davemartin01]

Actually you asked about improving sound quality and people have tried to explain to you about what info goes down an ethernet cable and that sound quality cannot be improved. Noone has been rude and I think you are being a little hyper sensitive. I am sure there are cables of varying quality that could improve data transfer speeds (?) or durability etc but nothing can be done for improving sound Q which is of course your original question. Anyway can we all move on now?

 

[The_Lhc]

Cidershed:
Is being rude common on this site? I do actually realize an ethernet cable sends digital info from my laptop to the AE so I don't have 'no idea how ethernet works'.

I'm sorry but you don't, the comments you've made on this thread show that you're clearly equating Ethernet traffic with optical or coaxial digital audio cables, when they couldn't be more different.

Some of you people need to learn some basic respect

And you're one of them, when you ask for information from people it's respectful to listen.

I've only asked if people have opinions on whether different quality ethernet cables exist and may be helpful. I've not charged in with an opinion and haven't had a pop at anyone so why so many people are being aggresive is beyond me. Sad.

Nobody's been aggressive, you've been given the same, correct, answer, very politely, by people who know what they're talking about, several times and you've ignored or dismissed their answers out of hand, based on your lack of understanding of the technology (if you did understand Ethernet, you wouldn't even be asking the question). That being the case I decided that it was time a slightly blunter approach was required.

I'm not expecting you to listen or believe me either though, so I don't really know why I'm bothering but the fact is, an ethernet cable will not make any difference to the sound of your audio because it isn't carrying audio, it's carrying data and it won't make any difference to the "quality" of the data (if that has any meaning) because the protocols used in the transfer see that there is no difference. Indeed the cable CANNOT make any difference.

 

[Anonymous]

You can move on if you have nothing else to contribute. I'm interested in this subject so will continue with anyone who has something positive to add.

So people seem to think that because its a digital signal that SQ will not be affected. If this is so then why do coaxial cables sound different? Or do those all sound the same as well? In which case people like WHF seem to be imagining things as their reviews find clear differences.

 

[The_Lhc]

Cidershed:
You can move on if you have nothing else to contribute. I'm interested in this subject so will continue with anyone who has something positive to add.

No, you're interested in talking to people who will back up your own incorrect opinion on the matter.

So people seem to think that because its a digital signal that SQ will not be affected. If this is so then why do coaxial cables sound different? Or do those all sound the same as well? In which case people like WHF seem to be imagining things as their reviews find clear differences.

EDITED BY MODS for language

because the data is being sent using completely different protocols! The TCP/IP protocol used in ethernet sends data in packets, each packet has error correction information sent with it, when the receiving end receives a packet of data it checks it against the error correction data to confirm the packet is intact, if it isn't, it requests the packets is sent again, once it's happy it's received a correct packet of data it reassembles everything into the original data which arrives EXACTLY THE SAME AS IT LEFT. There is not one bit of data different at the receiving end compared to the source.

Coaxial (or optical or indeed HDMI) digital audio data uses NONE of these methods, it just squirts the data down the cable with no checking and no correction. If anything happens to interfere with the transfer it doesn't care, the receiver just has to deal with whatever it gets, so there's every possibility that what comes out is NOT what went in.

That's the difference, do some basic research and either live with that knowledge or carry on believing you're correct and the rest of the world is wrong, your choice.

 

[Craig M.]

cidershed, i mean this in the most non-aggressive, respectful way possible. you are beyond help.

 

[Anonymous]

Right, thats the first expanation of ethernet in this thread, yet you say it like I haven't been listening, insist I am right and disrespect everyone's opinion.

Thank you for the technical explanation, but you'd make a pants teacher. I don't know these things which is why I ask, so I don't know why you're getting narky.

I'm still interested in anyone's experience of using different ethernet cables though, cos thats the true test. Theories only go so far and its real world experience I'm interested in. I have an open mind and don't think I'm 'right' since I hold no fixed views on the subject and therefore have nothing to defend. Unlike some others.

 

[hammill]

idc:

Jitter is a possible reason for differences in digital cables, but there is no proven correlation between jitter and audibility nor jitter and sound quality.

Cables marketed as audiophile are often able to attract a premium price as some audiophiles are prepared to pay the money. Cables marketed as pro or professional are for studio applications or those in the business, such as tarquinh and they are not able to price themselves as highly as the pros will not pay that sort of money.But the pros still demand performance and high standards of build.

I would suggest that all audiophiles become pros, no matter what the cable is for.

Jitter MAY have some effect on HDMI cables. It cannot have any effect on packet based protocols running on ethernet.

 

[davemartin01]

Easiest way to think about it Cidershed is to forget about music and SQ and think of the internet signal you are looking at on screen now. It is the same digital signal through an ethernet or wireless if you like. If it was not perfect 0's and 1's your screen would be corrupted. So changing your cable isn't going to improve on an already perfect signal. Either you have the correct 1's and 0's or you don't. What happens to that 0 and 1 at the other end though can dramatically affect the SQ or IQ.

 

[Anonymous]

So does that mean that RFI has no affect on digital cable as it seems to on analoge cable?

 

[hammill]

Cidershed:

Right, thats the first expanation of ethernet in this thread, yet you say it like I haven't been listening, insist I am right and disrespect everyone's opinion.

Thank you for the technical explanation, but you'd make a pants teacher. I don't know these things which is why I ask, so I don't know why you're getting narky.

I'm still interested in anyone's experience of using different ethernet cables though, cos thats the true test. Theories only go so far and its real world experience I'm interested in. I have an open mind and don't think I'm 'right' since I hold no fixed views on the subject and therefore have nothing to defend. Unlike some others.
Many of the people on this thread, including myself are computer professionals and understand pretty well how ethernet and packet based protocols work, but you seem not to take our word for it. We could go into detail on CSMA/CD , sequence numbers, checksums etc, but frankly I doubt you would change your mind. You sound like someone who takes homeopathic remedies to me.

 

[Anonymous]

I couldn't change my mind cos I aint made it up yet!!!

Can I just say it one more time, I am interested in people's experience of different ethernet connection, not theories. The theory is now clear to me. If you have tried some, please let me know, but judging people's character over an internet forum is pretty pathetic, so keep it objective please.

 

[The_Lhc]

Cidershed:
Right, thats the first expanation of ethernet in this thread, yet you say it like I haven't been listening, insist I am right and disrespect everyone's opinion.

Thank you for the technical explanation, but you'd make a pants teacher.

And you're a worse pupil.

I don't know these things which is why I ask, so I don't know why you're getting narky.

No, I'm getting narky because you insisted you DID know something about it!

I'm still interested in anyone's experience of using different ethernet cables though, cos thats the true test.
YOU SEE? You're doing it again! The "true test" is the billions of ethernet cables in use all over the world, all of which function in EXACTLY the same manner and all deliver the SAME results as each other.

Theories only go so far and its real world experience I'm interested in.

It's not a theory, it's proven EVERY SINGLE TIME a network is used. We're proving it right now, just by using this forum, if ethernet cables made a difference none of this would be working. The internet is the evidence, if TCP/IP packets weren't delivered perfectly intact by any cable they pass through then none of this would be working.

I have an open mind and don't think I'm 'right' since I hold no fixed views on the subject and therefore have nothing to defend. Unlike some others.

There's no point continuing this conversation, as you clearly don't have an "open mind", you've already decided that ethernet cables make a difference and you won't believe anyone who tells you otherwise.

Your signature is both apt and completely inappropriate at the same time.

 

[The_Lhc]

Cidershed:So does that mean that RFI has no affect on digital cable as it seems to on analoge cable?

It could have an effect on coaxial digital audio cables but that's got zero to do with this subject.

 

[Anonymous]

Anyone else like to make a positive contribution who may have used ethernet in an audio context like mine? CIDER!

 

[The_Lhc]

Cidershed:Anyone else like to make a positive contribution who may have used ethernet in an audio context like mine?

This is exactly the point, you aren't using an ethernet cable in an audio context, you're using it in a data context. It doesn't become audio until the airport express reassembles the packet data into a digital audio stream and then converts it to analogue or passes it to a DAC.

 

[Anonymous]

lhc, how is my signature apt and entirely inappropriate? Could you explain your statement, as I'm sure you realize by now i'm a bit thick.

 

[AlmaataKZ]

come on, gents, stop fighting. you look like kids.

Cidershed, let me try to give an example from my experience.

I use ethernet for audio. to be more precise, a Squuezebox Touch in one room is connected to a macMini in another and gets tracks (in apple lossless format) from the mac to play them. the connection is over ethernet. moreover, it is ethernet over power lines, so it goes like that: macmini - ehternet cable - powerline adapter - mains cable - mains box - mains cable - powerline adapter - ethernet cable - squuezebox touch.

so, the data travels via ethernet cable (and everything else listed) and gets to the other end 100% intact. if and when it does not, it gets re-transmitted until it does. If it does not get to the other side, you get a gap in audio or playback is stopped. there is no intermediate state - it either plays 100% good or does not play at all.

so, ethernet cable cannot affect quality, it either works or not (that is the advantage of digital vs analog - it does not matter how good or bad you see the figure of 1 or 0, as long as you can definately tell one from the other. and in binary, there are no other figures involved). in this case, even the electical cables in the flat do not make a difference - they may be very bad ones, but as long as they manage to transmit the digital signal with enough speed, the whole system will work to 100% of teh quality of sound possible with it.

all that need sto be achieved with ethernet cable in thsi case is enough speed to transmit the data on time. And for music it is not difficult as the data rates invovled are not so hig compared e.g. with HD video. Any quality cat5 cable is fine.

Does this count?

 

[visionary]

the_lhc:It's not a theory, it's proven EVERY SINGLE TIME a network is used. We're proving it right now, just by using this forum, if ethernet cables made a difference none of this would be working.

But are you sure? After all some folks' posts are better spelled or punctuated than others.

Maybe that's down to the quality of their ethernet cables

 

[AlmaataKZ]

oh, if ethernet cables corrected spelling! I woudl need one!

 

[Anonymous]

I've used CAT 5 cable to make speakers cables does that count? But then I was very very very bored. Wonder if we could persuade Mr E to float the idea of a "What Interconnect" forum? Hold on isn't that what this is

 

[the record spot]

Cidershed:
Anyone else like to make a positive contribution who may have used ethernet in an audio context like mine? CIDER!

I gave you mine yesterday, used in an "audio" context. No difference, but that's not the purpose of the cable. Sorry it's not an answer you want to hear, but that's pretty much where it's at.

 

[visionary]

2oldnslow:I've used CAT 5 cable to make speakers cables does that count? But then I was very very very bored. Wonder if we could persuade Mr E to float the idea of a "What Interconnect" forum? Hold on isn't that what this is

Did you try bi-wiring with the different strands?

 

[chebby]

Please can someone provide links to examples of 'posh'or audiophile ethernet cable for sale out there?

(With the exception of the infamous Denon cable.)