Its more than us mate, check out the thread on other forums! I just find it a bit weird that the TV has all these settings but we are told to turn them off in order to get a good picture.
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CES Hands On - Samsung HW-Q990F review
SimL:Its more than us mate, check out the thread on other forums! I just find it a bit weird that the TV has all these settings but we are told to turn them off in order to get a good picture.
Thats not just the philips, thats EVERY tv. Certain people truly believe the more digital cr*p there is to switch on the better the tv picture will look so the manufacturers will continue to put them in
Thats not just the philips, thats EVERY tv. Certain people truly believe the more digital cr*p there is to switch on the better the tv picture will look so the manufacturers will continue to put them in
Andy Clough:
As for Perfect Natural Motion, this is a motion compensation feature that interpolates and adds frames to low frame rate material - i.e. 24fps Blu-ray movies etc. As much of TV, and particularly sport, isshot at 50fps you can turn this feature off for Sky or Freeview.
With regards to sharpness, noise reduction, Mpeg artifact reduction, Colour enhancement: these are all features for improving issues withina picture, where the viewer isn't satisfied. So, if you're not experiencing poor sharpness, washed colours or noise in the picture,they can generally be set to minimum or switched off.
And if the viewer would like an easy way to judge the impact of the overall picture quality processing, they can quickly compare by setting it to the minimum level by selecting cinema mode from the smart settings menu."
I have to disagree with your comment about blurays Andy. Blurays may 'only' be 24fps, but theyre in true progressive. Normal dvds and broadcasts etc are in interlaced which means that it displays half the picture in one frame then the NEXT half of the next frame (2 different frames with 2 different pictures). Its true that motion processing tends to work better on blurays but thats because theyre one whole frame after another with no problems. Interlaced material has the problem of 'deinterlacing' which isnt just fitting each half together, its the fact that the material is converted to work at 50Hz (2:2 and 3:2 cadence depending on what the original material was and what framerate it runs at). Because most motion (probably all actually) processing struggles with these then its usually best to leave them turned off
Sharpness should be an exact setting (Possibly 2, one for HD and one for SD deoending on the scaler used etc)
As for Perfect Natural Motion, this is a motion compensation feature that interpolates and adds frames to low frame rate material - i.e. 24fps Blu-ray movies etc. As much of TV, and particularly sport, isshot at 50fps you can turn this feature off for Sky or Freeview.
With regards to sharpness, noise reduction, Mpeg artifact reduction, Colour enhancement: these are all features for improving issues withina picture, where the viewer isn't satisfied. So, if you're not experiencing poor sharpness, washed colours or noise in the picture,they can generally be set to minimum or switched off.
And if the viewer would like an easy way to judge the impact of the overall picture quality processing, they can quickly compare by setting it to the minimum level by selecting cinema mode from the smart settings menu."
I have to disagree with your comment about blurays Andy. Blurays may 'only' be 24fps, but theyre in true progressive. Normal dvds and broadcasts etc are in interlaced which means that it displays half the picture in one frame then the NEXT half of the next frame (2 different frames with 2 different pictures). Its true that motion processing tends to work better on blurays but thats because theyre one whole frame after another with no problems. Interlaced material has the problem of 'deinterlacing' which isnt just fitting each half together, its the fact that the material is converted to work at 50Hz (2:2 and 3:2 cadence depending on what the original material was and what framerate it runs at). Because most motion (probably all actually) processing struggles with these then its usually best to leave them turned off
Sharpness should be an exact setting (Possibly 2, one for HD and one for SD deoending on the scaler used etc)
Ok now i'm worried
Watched relocation, relocation earlier and when the camera pans left or right i can see the same vertical lines as when watching football
Still not sure what to do, do i contact richer sounds, or philips again?
I wonder if any of the What Hi Fi team are reading this can you confirm you have never seen this on your review tv's or indeed Andy's at home?
Oh and Clare i tried using the Cinema settings this ever so slightly reduce the vertical line effect but i think that was more down to the fact that everything was a bit dimer.
Just really confused now and not sure what course of action to take.
Watched relocation, relocation earlier and when the camera pans left or right i can see the same vertical lines as when watching football
Still not sure what to do, do i contact richer sounds, or philips again?
I wonder if any of the What Hi Fi team are reading this can you confirm you have never seen this on your review tv's or indeed Andy's at home?
Oh and Clare i tried using the Cinema settings this ever so slightly reduce the vertical line effect but i think that was more down to the fact that everything was a bit dimer.
Just really confused now and not sure what course of action to take.
No greymack, I have never seen this on my TV at home.
And in response to aliEnRIK:
Perfect Natural Motion is a motion compensation system and has nothing to do with de-interlacing - it is designed to remove judder.
In fact it will work equally with Blu-rays or DVDs because nearly all movie material is originally shot at 24fps. All sets will at least double this and will display 48fps or up to 98fps in the case of 100Hz sets.
However, if you do not add extra interpolated frames you would still be showing the same 24 original frame changes but with individual frames shown twice or four times, so the judder would remain.
And in response to aliEnRIK:
Perfect Natural Motion is a motion compensation system and has nothing to do with de-interlacing - it is designed to remove judder.
In fact it will work equally with Blu-rays or DVDs because nearly all movie material is originally shot at 24fps. All sets will at least double this and will display 48fps or up to 98fps in the case of 100Hz sets.
However, if you do not add extra interpolated frames you would still be showing the same 24 original frame changes but with individual frames shown twice or four times, so the judder would remain.
Cheers Andy
So If you were in my position would you be contacting the retailer to request a replacement?
So If you were in my position would you be contacting the retailer to request a replacement?
Just to add my twopennyworth to this thread I thought you may be interested in my experience with the Philips 9704. This model I suspect is, circuit wise, identical to the 9664 except that it has LED backlighting. Yes I have noticed the same "ghosting" effect on large areas of background during fast camera panning. I have the Perfect Natural Motion set to Max simply because it gives the best picture. To be honest I am not especially bothered. The SD picture via an upscaled (720p) Humax recorder is generally superb. When watching footy I am concentrating on the ball and not the background so I did not notice it until it was pointed out in this thread.
For some reason I have not got this effect on HD (Blueray). As I have yet to acquire off air HD (Freesat, Sky, or Freeview) I can't comment on whether this artifact is apparent on these outputs. But like other viewers I have noticed that programmes broadcast in HD (such as Life) do give a superb SD picture.
For some reason I have not got this effect on HD (Blueray). As I have yet to acquire off air HD (Freesat, Sky, or Freeview) I can't comment on whether this artifact is apparent on these outputs. But like other viewers I have noticed that programmes broadcast in HD (such as Life) do give a superb SD picture.
I suspect the problem has as much to do with the quality of the TV broadcasts as the set itself, but if it stll bothers you, then it's worth talking to your retailer to see if you can get a replacement, assuming your guarantee is still valid.
Andy Clough:
No greymack, I have never seen this on my TV at home.
And in response to aliEnRIK:
Perfect Natural Motion is a motion compensation system and has nothing to do with de-interlacing - it is designed to remove judder.
In fact it will work equally with Blu-rays or DVDs because nearly all movie material is originally shot at 24fps. All sets will at least double this and will display 48fps or up to 98fps in the case of 100Hz sets.
However, if you do not add extra interpolated frames you would still be showing the same 24 original frame changes but with individual frames shown twice or four times, so the judder would remain.
I never said blurays were being deinterlaced (Theyre progressive!)
I said the reason your saying not to use on INTERLACED information was incorrect
And most people find ALL motion processing pretty bad
No greymack, I have never seen this on my TV at home.
And in response to aliEnRIK:
Perfect Natural Motion is a motion compensation system and has nothing to do with de-interlacing - it is designed to remove judder.
In fact it will work equally with Blu-rays or DVDs because nearly all movie material is originally shot at 24fps. All sets will at least double this and will display 48fps or up to 98fps in the case of 100Hz sets.
However, if you do not add extra interpolated frames you would still be showing the same 24 original frame changes but with individual frames shown twice or four times, so the judder would remain.
I never said blurays were being deinterlaced (Theyre progressive!)
I said the reason your saying not to use on INTERLACED information was incorrect
And most people find ALL motion processing pretty bad
Thanks Andy
I've only had the tv for 4 days so yes its intact i'm just unsure as to what to do, another set might be the same, decisions, decisions
I've only had the tv for 4 days so yes its intact i'm just unsure as to what to do, another set might be the same, decisions, decisions
Harrowman, your comment makes me suspect this issue is on all philips lcd's it's just maybe some of us are maybe more picky than others (i'm talking about myself here)
Still if that was the case i would have expected the whathifi team to have spotted it.
Still if that was the case i would have expected the whathifi team to have spotted it.
I still worry what you're describing could be an issue with any LCD.
Our testers spend a lot of time with these sets, viewing a wide range of material - and we do have several testers who can't abide motion-processing ( I myself have had an almost sea-sickness sensation watching some sets with motion-processing enabled!) But the Philips certainly didn't stand out in this way - there's no way we'd have given it product of the year if it had....
But, we are all individuals: the combination of your set-up, the Philips and you yourself seems like it's creating an issue that may only be solved by switching the TV.
Our testers spend a lot of time with these sets, viewing a wide range of material - and we do have several testers who can't abide motion-processing ( I myself have had an almost sea-sickness sensation watching some sets with motion-processing enabled!) But the Philips certainly didn't stand out in this way - there's no way we'd have given it product of the year if it had....
But, we are all individuals: the combination of your set-up, the Philips and you yourself seems like it's creating an issue that may only be solved by switching the TV.
When you say switching the tv Clare do you mean replacing for another Philips 9664, or another make all together?
I'd try the former first to rule out any technical issue with your specific set. If that doesn't cure the problem, maybe its Philips' processing that isn't working for you; try a Sony KDL-40Z5500 instead (but check it hasn't got backlight bleed before you buy!)
Thanks Clare, I have contacted Richer Sounds and i'm awaiting a date for a replacement.
I suppose that will tell me if it was just that tv or it's as you said the combination of my set up.
I'll keep everyone posted with the outcome.
I suppose that will tell me if it was just that tv or it's as you said the combination of my set up.
I'll keep everyone posted with the outcome.
Solved mine this afternoon... I secured a refund on the 9664 and got a Panasonic V10 instead.
I saw another 9664 in another store which offered the same 'feature' of dirty window syndrome and I am simply not prepared to go down this stressful route anymore.
Big shout out to ETS Plymouth staff for their handling of the whole situation.
I'll miss the ambilight though
I saw another 9664 in another store which offered the same 'feature' of dirty window syndrome and I am simply not prepared to go down this stressful route anymore.
Big shout out to ETS Plymouth staff for their handling of the whole situation.
I'll miss the ambilight though
Hey Harmunt
Glad you got sorted.
Do you believe that all 9664's suffer from this dirty window effect or is it a case of your not prepared to gamble anymore on getting a good one?
Glad you got sorted.
Do you believe that all 9664's suffer from this dirty window effect or is it a case of your not prepared to gamble anymore on getting a good one?
greymack:
Hey Harmunt
Glad you got sorted.
Do you believe that all 9664's suffer from this dirty window effect or is it a case of your not prepared to gamble anymore on getting a good one?
It does seem that every 9664 I've seen exhibits this fault. Such a shame as, apart from this dirty screen and it's inability to display decent blacks, it's a really good set.
Hey Harmunt
Glad you got sorted.
Do you believe that all 9664's suffer from this dirty window effect or is it a case of your not prepared to gamble anymore on getting a good one?
It does seem that every 9664 I've seen exhibits this fault. Such a shame as, apart from this dirty screen and it's inability to display decent blacks, it's a really good set.
hey harmunt , id be interested to hear your thoughts on the v10 ???, most reviews put it ahead of the 9664 , whfi apart ...
maxflinn:hey harmunt , id be interested to hear your thoughts on the v10 ???, most reviews put it ahead of the 9664 , whfi apart ...
Ironically the V10 was my first choice of panel to get but I was persuaded otherwise by the WHF Product of the Year for the 9664. It will not arrive until the new year but I'm really looking forward to giving it a good workout!!
True black... Woo Hoo!!
Ironically the V10 was my first choice of panel to get but I was persuaded otherwise by the WHF Product of the Year for the 9664. It will not arrive until the new year but I'm really looking forward to giving it a good workout!!
True black... Woo Hoo!!
Which is why we always urge you to try before you buy! OK, we spend a lot of time comparatively testing TVs, and everyone on the team would have taken the Philips over the Panasonic, but the Pana still has bags of appeal. Enjoy
Must admit the blacks seem fine on my 9664, in fact i watched Con Air last night on SD picture and thought it looked fantastic. Only thing i'm querying is the strange 3D like effect the 9664 creates, it made for some amazing shots but just occasionally it makes the movie look like a made for tv American soap, that probably makes no sense and it's a minor quible.
If i can get the dirty window effect sorted i'll be delighted to keep it..
P.S. Is there a review of the panasonic V10 on What HiFi?
If i can get the dirty window effect sorted i'll be delighted to keep it..
P.S. Is there a review of the panasonic V10 on What HiFi?
Here's the review of the Panasonic.
And I know what you mean about the 3D-ness (?) of the picture; that's a familiar Philips trait - I had a Philips CRT that had the same ultra-real look. Can be startling at first, when you're used to the comparative 'flat' look of so many other TVs. Brings things astonishingly to life, though!
And I know what you mean about the 3D-ness (?) of the picture; that's a familiar Philips trait - I had a Philips CRT that had the same ultra-real look. Can be startling at first, when you're used to the comparative 'flat' look of so many other TVs. Brings things astonishingly to life, though!
Hi Claire and Andy,
I also purchased a 9664 on the basis of your review and I'm not unhappy with it. I'm not sure what the 'watermark' feature is that other people are referring to, but my particular issue with the 9664 is the motion artefacts that you see when the HDNM is set to anything other than OFF.
In your tests, did you come across this at all?
Also, as a follow on question, is it a common Philps feature whereby you cannot have the 200Hz processing feature turned on without having HDNM set to 'Minumum' or 'Maximum'. It seems strange that you cannot turn on the 200Hz processing without the motion processing feature.
Finally, could you advise on the HDMI cables you use in your set-up as this may have a contributing factor?
Thanks for your response in advance.
A.
I also purchased a 9664 on the basis of your review and I'm not unhappy with it. I'm not sure what the 'watermark' feature is that other people are referring to, but my particular issue with the 9664 is the motion artefacts that you see when the HDNM is set to anything other than OFF.
In your tests, did you come across this at all?
Also, as a follow on question, is it a common Philps feature whereby you cannot have the 200Hz processing feature turned on without having HDNM set to 'Minumum' or 'Maximum'. It seems strange that you cannot turn on the 200Hz processing without the motion processing feature.
Finally, could you advise on the HDMI cables you use in your set-up as this may have a contributing factor?
Thanks for your response in advance.
A.
Hi Amardeem
There's plenty of discussion on the 200Hz on/off issue on page 2 of this thread. And FYI, I use a Chord Company Supershield HDMI cable, one of our 2009 Best Buys.
There's plenty of discussion on the 200Hz on/off issue on page 2 of this thread. And FYI, I use a Chord Company Supershield HDMI cable, one of our 2009 Best Buys.
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