Overall I am very happy with my philips 42' 9664 but when I watch football/rugby/cricket, I have noticed when the screen shot moves from side to side quickly (long ball etc) there are about 6 or 7 vertical lines/patches that appear across the screen then disapear when the movement stops, there not clear lines they are more like water marks, this is with sky HD and TV tuner SD. I haven't noticed this watch anything else films normal tv etc, is there a problem with my set or is this normal with LCD's
Philips 9664 problem!
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markiedee
Well-known member
all i can suggest you do when watching sports is to make sure that you have the hd natural motion set to off hope this helps.
I have exactly the same problem, which I posted about a few weeks ago. Sorry to say, but I'm glad I'm not the only one as I was beginning to think I was just being too picky - although after spending £1500 on a tv I think I'm entitled to be a little picky! Question is, what to do now?
Ive had a quick look about and one guy said he saw the EXACT same problem on EVERY philips 9664 (Possibly others too) in EVERY store he went in regardless of settings
Sounds like a major hiccup to me but I cant see philips doing anything about it as they probably dont even know what to change to get it right (And at HUGH expense to them)
Sounds like a major hiccup to me but I cant see philips doing anything about it as they probably dont even know what to change to get it right (And at HUGH expense to them)
Interesting Alienrik. I wonder if the What Hifi team would have one of these tvs hanging around the office and fancy watching a footy game?
Haven't seen this problem on my 9664, nor did the test team when we reviewed it, but will keep an eye out for it over the weekend.
I have noticed the same effect in various scenarios other than sport. It is most obvious when the background is moving quickly in relation to the forground. eg a close-up of people sitting in a car with 'the world' flying by outside the window.
I have noticed it on SKY HD, DVDs & Blu-Rays.
I would honestly says that I believe turning off 'Noise Reduction' made the biggest improvement but turning 'Pixel Perfect' to Mimimum also helped.
However, nothing has eliminated it.
One thing I can say is that after a few weeks I put it down to being something to expect on LCD TVs and now I hardly ever notice it.
AndyA
I have noticed it on SKY HD, DVDs & Blu-Rays.
I would honestly says that I believe turning off 'Noise Reduction' made the biggest improvement but turning 'Pixel Perfect' to Mimimum also helped.
However, nothing has eliminated it.
One thing I can say is that after a few weeks I put it down to being something to expect on LCD TVs and now I hardly ever notice it.
AndyA
It looks like this an issue most 9664 sets then, I only really pay for skyHD to watch the footie, so looks like I'll have to return the set, which is a shame though because apart from this its a great tv. Gutted!
I noticed this effect briefly on my 9664 before it died on me (see Philips 9664 Died after 10 hours thread). If this is a 'feature' of the set I think I may just refuse the replacement... Hmm.
rob_981
Well-known member
andy.angus:
One thing I can say is that after a few weeks I put it down to being something to expect on LCD TVs and now I hardly ever notice it.
AndyA
I definitely wouldn't put it down to being something to expect on LCDs. My older, cheaper LCD has produced none of these effects, and I watch quite a lot of sport on it, and most of it in SD. On a more expensive set like yours, I would think you're entitled to expect better than that.
One thing I can say is that after a few weeks I put it down to being something to expect on LCD TVs and now I hardly ever notice it.
AndyA
I definitely wouldn't put it down to being something to expect on LCDs. My older, cheaper LCD has produced none of these effects, and I watch quite a lot of sport on it, and most of it in SD. On a more expensive set like yours, I would think you're entitled to expect better than that.
To reiterate Andy's point, we've now had several models of this Philips in, with no such problems. But then as we said in our reviews, this set does take a lot of tweaking of its settings to be enjoyed at its best. Processing modes (from all manufacturers) can cause as many problems as they 'solve'...
One thought...you are all using decent cables, aren't you? (Runs for cover...)
One thought...you are all using decent cables, aren't you? (Runs for cover...)
Thanks Clare! I can't speak for the others, but I'm using award winning cables, so they better had be decent!! I am in no position to question you and your team's judgement with your years of experience testing tellys, especially since this is the first LCD/Plasma I've bought, but just to humour me did you test this tv with a football match?
I can accept that the picture articulation can be addressed by turning off natural motion, and I can probably live with some minor backlight bleed, but these faint watermark like lines are a huge irritation and I'm not the only one reporting it here. To reiterate our point, I can't detect it when watching anything other than sport played on grass and it is present with both SD and HD transmissions.
I can accept that the picture articulation can be addressed by turning off natural motion, and I can probably live with some minor backlight bleed, but these faint watermark like lines are a huge irritation and I'm not the only one reporting it here. To reiterate our point, I can't detect it when watching anything other than sport played on grass and it is present with both SD and HD transmissions.
If it helps, here are the settings we used when testing the 9664 which gave us the best results:
Contrast: 90
Brightness: 48
Colour: 50
Sharpness: 3
Noise reduction: Off
Tint: Normal
Within Perfect Pixel HD sub-menu
Perfect Natural Motion: Minimum
200Hz Clear LCD: On
Advanced Sharpness: Off
Dynamic Contrast: Off
Dynamic Backlight: Best pic
MPEG artefact reduction: Off
Colour Enhancement: Off
Light sensor: Off
Contrast: 90
Brightness: 48
Colour: 50
Sharpness: 3
Noise reduction: Off
Tint: Normal
Within Perfect Pixel HD sub-menu
Perfect Natural Motion: Minimum
200Hz Clear LCD: On
Advanced Sharpness: Off
Dynamic Contrast: Off
Dynamic Backlight: Best pic
MPEG artefact reduction: Off
Colour Enhancement: Off
Light sensor: Off
Sorry Guys - I want to change my story.
I have got home and turned off Perfect Natural Motion.
That seems to cure it for me.
The only problem is that 200Hz goes off at the same time. Which seems a pity!
AndyA
I have got home and turned off Perfect Natural Motion.
That seems to cure it for me.
The only problem is that 200Hz goes off at the same time. Which seems a pity!
AndyA
j4mm3r
Well-known member
Just a quick question for andy, i cant work out your settings you posted!
you state perfect pixel: minimum and hdnm: off - on my menu i have perfect natural motion with options of off/minimum/maximum, is this the perfect pixel option if so what is hdnm? are they not the same thing? my menu displays perfect natural motion then 200hz, which you cant switch on if perfect natural motion is set to off.
regarding the other users comments about lines/patches when watching sports, i havent watched football in hd but ive watched loads of sd football on bbc and itv and ive not noticed any issues whatsoever and initially i switched between having perfect natural motion on and off as the set was new and i wanted to see what effect it had on the picture.
i was only thinking the other day what a stunning picture quality i was viewing and that was in sd, perhaps the issues others are having is down to the individual set rather than a general tv fault.
you state perfect pixel: minimum and hdnm: off - on my menu i have perfect natural motion with options of off/minimum/maximum, is this the perfect pixel option if so what is hdnm? are they not the same thing? my menu displays perfect natural motion then 200hz, which you cant switch on if perfect natural motion is set to off.
regarding the other users comments about lines/patches when watching sports, i havent watched football in hd but ive watched loads of sd football on bbc and itv and ive not noticed any issues whatsoever and initially i switched between having perfect natural motion on and off as the set was new and i wanted to see what effect it had on the picture.
i was only thinking the other day what a stunning picture quality i was viewing and that was in sd, perhaps the issues others are having is down to the individual set rather than a general tv fault.
so with everything turned of you basically get what a 5 series can give you and cost half..I actually like the 5 series more even with some judder .
j4mm3r:
Just a quick question for andy, i cant work out your settings you posted!
you state perfect pixel: minimum and hdnm: off - on my menu i have perfect natural motion with options of off/minimum/maximum, is this the perfect pixel option if so what is hdnm? are they not the same thing? my menu displays perfect natural motion then 200hz, which you cant switch on if perfect natural motion is set to off.
I have the same question as j4mm3r. Andy could you please expain these settings. I turn perfect natural motion off because I cant bear the shimmering or motion artifacts, and I was wondering if u were doing something extra to make the picture better. My original assumption was that perfect pixel = HDNM but you have different settings for each, and that HDNM has to be on to allow 200HZ to be on. Andy could you please reply
Many thanks
Just a quick question for andy, i cant work out your settings you posted!
you state perfect pixel: minimum and hdnm: off - on my menu i have perfect natural motion with options of off/minimum/maximum, is this the perfect pixel option if so what is hdnm? are they not the same thing? my menu displays perfect natural motion then 200hz, which you cant switch on if perfect natural motion is set to off.
I have the same question as j4mm3r. Andy could you please expain these settings. I turn perfect natural motion off because I cant bear the shimmering or motion artifacts, and I was wondering if u were doing something extra to make the picture better. My original assumption was that perfect pixel = HDNM but you have different settings for each, and that HDNM has to be on to allow 200HZ to be on. Andy could you please reply
Many thanks
You can have 200Hz on or off whether you have Natural Motion on or off, it's just that with NM off the 200Hz option is greyed out so you can't change it for some reason. I have had it on with NM off though - I just did it this minute. You just have to set NM on, make sure 200Hz is set to on, then turn NM off (so 200Hz goes grey). 200hz should say on and indeed stay on!.
Not good news! The 42" 9664 is on my 'potential' list, near the top. Do you think the same applies to the 7404?
j4mm3r
Well-known member
Hi Badamz, hows it going? How you getting on with the tv?
I'm not grasping the nettle with this natural motion / 200hz setting, ive just switched perfect natural motion to minimum then turned 200hz on, when i turn the motion off and go back to 200hz both on and off are greyed out! how can we tell the 200hz is on?
Just going off subject and trying not to hijack yet another thread! i notice u have a ps3 and use for blu ray, how u finding picture quality on bd, i was thinking of getting either a 360 or ps3 for crimbo, the blu ray drive on the ps3 is tempting me more, thus saving on buying a blu ray player.
cheers
I'm not grasping the nettle with this natural motion / 200hz setting, ive just switched perfect natural motion to minimum then turned 200hz on, when i turn the motion off and go back to 200hz both on and off are greyed out! how can we tell the 200hz is on?
Just going off subject and trying not to hijack yet another thread! i notice u have a ps3 and use for blu ray, how u finding picture quality on bd, i was thinking of getting either a 360 or ps3 for crimbo, the blu ray drive on the ps3 is tempting me more, thus saving on buying a blu ray player.
cheers
To be perfectly honest mate - I've had better weeks. Let's just say I'm about to report my next door neighbour to the Police and leave it at that.
Yes 200Hz does grey out, but it does stay highlighted on, even though greyed out (blue glow?). I saw this on a Philips review on-line - not a 9664 though and tried it. You can see it is on or off and it shows itself to be on with NM off right now on my set (though with my current viewing it is hard to say what 200Hz is doing if I'm honest).
Our living room has needed far more work than I thought and so we are still just watching SD Sky through the SCART and DVDs on the Sony DVDR (and putting up with those dancing edges). The PS3 has had to be tucked away for Christmas and the Denon is sitting in it's box. I expected to have it all done by now, but at least another week and a half I think (as long as it's done for Christmas). I did notice Clare (on another thread about a Samsung this week) saying the PS3 was probably responsible for the motion insues he was having while watching BR, so maybe it's not the best, but it will do for a few months.
I would base your choice of console purely on the games you want. We have had 360's for yonks (and despite one ring of death) we do like them. We got a PS3 because we got an extreme bargain (a new slim 250GB for only just over £200), but (for us) there are far less games for it. Many games are multi-format, but we like the XBOX exclusives more than the the PS3 ones. Others will differ - and this is just us, but we don't like Gran Turismo or Metal Gear Solid, but we love Gears Of War and Halo (and Crackdown co-op over 2 consoles). I would favour a 360 and a standalone BR player (even the budget Sony is better than a PS3), but if you want to play online for free or favour those PS3 titles then look for a bargain.
How are you getting on with your properly connected telly?
Yes 200Hz does grey out, but it does stay highlighted on, even though greyed out (blue glow?). I saw this on a Philips review on-line - not a 9664 though and tried it. You can see it is on or off and it shows itself to be on with NM off right now on my set (though with my current viewing it is hard to say what 200Hz is doing if I'm honest).
Our living room has needed far more work than I thought and so we are still just watching SD Sky through the SCART and DVDs on the Sony DVDR (and putting up with those dancing edges). The PS3 has had to be tucked away for Christmas and the Denon is sitting in it's box. I expected to have it all done by now, but at least another week and a half I think (as long as it's done for Christmas). I did notice Clare (on another thread about a Samsung this week) saying the PS3 was probably responsible for the motion insues he was having while watching BR, so maybe it's not the best, but it will do for a few months.
I would base your choice of console purely on the games you want. We have had 360's for yonks (and despite one ring of death) we do like them. We got a PS3 because we got an extreme bargain (a new slim 250GB for only just over £200), but (for us) there are far less games for it. Many games are multi-format, but we like the XBOX exclusives more than the the PS3 ones. Others will differ - and this is just us, but we don't like Gran Turismo or Metal Gear Solid, but we love Gears Of War and Halo (and Crackdown co-op over 2 consoles). I would favour a 360 and a standalone BR player (even the budget Sony is better than a PS3), but if you want to play online for free or favour those PS3 titles then look for a bargain.
How are you getting on with your properly connected telly?
j4mm3r
Well-known member
thanks for reply, interesting you mention blue glow and or it stays highlighted, i didnt get any of that last night, perhaps its because its fed through my reciever? the on/off looks just greyed out, no glow or apparant highlight. not that im having any issues with motion, i just didnt understand andy's settings. I'll have another play but it appears to be off when nm is off.
refering to the 360/ps3 i agree that the 360 has better games and in general a lot more out, ive played gran turismo & metal gear solid to death on the ps1 - move on sony! also alot of games sites say although the ps3 on paper is more powerful, the games run smoother on the 360 & look better, something to do with programers struggling to take advantage of the ps3 power?
I was hoping ud say the ps3 would be adequate for both games & bluray but deep down i knew i'd have to splash the cash!
Once you get sky connected to your tv with hdmi, i look forward to you posting on here the difference in picture, im loving mine, sd broadcasts particually new ones look just brillant, really detailed, noise free and crisp, must be better than scart mate!
refering to the 360/ps3 i agree that the 360 has better games and in general a lot more out, ive played gran turismo & metal gear solid to death on the ps1 - move on sony! also alot of games sites say although the ps3 on paper is more powerful, the games run smoother on the 360 & look better, something to do with programers struggling to take advantage of the ps3 power?
I was hoping ud say the ps3 would be adequate for both games & bluray but deep down i knew i'd have to splash the cash!
Once you get sky connected to your tv with hdmi, i look forward to you posting on here the difference in picture, im loving mine, sd broadcasts particually new ones look just brillant, really detailed, noise free and crisp, must be better than scart mate!
Well, you know I am honest! Here is a cut and paste from the Samsung thread I mentioned (Clare)
"Leaving aside the TV settings (which I feel being set at max won't necessarily help), i'd point the finger at your PS3. The biggest and best TV sets ruthlessly expose the issues the PlayStation 3 can have with Blu-ray motion-handling - something you may not notice on a smaller, less capable set.
The good news is that even a budget dedicated player - such as Sony's own S360 - offer a smoother experience... "
I think that makes the point, but the choice of console is obviously down to games taste. I am not a fanboy for any system as I've owned many since my first Binatone paddle tennis console in the late 70's. I have several Nintendo systems (never miss a Mario or a Zelda though most Wii stuff is so family-made-for). I have had all the PlayStations, Xbox & Dreamcast and many 80s things (Speccie, C64, Amiga). I just don't think the PS3 is as much a 'gamer's console as the 360 (I don't say that to wind up any PS3 owners as I am one!). I have also seen first-hand that some PS3 titles do not match the 360 version. It is obviously not the power of the system, but difficulties of time and tech as you say. Killzone 2 looks better than 360 games however and clearly exploits the PS3 well. It is not as good a game as 360 FPS's though. Banjo Kazooie Nuts and Bolts Nutty Acres (360) is like a Pixar movie - stunning.
As to the menus - If you go on Flickr.com and do a search on the tag 'adamzrayney' (don't ask, but spell it right) you will see my photo account (Lord_Terchopants). I have added a photo of the 200Hz/NM menu on my TV. You will also see my other half takes pictures of toys - no she is not a typical woman in her late 30s!
I look forward to updating you with the improvments for Yule.....
"Leaving aside the TV settings (which I feel being set at max won't necessarily help), i'd point the finger at your PS3. The biggest and best TV sets ruthlessly expose the issues the PlayStation 3 can have with Blu-ray motion-handling - something you may not notice on a smaller, less capable set.
The good news is that even a budget dedicated player - such as Sony's own S360 - offer a smoother experience... "
I think that makes the point, but the choice of console is obviously down to games taste. I am not a fanboy for any system as I've owned many since my first Binatone paddle tennis console in the late 70's. I have several Nintendo systems (never miss a Mario or a Zelda though most Wii stuff is so family-made-for). I have had all the PlayStations, Xbox & Dreamcast and many 80s things (Speccie, C64, Amiga). I just don't think the PS3 is as much a 'gamer's console as the 360 (I don't say that to wind up any PS3 owners as I am one!). I have also seen first-hand that some PS3 titles do not match the 360 version. It is obviously not the power of the system, but difficulties of time and tech as you say. Killzone 2 looks better than 360 games however and clearly exploits the PS3 well. It is not as good a game as 360 FPS's though. Banjo Kazooie Nuts and Bolts Nutty Acres (360) is like a Pixar movie - stunning.
As to the menus - If you go on Flickr.com and do a search on the tag 'adamzrayney' (don't ask, but spell it right) you will see my photo account (Lord_Terchopants). I have added a photo of the 200Hz/NM menu on my TV. You will also see my other half takes pictures of toys - no she is not a typical woman in her late 30s!
I look forward to updating you with the improvments for Yule.....
j4mm3r
Well-known member
badamz thanks for that. interesting picture, i certainly dont get that 'on' in blue i know for sure, and whats more my motion setting is called perfect natural motion not hd natural motion! whats that about
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