steve_1979
Well-known member
Alberich said:
Which model of ADM9 are they?
It's worth getting the ADM9 'RS' ones if you can. The later models with 'RS' or 'RSS' in the name have better bass than the earlier versions.
Which model of ADM9 are they?
It's worth getting the ADM9 'RS' ones if you can. The later models with 'RS' or 'RSS' in the name have better bass than the earlier versions.
steve_1979
Well-known member
lpv said:
Although you probably wouldn't have noticed it when listening to each speakers separately, the AVI tweeter does sound slightly smoother and clearer on the DM10 than it does on the DM5. It's probably due to the steeper 8th order crossover in the DM10 that does it.
It's only a slight difference which was unnoticeable until I setup the DM10 and DM5 right next to each other and did an instantaneous A/B switch while playing music.
steve_1979
Well-known member
MUSICRAFT said:
It's a fantastic piece of kit. I never use the video functions. I just use it as an audio only DAC and 2.1 pre-amp because it allows for easy adjustment of the subwoofer and has a volume display which the DM10s lack.
It only cost £8 off eBay too. I tried several more expensive 2.1 DAC/pre-amp options ranging from £180 to £350 and non of them quite worked for me for one reason or another. The Yamaha is ideal though. It's simple to use (AVRs had less functions back in 2001 which for my needs is actually a bonus), it seems to have slightly better build quality than modern AVRs and the sound from the 'pre-outs' is top notch. Coincidentally I compared the DAC section to my NJC DAC last night using an instantanious A/B swap and the old Yamaha sounds identical.
p.s. Sorry for the thread drift everyone.
Alberich said:
Even older versions are very good value for a few hundred quid, but the latest models are quite a bit above the nines in sq. I have DM5s and they are clearly superior to my original ADM9s, especially regarding smoothness of treble and soundstaging. Also the bottom end is better controlled.
But even the RS don't actually say RS on the back. Sometimes it's indicated by a red spot sticker!
thewinelake. said:
True. First thing to check is does it have one (original ADM9) or two (later) optical inputs. RS does stand for Red Spot but that spot is/was just a round red sticker, so might not have stuck... You may want to go over to hddaudio.net to ask for advice on visual clues (driver appearance). Still, even the non-RS are a bargain at 400 for a DAC/Pre/Active Speakers.
lpv, so do you agree with me that it's misleading to describe your AVI speaker as having 250 watts output whilst describing the Hegel H360 as 250 watts also - with no provisos?lpv said:
If we're describing the H360 as 250 watts (which it is into 8 ohms continuous)
then we should describe the AVI as c70 watts (which it is into 8 ohms continuous)
If we're describing the AVI as 250 watts (which it might be for instant peaks into 4 ohms)
then we should describe the Hegel H360 as c700 watts (which is the ballpark region for what it will be for intstant peaks into 4 ohms)
It was totally misleading to use the peak 4 ohm output of one amplifier compared against the 8 ohm continuous output of another amplifier.
chebby
Well-known member
Why point fingers at customers for misleading figures?
Without test facilities / equipment we all have to accept the specifications given by manufacturers.
If any misleading is going on it's not going to be the consumer is it?
Challenge the designer and manufacturer if you know they are misleading people. Don't pick on their customers.
AVI have a forum too. I suggest you join it and ask the owner these questions. He answers queries in person AFAIK.
Without test facilities / equipment we all have to accept the specifications given by manufacturers.
If any misleading is going on it's not going to be the consumer is it?
Challenge the designer and manufacturer if you know they are misleading people. Don't pick on their customers.
AVI have a forum too. I suggest you join it and ask the owner these questions. He answers queries in person AFAIK.
Morgunner said:
They are exceptional value but they get consistently better with each incarnation.
Earlier models have a leaner bass response than the later ones, whether that works for you will depend on your room and what you expect/want recorded music to sound like. Coming from conventional hi-fi speakers with their deliberately 'warm' sound might prove a difficult transition.
If your setup has decent, usable eq then you should have no real problem, a touch of bass boost will do the job very nicely.
steve_1979
Well-known member
Alberich said:
While they're a significant step behind the current DM10 or newer ADM9 RS's they're still a brilliant speaker and will give you a taste of what active AVIs offer.
For £400 they're a bargin of a speaker. Especially if you compare them to what else is available for £400.
Roger_A
Well-known member
spiny norman said:
They'd have to try hard to make them out of phase as there's no speaker cables to get mixed up - another advantage, albeit minor, of active speakers that I hadn't thought of before. *scratch_one-s_head*
Roger
Chebby I have been responding to what has been written in this thread.
I have been playing the ball, not the man.
Do you really want me to join a forum where the owner has already deeply insulted me personally?
I completely disagree with this statement: "Without test facilities / equipment we all have to accept the specifications given by manufacturers." Because: 1 we can refer to reputable independent tests. 2 we can use common sense and our knowledge and experience. 3 we can use our ears.
I have been playing the ball, not the man.
Do you really want me to join a forum where the owner has already deeply insulted me personally?
I completely disagree with this statement: "Without test facilities / equipment we all have to accept the specifications given by manufacturers." Because: 1 we can refer to reputable independent tests. 2 we can use common sense and our knowledge and experience. 3 we can use our ears.
Romulus
Well-known member
lpv said:
I note what you say, but I still have no assurance whether for example a DM10 will work well with a turntable or streaming. I have read the website, and its own forum. The testimonials are without names or addresses (I could of written them all) and I don't think AVI do no satisfaction money return policy like Mana Acoustics used to do. But on the other hand I believe the integrity of the contributors on this thread and I am impressed that Adrewjvt was so taken by AVI DM10, considering what he compared with the Hegel H360 & ACT SCM 11 . I just wonder what he would make of the ACT 11 SCM 19A with Hegel H360 (Active ACT) compared to AVI DM10, taking into consideration ofcourse the differences ratio in prices of the two active systems..?
Roger_A said:
Assembly errors in either the internal wiring of the speakers or the cables used to connect them to the source could make one speaker out of phase with the other. Of course, I'm not suggesting this would even happen with AVI speakers, as we all know they are created by gods, who are by their very nature infallible; I'm just making the point that it's perfectly possible even for active speakers (yes, I know, incredible, isn't it?) to be out of phase.
chebby
Well-known member
Romulus said:lpv said:
There are no assurances in life.
Testimonials should not have names and addresses because then people will come and steal their stuff and/or use the information to stalk them or help to steal identities.
'Could have' not 'could of'.
It's ATC not 'ACT'.
ATC SCM 19as are about £5000 a pair. (With no built-in DAC or pre-amp.) Thats probably why Andrew hasn't compared them! Maybe he isn't your personal equipment tester
plastic penguin
Well-known member
IMO Andrew's and IPV's appraisal is totally unhelpful after seeing the pictures of where and how the ATCs were sat.
In another thread IPV said the ATCs were ".congested, thick & distorted. not analitical and not smooth" Not surprising they sounded 'wrong' given they were sat on a wheelless tea trolley.
In another thread IPV said the ATCs were ".congested, thick & distorted. not analitical and not smooth" Not surprising they sounded 'wrong' given they were sat on a wheelless tea trolley.
Fwiw I listened to the Avi dm9 when they came out.
They had an amazingly solid stereo image/soundstage where I could easily identify where the instruments were placed and how big they were. I was 2nd to none.
The clarity of the speakers was also very good. This resulted in good recordings and instruments sounding uncannily realistic. The adverse part of the same story is that electronic sounds sounded artificial and bad recordings really sounded unbearable to my ears.
Imo the treble was extended. The bass had a quick rolloff. The combination of these 2 resulted in a sound that was very clear but with an emphasis on the mid/treble with not much bass.
Still there strenths are considerable and if the new dm10 have improved their bass extension, a very nice proposition indeed.
They had an amazingly solid stereo image/soundstage where I could easily identify where the instruments were placed and how big they were. I was 2nd to none.
The clarity of the speakers was also very good. This resulted in good recordings and instruments sounding uncannily realistic. The adverse part of the same story is that electronic sounds sounded artificial and bad recordings really sounded unbearable to my ears.
Imo the treble was extended. The bass had a quick rolloff. The combination of these 2 resulted in a sound that was very clear but with an emphasis on the mid/treble with not much bass.
Still there strenths are considerable and if the new dm10 have improved their bass extension, a very nice proposition indeed.
Just a few points
1. Stereo image is wide because of impeccable phase behaviours in crossover region and the box is small.
2. The DM5s were designed for use with Sonos or Apple and AEX. Most do everything via phones or tablets now, but Apple seems the favourite. Just lately we've had a few Brennan users perhaps because of the review in Gramophone.
3. DM10s are more versatile because they have two digital and one analogue input and remote control. Record players need a separate RIAA phono stage and lots of customers use them.
4. Customer reviews are genuine and there are thousands because we've sold thousands over ten years.
5. ADM9RS was a completely new speaker and had different crossover and different drivers, so quite a lot better than earlier models and a lot more bass too.
6. DM10 was another totally new speaker with a specially designed bass driver and a full 8th order crossover. It has the same bass extension as the ADM9RS, but a smoother more detailed mid range and better stereo image.
The sound is extremely accurate and neutral and very powerful. Therefore the benefits are most obvious with Classical Music, Jazz, big band, folk, acoustic music and voice, Bluegrass or just rock intended to sound real. Lots of sound engineers in this area use them.
Se days hi fi is what dads had and most are coming to us from headphones, so have a more critical reference so they love DMs because they compare favourably. I use Sennheiser HD800s as my reference.
They won't suit everyone, but of the above are your thing, then try them.
Ash
1. Stereo image is wide because of impeccable phase behaviours in crossover region and the box is small.
2. The DM5s were designed for use with Sonos or Apple and AEX. Most do everything via phones or tablets now, but Apple seems the favourite. Just lately we've had a few Brennan users perhaps because of the review in Gramophone.
3. DM10s are more versatile because they have two digital and one analogue input and remote control. Record players need a separate RIAA phono stage and lots of customers use them.
4. Customer reviews are genuine and there are thousands because we've sold thousands over ten years.
5. ADM9RS was a completely new speaker and had different crossover and different drivers, so quite a lot better than earlier models and a lot more bass too.
6. DM10 was another totally new speaker with a specially designed bass driver and a full 8th order crossover. It has the same bass extension as the ADM9RS, but a smoother more detailed mid range and better stereo image.
The sound is extremely accurate and neutral and very powerful. Therefore the benefits are most obvious with Classical Music, Jazz, big band, folk, acoustic music and voice, Bluegrass or just rock intended to sound real. Lots of sound engineers in this area use them.
Se days hi fi is what dads had and most are coming to us from headphones, so have a more critical reference so they love DMs because they compare favourably. I use Sennheiser HD800s as my reference.
They won't suit everyone, but of the above are your thing, then try them.
Ash
just a reminder - I owned Atc 11s, 19s and most recently 40 active floorstanders with Atc pre amp, all properly set up, run in and on solid stands in case of 11s and 19s with top class amps from Electro and Atc.. and I still prefer Avi's.. best stands in the world wouldn't magically add clarity that's not available in the first place
plastic penguin
Well-known member
lpv said:
I understand that. Totally get you are smitten by the AVIs. No issues there.
The biggest problem I have is with the ATCs on less than adequate stands where the drivers are pointing towards the ceiling. No speaker is designed for that, and as it's not a like-for-like comparison I am naturally going to cast doubt on the comparison.
I'm not saying for one moment the AVIs are deficient, just an unfair dem. On top notch stands those ATCs will no doubt, as with any quality standmount speaker, will produce an awful lot more.
At least when I had the LS50s on home dem a few months ago they were set-up on my stands (however good or bad they might be) so I've got a definite comparison - something that's not gerrymandered to suit ones needs.
plastic penguin
Well-known member
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