passive set up v active set up

[MUSICRAFT]

We never used the sub as i could not feel its effects. Only at end did we use sub.

So you never used the sub as you could not feel its effects but on the other hand only at end you used the sub even though you could couldn't feel its effects *ROFL*

So much for lippy's comment about not magically adding that's not avaialble in the first place *biggrin*

Btw, i must commend you two for the motions you went through before your presentation. Well done chaps

 

[lindsayt]

Just a few points

Listen to the banned.

I totally agree Spiny. Ashley has already been banned from this forum.

I think his latest user ID on this forum should be banned.

After all, what's the point of banning someone if they just leave it for a while and then create another user ID to get round the ban?

 

[lindsayt]

The AVI forum is corrupt -- they have a way of brainwashing anyone who goes against the grain.

Yeeessss maaaaster...

after that comment, perhaps PP stands for Parliamentary Privilege.

Richard, your sole contribution to this thread has been to make a personal insult.

I think that's really poor form.

 

[davedotco]

Wonderful...*good*

I am really warming to this thread, it's great, no need to hold back, tell us what you really think...!

BTW Don't let the fact that you have never heard the ADMs get in the way, just go for it.

 

[Andrewjvt]

Taken from another atc active scm50A owner and dm10 owner directly comparing them in same room.

For all the people falsely accusing myself and darius of being dishonest about the results. See if you can spot the same results:

From: UK PM

Let's call this a review:

It's been 2.5 months now since I got the DM10s. After initial 'trials' in the living room, whete I have tried them on their own and with ATC C4 sub, I have moved them to their intended place - the bedroom. They are fed via Arplay iMac to AEX, optical. If anyone remembers, the initial issue was hum at this location. This is fully resolved by simply plugging into a different wall outlet on the other side of the room.

The sound is superb, what I would call very high quality, characterised by impressive clarity, excellent imaging, low distortion (including at high levels), excellent dynamics and power. Highly enjoyable experience, especially with good recordings of real voices and real instruments.

Bass is clean and appropriate for the size. Easily integrating with a sub, which makes the setup 'full range'. The mids and highs are very clean and realistic. I would call the tonal balance neutral.

The features I miss is an indicator of current volume level and remote and/or signal sensing power on/off.

Overall - very happy, as expected. And highly recommended (to those who are seeking neutral, realistic, low distortion sound).

From: UK PM

Forgot to add:

Comparing with ATC SCM 50 A, my current benchmark:
Clarity - comparable, slightly better on the DM10s
Imaging - significantly better on the DM10s
Dynamic range - not a fair comparison due to size difference, ATCs much higher
Bass quality - similar (excellent definition)
Bass quantity - not a fair comparison due to size difference. Comparable if used with sub.

Compared to (the smaller) Genelec 6010a:
DM10 are better in all areas

 

[chebby]

Just a few points

Listen to the banned.

That and the fact that industry members are not supposed to promote their products and should have a signature that makes their trade status clear.

But there are no forum rules any more and there is no moderation, so I guess it's open season.

 

[Muddywaterstones]

As someone looking at buying new speakers I find this debate fascinating. I wouldn't have considered active speakers at all. Now I'm wondering.

But I'm also keep wondering about the books. I keep coming back to this unknown factor. What density were they? How was the colomn built? Was there any glue between the different levels? Who were the authors?

Say for instance: Julian Barnes might be considered more dense than Irvine Welsh in terms of his use of language etc. Or Salman Rushdie might be considered quite dense for drawing down a fatwa for a dull book that was practically impossible to read, bar a few inspired passages.

What effect does it all have? Can one stack something warm and fuzzy like a Kathy Kelly novel (Bose: voiced to appeal to as many people as possible) with stuff like James Kelman (Tannoy: real ******* Scottish-like). How does it all work?

 

[Andrewjvt]

As someone looking at buying new speakers I find this debate fascinating. I wouldn't have considered active speakers at all. Now I'm wondering.

But I'm also keep wondering about the books. I keep coming back to this unknown factor. What density were they? How was the colomn built? Was there any glue between the different levels? Who were the authors?

Say for instance: Julian Barnes might be considered more dense than Irvine Welsh in terms of his use of language etc. Or Salman Rushdie might be considered quite dense for drawing down a fatwa for a dull book that was practically impossible to read, bar a few inspired passages. 

What effect does it all have? Can one stack something warm and fuzzy like a Kathy Kelly novel (Bose: voiced to appeal to as many people as possible) with stuff like James Kelman (Tannoy: real ******* Scottish-like). How does it all work?

 

It was not wilbur smith.
Have a listen to these speakers they are great.

 

[CnoEvil]

For all the people falsely accusing myself and darius of being dishonest about the results. See if you can spot the same results:

I'm not sure that is the case....there has just been comments about the talents of the ATCs not being fully maximized.

 

[lpv]

just use bible upside down with half pages missing in a language you can't understand and written backwards

 

[Muddywaterstones]

English will probably work fine so...............

 

[Andrewjvt]

For all the people falsely accusing myself and darius of being dishonest about the results. See if you can spot the same results:

I'm not sure that is the case....there has just been comments about the talents of the ATCs not being fully maximized.

But i did not mean you anyway. Your the last person on here to be like that. IMO The stands were very solid though i really did not even give it a thought.

If any one of us thought that it would be detrimentel to the sound we would not have posted pictures.

Im not selling my atcs so when i get dm10s then ill do another comparison and anyone is welcome to come and listen also and see what they think as its all personal still.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

We never used the sub as i could not feel its effects. Only at end did we use sub.

So you never used the sub as you could not feel its effects but on the other hand only at end you used the sub even though you could couldn't feel its effects *ROFL*

So much for lippy's comment about not magically adding that's not avaialble in the first place *biggrin*

how does it feel to ridicule someone in public who left in your shop few thousand pounds?

Let me guess that since then and with your help he has been magically turned him into an angel on here.

 

[lpv]

Im not selling my atcs so when i get dm10s then ill do another comparison and anyone is welcome to come and listen also and see what they think as its all personal still.

excellent Andrew ! I wonder if any of the armchair fighters would actually come...

 

[lpv]

We never used the sub as i could not feel its effects. Only at end did we use sub.

So you never used the sub as you could not feel its effects but on the other hand only at end you used the sub even though you could couldn't feel its effects *ROFL*

So much for lippy's comment about not magically adding that's not avaialble in the first place *biggrin*

how does it feel to ridicule someone in public who left in your shop few thousand pounds?

Let me guess that since then and with your help he has been magically turned him into an angel on here.

answer the question

 

[Muddywaterstones]

As someone looking at buying new speakers I find this debate fascinating. I wouldn't have considered active speakers at all. Now I'm wondering.

But I'm also keep wondering about the books. I keep coming back to this unknown factor. What density were they? How was the colomn built? Was there any glue between the different levels? Who were the authors?

Say for instance: Julian Barnes might be considered more dense than Irvine Welsh in terms of his use of language etc. Or Salman Rushdie might be considered quite dense for drawing down a fatwa for a dull book that was practically impossible to read, bar a few inspired passages.

What effect does it all have? Can one stack something warm and fuzzy like a Kathy Kelly novel (Bose: voiced to appeal to as many people as possible) with stuff like James Kelman (Tannoy: real ******* Scottish-like). How does it all work?

It was not wilbur smith. Have a listen to these speakers they are great.

I don't know his stuff but Coetzee ain' t half bad. No idea if I can track down these exact speakers. I'm domiciled in France.

 

[Andrewjvt]

Im not selling my atcs so when i get dm10s then ill do another comparison and anyone is welcome to come and listen also and see what they think as its all personal still.

excellent Andrew ! I wonder if any of the armchair fighters would actually come...

I think 50% if honest would easy see the qualities.
Id like the real experienced people on here with very expensive systems to hear them and also comment and see what they say.

 

[Infiniteloop]

Im not selling my atcs so when i get dm10s then ill do another comparison and anyone is welcome to come and listen also and see what they think as its all personal still.

excellent Andrew ! I wonder if any of the armchair fighters would actually come...

I think 50% if honest would easy see the qualities. Id like the real experienced people on here with very expensive systems to hear them and also comment and see what they say.

My systems are modest but I'd be up for it. *smile*

 

[Blacksabbath25]

For all the people falsely accusing myself and darius of being dishonest about the results. See if you can spot the same results:

I'm not sure that is the case....there has just been comments about the talents of the ATCs not being fully maximized.

I do not think Andrew is being dishonest .

i would have liked of seen some more hours on Andrew's speakers before comparing the 2

and I still think given the right setup I think the passive speakers would of give the active speakers a run for there money but hay it's only my opinion ! Here

maybe you 2 should get together again ones Andrew has had around 150 hours run-in time with his speakers and then put Andrew's speakers on some good stands and then see .

 

[davedotco]

For all the people falsely accusing myself and darius of being dishonest about the results. See if you can spot the same results:

I'm not sure that is the case....there has just been comments about the talents of the ATCs not being fully maximized.

Sometimes a comparison is so obvious, the details do not matter.

If you compare a vinyl front end with a digital one, you do not need a system set up to the nth degree, almost any compedent, budget system will tell you that there is a fundamental difference between the two.

It is a similar situation when you compare active and passive designs, the difference is obvious...!

Now you may prefer the passive system over the active one, that is entirely up to you, but the conclusions of the original comparison (remember that, at the beginning of the thread...) was that the active option was clearer, more explicit and had greater presence.

I often describe the difference in similar terms, some find this forward, aggressive or fatiguing, each to their own, but for those who 'get it', who relate to these qualities in a positive way, then the switch back to passive designs is really difficult.

 

[lpv]

Id like the real experienced people on here with very expensive systems to hear them and also comment and see what they say.

same me... we should probably do it again but now blind test, matched levels, proper stands for atc's, A/B switch box etc.. maybe some would simply shut up.. or maybe the armchair warriors would spot something in the pictures that went otherwise unnoticed

 

[MUSICRAFT]

We never used the sub as i could not feel its effects. Only at end did we use sub.

So you never used the sub as you could not feel its effects but on the other hand only at end you used the sub even though you could couldn't feel its effects *ROFL*

So much for lippy's comment about not magically adding that's not avaialble in the first place *biggrin*

how does it feel to ridicule someone in public who left in your shop few thousand pounds?

Let me guess that since then and with your help he has been magically turned him into an angel on here.

answer the question

Go figure guardian angel.

 

[lindsayt]

Im not selling my atcs so when i get dm10s then ill do another comparison and anyone is welcome to come and listen also and see what they think as its all personal still.

Please PM me when you're ready. You'll probably have to do it via one of the other forums that I'm active on.

 

[Andrewjvt]

Im not selling my atcs so when i get dm10s then ill do another comparison and anyone is welcome to come and listen also and see what they think as its all personal still.

Please PM me when you're ready. You'll probably have to do it via one of the other forums that I'm active on.

Ok no worries

 

[Andrewjvt]

For all the people falsely accusing myself and darius of being dishonest about the results. See if you can spot the same results:

I'm not sure that is the case....there has just been comments about the talents of the ATCs not being fully maximized.

I do not think Andrew is being dishonest .

i would have liked  of seen some more hours on Andrew's speakers before comparing the 2 

and I still think given the right setup I think the passive speakers would of give the active speakers a run for there money but hay it's only my opinion ! Here 

maybe you 2 should  get together again ones Andrew has had around 150 hours run-in time with his speakers and then put Andrew's speakers on some good stands and then see .

If you came to my house and listened to my amp and speakers and how good it sounds youd be gobsmacked.

But thats not the issue here.

Have a read up on the internet regards advantages of active over passive.

Now there are bad sounding actives also.

But if you say compare atc scm100 passive v atcscm100 active 95% of people imo after getting used to the sound would not go back to a passive set up. That is because active has advantages over passive.

Niw the point of this thread was not about me unhappy with my sound looking for better sound or something missing.

It was to see if an very good designed active system can sound BETTER or AS GOOD than a passive one costing 3 times more.

As it turned out on this occasion the actives won and no amount of running in or stands could change the result.

But fear not back.home and the hegel and atcs are still sounding lively and good.(just not as good)