passive set up v active set up

[thewinelake.]

True, dat.

Had a great time listening to the Proms last night with my speaker balanced on top of a box of wine, a sack of charcoal ("restaurant grade", mind) another wine box (wooden), and a final cardboard wine box, with a plastic box of screwdriver tips just to get it vaguely horizontal.

Still sounded fab to me.

It does seem that equipment can get in the way of music - even if only psychologically, and that I even feel there's something not quite right about participation in this forum. Moth to a flame, me.

 

[Andrewjvt]

Andrew regrets posting the images because it gave the opportunity to find fault where there was none regarding the outcome of the test.

And the mention of loyalty is interesting. AVI users are often accused of being lambs in Ash's heard. I dare say the opposite is true, we have left a heard if ever we were part of one, trusting only our ears and logic (regarding technical issues).

Personally, I spent 20 years in the crowd, constantly upgrading for that short period of satisfaction, again and again, always ending up wanting - and returning to the shop to repent and hand over the cash for absolution. That ended with ADM9s. Their performance didn't convert me, it gave me the assurance to leave the faith. After two decades it took just a couple of minutes. So maybe I was ready. But since then I've had no doubts about not hearing the music right. The music, remember?

Raising your head above the parapet now that the anti-AVI/active forces have reorganised after being placed on the back foot by the original comparisons done at the beginning of this thread.

One of the issues I always try to raise in these discussions is the shear difference in presentation between good actives and the usual suspects forever recommended on here. Most have never heard this so simply do not know that the stand issue, for example, is irrelevant, 'they' simply don't get it.

 

Another test has been arranged for the 23/09/16 so that will give me enough time to get stands, subs etc arranged.

There might be a few other tests also

 

[lpv]

There might be a few other tests also

interesting *i-m_so_happy*

 

[plastic penguin]

Andrew regrets posting the images because it gave the opportunity to find fault where there was none regarding the outcome of the test.

And the mention of loyalty is interesting. AVI users are often accused of being lambs in Ash's heard. I dare say the opposite is true, we have left a heard if ever we were part of one, trusting only our ears and logic (regarding technical issues).

Personally, I spent 20 years in the crowd, constantly upgrading for that short period of satisfaction, again and again, always ending up wanting - and returning to the shop to repent and hand over the cash for absolution. That ended with ADM9s. Their performance didn't convert me, it gave me the assurance to leave the faith. After two decades it took just a couple of minutes. So maybe I was ready. But since then I've had no doubts about not hearing the music right. The music, remember?

Raising your head above the parapet now that the anti-AVI/active forces have reorganised after being placed on the back foot by the original comparisons done at the beginning of this thread.

One of the issues I always try to raise in these discussions is the shear difference in presentation between good actives and the usual suspects forever recommended on here. Most have never heard this so simply do not know that the stand issue, for example, is irrelevant, 'they' simply don't get it.

Sorry Dave, but you don't 'alf talk rubbish sometimes. You're are making it sound like a 'them and us' scenario, something I've always detested.

And Moregunner is talking complete garbage when he said "And the mention of loyalty is interesting. AVI users are often accused of being lambs in Ash's heard. I dare say the opposite is true, we have left a heard if ever we were part of one, trusting only our ears and logic (regarding technical"

You may have left the heard, as he puts it but you've ended up in a 'roll up the trouser leg, funny handshake brigade'.

At the end of the day we all have our preferences, and not just sound, as regards connectivity/inputs, aesthetics... and boxes.

But this siege mentality is only generated from one place: The AVI forum. I could never subscribe to brainwashing methods the Colonel adopts.

 

[spiny norman]

Had a great time listening to the Proms last night with my speaker balanced on top of a box of wine

Agreed: last night's Shakespeare prom was very enjoyable, although admittedly I was only balanced on a couple of glasses of wine, not a whole box.

 

[davedotco]

Andrew regrets posting the images because it gave the opportunity to find fault where there was none regarding the outcome of the test.

And the mention of loyalty is interesting. AVI users are often accused of being lambs in Ash's heard. I dare say the opposite is true, we have left a heard if ever we were part of one, trusting only our ears and logic (regarding technical issues).

Personally, I spent 20 years in the crowd, constantly upgrading for that short period of satisfaction, again and again, always ending up wanting - and returning to the shop to repent and hand over the cash for absolution. That ended with ADM9s. Their performance didn't convert me, it gave me the assurance to leave the faith. After two decades it took just a couple of minutes. So maybe I was ready. But since then I've had no doubts about not hearing the music right. The music, remember?

Raising your head above the parapet now that the anti-AVI/active forces have reorganised after being placed on the back foot by the original comparisons done at the beginning of this thread.

One of the issues I always try to raise in these discussions is the shear difference in presentation between good actives and the usual suspects forever recommended on here. Most have never heard this so simply do not know that the stand issue, for example, is irrelevant, 'they' simply don't get it.

Sorry Dave, but you don't 'alf talk rubbish sometimes. You're are making it sound like a 'them and us' scenario, something I've always detested.

And Moregunner is talking complete garbage when he said "And the mention of loyalty is interesting. AVI users are often accused of being lambs in Ash's heard. I dare say the opposite is true, we have left a heard if ever we were part of one, trusting only our ears and logic (regarding technical"

You may have left the heard, as he puts it but you've ended up in a 'roll up the trouser leg, funny handshake brigade'.

At the end of the day we all have our preferences, and not just sound, as regards connectivity/inputs, aesthetics... and boxes.

But this siege mentality is only generated from one place: The AVI forum. I could never subscribe to brainwashing methods the Colonel adopts.

You see, I have a similar point of view, but in reverse.

I think the brainwashing comes from the 'hi-fi establishment' with it's constant stream of new product, excessive bling and branding. This is supported by the press and mainstream retailers and dominates hi-fi retailing in this country.

We see it on here regularly, posts simply looking for 'validation' of the posters choice of the 'correct' brands, actively seeking permission to join the herd.

Human nature is what it is, I believe I am a fair minded person and no doubt you feel the same, but your vendetta against Mr James and all thing AVI is slightly strange.

If I tell you that Mr James, whilst sales manager at ATC adopted very similar tactics with ATC's earlier move into hi-fi and developed another 'love it or hate it' situation.

He hasn't changed but his product has. I have been around the hi-fi block a good few times and I know an outstanding product when I see/hear one, I doubt that I have spoken personally to Mr James since his days at ATC, but that is irrelevant. The products speak for themselves, and very well too.

 

[lindsayt]

davedotco, do you think AVI actives sound better than every passive speaker ever made in the known history of the universe?

 

[spiny norman]

davedotco, do you think AVI actives sound better than every passive speaker ever made in the known history of the universe?

And all the ones still to be made, of course.

 

[lpv]

if you both ever read with understanding what ddc have said you wouldn't ask this infantile questions..

 

[tonky]

Talking of infantile - your permanent tagline at the bottom of all your posts is not?

Personally I've got a very open mind to actives and will try and get a good listen to them someday. I don't doubt they are very revealing in a distinctive way. DDC has usually always been a well informed, honest poster. With his background his knowledge is welcome.

Unfortunately some others are just intent on winding people up.

tonky

 

[thewinelake.]

It is a bit of a cheeky question, no doubt!

I've been listening around quite intensively for a few months now and have bought (and sold on) some gear. My conclusion thus far is that for a sub £1000 system that is practical for my lifestyle and that meets my personal taste in sound, there's nothing to touch AVI (DM5 new or ADM9rs used), but I didn't have DDC's luck with the Adams.

I do like the sound of Lindsayt's DIY cupboard of the 70's, but not in this house!

 

[thewinelake.]

It is a bit of a cheeky question, no doubt!

I've been listening around quite intensively for a few months now and have bought (and sold on) some gear. My conclusion thus far is that for a sub £1000 system that is practical for my lifestyle and that meets my personal taste in sound, there's nothing to touch AVI (DM5 new or ADM9rs used), but I didn't have DDC's luck with the Adams.

I do like the sound of Lindsayt's DIY cupboard of the 70's, but not in this house!

 

[davedotco]

Talking of infantile - your permanent tagline at the bottom of all your posts is not?

Personally I've got a very open mind to actives and will try and get a good listen to them someday. I don't doubt they are very revealing in a distinctive way. DDC has usually always been a well informed, honest poster. With his background his knowledge is welcome.

Unfortunately some others are just intent on winding people up.

tonky

That is very kind.

When bringing the 'active option' into a discussion for the first time, I try and make it clear that the results will not be for everyone and further, particularly when suggesting models from the pro side of the industry, that the presentation will be very different.

If you are looking for actives that are aimed squarely at the hi-fi enthusiast, with a good all round performance, yet are affordable (under £2k), then you have AVI and Dynaudio and not a lot else.

From a practical point of view it is quite difficult to audition either of these ranges, you can take your life in your hands and visit the 'prince of darkness' himself in Nailsworth but you will not get a comparitive demonstration or try a Dynaudio dealer if you can find one that has an interest in the active models.

For what it is worth, I have not yet found a dealer who can do a compedent demonstration on active speakers, they seem a very poor fit with mainstream dealers.

 

[lindsayt]

if you both ever read with understanding what ddc have said you wouldn't ask this infantile questions..

How about you lpv, do you think that AVI actives sound better than any passives made in the history of the Universe?

 

[Phileas]

if you both ever read with understanding what ddc have said you wouldn't ask this infantile questions..

How about you lpv, do you think that AVI actives sound better than any passives made in the history of the Universe?

I do (I assume you mean just this universe and not any parallel ones).

 

[lpv]

if you both ever read with understanding what ddc have said you wouldn't ask this infantile questions..

How about you lpv, do you think that AVI actives sound better than any passives made in the history of the Universe?

I've never stated anything like that.. and my answer is: no

this are one of the best speakers I've heard. I can name all I've heard if you're interested and if I remeber all...

 

[lindsayt]

I agree with you lpv.

So, do you think it would be misleading marketing / miss-selling for anyone to claim that AVI actives sound better than any passive speakers ever made?

 

[lpv]

I agree with you lpv.

So, do you think it would be misleading marketing / miss-selling for anyone to claim that AVI actives sound better than any passive speakers ever made?

no, I don't think so.. cause ANY marketing if full of sh!t, no exceptions. never heard any truthful salesman, and "if honesty were suddenly introduced... the whole system would collapse!” ( george carlin)

but then, every stage of DM10's development from drivers, amps, crossovers to cabinet, connections everything is there on their forum.. fundamentally marketing is what it is: bullsh!t, no more no less..

 

[spiny norman]

but then, every stage of DM10's development from drivers, amps, crossovers to cabinet, connections everything is there on their forum.

Yes, it's called marketing.

 

[lindsayt]

I agree with you lpv.

So, do you think it would be misleading marketing / miss-selling for anyone to claim that AVI actives sound better than any passive speakers ever made?

no, I don't think so.. cause ANY marketing if full of sh!t, no exceptions. never heard any truthful salesman, and "if honesty were suddenly introduced... the whole system would collapse!” ( george carlin)

but then, every stage of DM10's development from drivers, amps, crossovers to cabinet, connections everything is there on their forum.. fundamentally marketing is what it is: bullsh!t, no more no less..

I disagree 100%.

But then I work for a company that sets high standards of ethical and moral conduct.

Any salesman making misleading marketing statements for my company would get re-training / disciplinary action / the sack.

I never give misleading statements to any of my clients. 100% honesty and integrity 100% of the time.

It's about building trust, respect and a good working relationship. That makes very good business sense.

 

[lpv]

I think we should stop here and continue the discussion privately, especially after this statement " I never give misleading statements to any of my clients. 100% honesty and integrity 100% of the time"

 

[Infiniteloop]

I agree with you lpv.

So, do you think it would be misleading marketing / miss-selling for anyone to claim that AVI actives sound better than any passive speakers ever made?

no, I don't think so.. cause ANY marketing if full of sh!t, no exceptions. never heard any truthful salesman, and "if honesty were suddenly introduced... the whole system would collapse!” ( george carlin)

but then, every stage of DM10's development from drivers, amps, crossovers to cabinet, connections everything is there on their forum.. fundamentally marketing is what it is: bullsh!t, no more no less..

I disagree 100%.

But then I work for a company that sets high standards of ethical and moral conduct.

Any salesman making misleading marketing statements for my company would get re-training / disciplinary action / the sack.

I never give misleading statements to any of my clients. 100% honesty and integrity 100% of the time.

It's about building trust, respect and a good working relationship. That makes very good business sense.

I couldn't agree more. It's certainly not about going on to HiFi forums and telling everyone that your products are totally superior to everyone else's regardless of price and facts and ramming it down people's throats with unwarranted arrogance and smugness.

 

[Ashley James]

I truly believe that we've made speakers as good as they can be, thanks to Sinar Baja. I also believe that no passive speaker will be overall as satisfactory listening experience because they have so much more distortion of the kind that irritates.

In other words, someone who didn't give a tinkers cuss about hi fi or posturing, but had a huge music collection, just wanted to enjoy it and had a good ear (don't assume that because people are hi fi enthusiasts, they know a good sound any more than all car enthusiasts are good drivers) would almost certainly prefer DM5s to anything passive.

This particularly applies to enthusiasts of classical, acoustic, folk, jazz, big band, speech and drama etc. With lots of electronic and modern pop music, the benefits of headphone like accuracy are less apparent and some treat their speakers as an extra member of the band.

I recommend hearing cheap active monitors in a pro audio shop, because you'll hear the much greater clarity straight away.

What is true is that there are active speakers out there that are pretty mediocre, several makes and yet the still have a good reputation and lots don't seem to realise.

 

[thewinelake.]

Is a bi-amped 2-way speaker active or passive?

i presume the definitive bit of "Active" is a crossover at line level?

 

[Infiniteloop]

There are people who believe that Elvis is still alive, Darwin was wrong, Climate change isn't happening and Katy Price is a worthwhile celebrity.

These people have no facts to support their belief......

Sound familiar?