panasonic 50vt20 .. will it be crowned king ?

[Andrew Everard]

The old 'advertising influences editorial' nonsense? Is that the best you can do? Was that your big insight?

Max, you disappoint me...

(Oh, and just went to one of those so-called 'independent' review sites, and it's splattered with Viera ads in every position possible, including the one promoting the Which? best brand Award.

Strangely, only time I've ever met people from the Which? TV test team, they were on a Panasonic press trip to Japan a couple of years back. We - WHFSV - bumped into them at a show, which we were attending at our own cost.

Be careful how you bandy the word 'independent' around...

 

[Anonymous]

I have now read the review. The Sony is you state in a 'whole other ball park'. I totally accept your assesment as experts................providing this clear difference is seen by other reviewers

if ALL other reviewers see differently........I am confused as you guys are the only (AV) service I pay for, and all your eggs in one basket

 

[Anonymous]

how else do you explain the lcd worship ? constant 5 star blessings of flawed 3d lcdtvs ?

4 stars last year for the pana v10 ? describing the v10 last year and i quote "we have seen better blacks" when the tv had the deepest blacks of any 09 tv bar the kuro ? what on earth were you going on about there ?? why would you say such a thing ?

same this year with the exceptional g20 , 4 stars ?......... the rest ? top marks for the pana ..

i couldnt give a hoot about panasonic , i just like to see fairness , i dont like the idea of a hard working man , spending his money on a 3d samsung for his family , based on a 5 star review here , and then asking his wife , whats all this ghosting on the screen

??

i just wanted to highlight why im banging on about this review , so other readers dont think im some kind of lunatic

..........

 

[Andrew Everard]

Max, as we have said endlessly in this thread and elsewhere, we report what we see, after lengthy comparisons, often side by side, not what we read all the other reviews saying for whatever reason they choose to say so.

To be fair, much of your opinions expressed here are second- or third-hand, based on what you've read elsewhere, and as you have said several time you haven't read the reviews in question, nor seen some of the TVs on which you opine. It took us ages to disabuse you of the 'new Kuro' nonsense you were spouting a while back, and then of the 'Kuro inside' you were peddling.

maxflinn:i just wanted to highlight why im banging on
about this review , so other readers dont think im some kind of
lunatic

..........

Rather as you have by reading what you have online, I am sure readers of this thread will draw their own conclusions.

 

[Anonymous]

Andrew Everard:
Max, as we have said endlessly in this thread and elsewhere, we report what we see, after lengthy comparisons, often side by side, not what we read all the other reviews saying for whatever reason they choose to say so.

To be fair, much of your opinions expressed here are second- or third-hand, based on what you've read elsewhere, and as you have said several time you haven't read the reviews in question, nor seen some of the TVs on which you opine. It took us ages to disabuse you of the 'new Kuro' nonsense you were spouting a while back, and then of the 'Kuro inside' you were peddling.

maxflinn:i just wanted to highlight why im banging on
about this review , so other readers dont think im some kind of
lunatic

..........

Rather as you have by reading what you have online, I am sure readers of this thread will draw their own conclusions.

2nd or 3rd hand ?? ive seen a kuro many times , i own a g10 , ive demoed the vt20 extensively , demoed the sony 40hx803 , samsung 46c8000 ...

i read all the review sites , follow all the tech news , as do many on here ..

but lets keep this on the subject , ie whfis review , not me

...

many people will read this thread , let them try to figure out , why whfis reviews are so anti panasonic and pro sony ,philips,samsung etc ??

ive stated why i think so , lets see if any others have the bottle to say what they think ??

 

[Anonymous]

If you think it's all a load of bull then why bother reading the magazine/posting? Sorry but I don't get it... If you honestly believe that WHFSV is biased by advertisers then why do you come here? I know if I believed that I wouldn't go near their reviews.

So what the VT20 got 4 stars? The whole story about being worried about the hard working man buying a TV... please...

Sometimes I disagree with the reviews on here too, do I need to rant endlessly on the forum about it? No.

Sometimes other reviewers have different opinions than the ones from WHFSV, do I need to make a post complaining about it? No/

To say you disagree with the review and provide evidence and reasoning based on your personal experience with the set is one thing, and is something that is surely appreciated. But to start throwing out wild unfounded accusations of bias and shoddy rating systems is just silly.

I have seen the VT20, but haven't read the review, so I will save judgement until I have read it. I thought it would get 5 stars when I saw it, but I haven't seen the Sony, so I can't really comment.

 

[Anonymous]

Duol:
If you think it's all a load of bull then why bother reading the magazine/posting? Sorry but I don't get it... If you honestly believe that WHFSV is biased by advertisers then why do you come here? I know if I believed that I wouldn't go near their reviews.

So what the VT20 got 4 stars? The whole story about being worried about the hard working man buying a TV... please...

Sometimes I disagree with the reviews on here too, do I need to rant endlessly on the forum about it? No.

Sometimes other reviewers have different opinions than the ones from WHFSV, do I need to make a post complaining about it? No/

To say you disagree with the review and provide evidence and reasoning based on your personal experience with the set is one thing, and is something that is surely appreciated. But to start throwing out wild unfounded accusations of bias and shoddy rating systems is just silly.

I have seen the VT20, but haven't read the review, so I will save judgement until I have read it. I thought it would get 5 stars when I saw it, but I haven't seen the Sony, so I can't really comment.

unfounded accusations of bias ?? maybe , maybe that is unfair ...

but how can a tv , judged by every reviewer on the planet that has reviewed it , to be either the best tv ever , the best on sale today , or one of the best ever seen , get 4 stars on here ?? or more to the point , why would it ? what do you think ? dont you find that a bit strange ? again .. please lets talk about the review .. not individuals ..

 

[Dave_]

maxflinn:please lets talk about the review .. not individuals ..

max,you're not discussing a review!!! You're discussing a star rating of a review you haven't read.

They way you're carrying on anyone would think a four star rating was a bad rating...

 

[Clare Newsome]

Plus being TOTALLY irrational and factually incorrect.

We haven't given five stars to every 3D TV ; we gave four stars to the first Sony 3D TV and there's a three-star rating for an LG 3D TV in the same issue as the Pana/Sony reviews this thread discusses.

That's the same, September issue in which Panasonic wins the 32in TV supertest - beating Sony, Samsung etc in the process.

How the hell are we biased against Panasonic when it wins the Supertest for the biggest-selling TV size in Britain?

 

[Anonymous]

daveh75:
max,you're not discussing a review!!! You're discussing a star rating of a review you haven't read.

They way you carry on anyone would think a four star rating was a bad rating.

the vt20 is a 5 star tv all day long daveh , its an insult to ones intelligence to suggest otherwise imo ...

i dont doubt the sony is a great tv .. but , in another league / world , whatever was said ? lol , please ..

anyway i dont care anymore , i swore i wouldnt get involved in this too much , i started the thread for a bit of crack and banter really ...

not this mayhem

... i should know better

 

[Clare Newsome]

Yet again you shy away from acknowledging your posts have been factually incorrect.

 

[redbullmaster]

I don't know if it's covered in the review, but what's the motion like on the 50vt20. As on another forum there seem to be a big issue with people suffering from poor blurring effects. I have a 46 g10, and the only reason i want to update it is because i'm also suffering from poor motion. As i've seen second-hand Kuro's go for about £2200. Would you guys buy the Sony over the Kuro, or if i could track one down, is the Kuro still the best set to buy. I'm not interested in the 3D side of it, just the best picture quality that i can afford.

 

[Anonymous]

clare , i dont care really , i was kinda drawn into this i didnt want to get caught up in it ..

clare , the panasonic 50vt20 is an exceptional achievement , its the best 3dtv on sale , the sony may be a smidgen , a touch better at 2d , i can buy that , but come on , no disrespect to you clare , 4 stars for the pana is laughable , it really is ...

 

[Anonymous]

maxflinn:Duol:

unfounded accusations of bias ?? maybe , maybe that is unfair ...

but how can a tv , judged by every reviewer on the planet that has reviewed it , to be either the best tv ever , the best on sale today , or one of the best ever seen , get 4 stars on here ?? or more to the point , why would it ? what do you think ? dont you find that a bit strange ? again .. please lets talk about the review .. not individuals ..

I have no doubt that you read tons more reviews than I do, but I do read a couple now and again. So far I have not seen anyone compare the HX903 directly to the VT20. I haven't really seen many people review the HX903 thoroughly at all. I thought it was quite generous of the team to unveil the reason why the VT20 lost out (the HX903 was so much better) because I would have told you to sod off and buy the mag.

Its been stated multiple times that it lost a star because the HX903 was so much better that they couldn't imagine not spending the extra outlay over the VT20. That's the explanation. End of. What everyone else says is irrelevant, because in most cases they haven't tested the sets side by side, or just have different opinions. This is one test. If they listened to everyone else then this WOULD be a biased review.

They way I see it is that you have to find the reviewers that most suit your needs and match your' typical analysis. WHFSV tends to match my demand when it comes to AV stuff, not always but mostly and is why it is my first stop for reviews. For many more die hard enthusiasts I am sure they go elsewhere as those sites better suit their needs. For those who have different taste than the reviewers here will find other sources more useful.

I don't see why you actually "care" that the TV got four stars, I am sure it's a debatable topic, but many posts you made here just unmasked you as a plasma fanboy...

 

[Anonymous]

maxflinn:

ah , so the 46in sony is £460 more expensive than the 50vt20 ?

so the 52hx903 which is closer in size is what , around £1000 more expensive ?

lol , i give up guys , you win

For me it would be more important to know how whould a comparaison between the 50VT20 and the 52HX903 would come out.

People who will spend this kind of money should know what size TV they need for their room, and if they need a 50in they donït want a 46in...

 

[Pindi]

Andrew Everard:
maxflinn:hmmm , youve chirped up andrew , must have had a nice lunch

..

Have been here all the time, max, and do you suspect I was eating lunch at 4pm or is it another of those things you just know...

maxflinn:but its the woundrous test sony im inquiring about , 46in ? or 52in?

Oh you mean the set you know couldn't possibly be as good as the Panasonic the review of which you haven't read either? It was a 46, and not at all covered in wounds.

I disagree, you reviewed the 52" Sony, even though I haven't read the
mag.

 

[Clare Newsome]

maxflinn:
clare , i dont care really , i was kinda drawn into this i didnt want to get caught up in it ..

clare , the panasonic 50vt20 is an exceptional achievement , its the best 3dtv on sale , the sony may be a smidgen , a touch better at 2d , i can buy that , but come on , no disrespect to you clare , 4 stars for the pana is laughable , it really is ...

Max, you do obviously care. You started this thread, so I don't know how you were 'kinda drawn into this'.

And in your opinion, having not seen the sets (or reviews) in question, together, the Panasonic is best.

That's fine - it's your opinion.

But that's no reason to call our opinion laughable, or to continuously peddle inaccuracies and groundless insinuations about our testing.

 

[D.J.KRIME]

Crickey Max all this over a flippin star!

Personally I find the whole star rating flawed as by giving only 5 stars there are far too many qualities to take into account with AV products to be able to sum up the proformance in 5 stars, maybe a better rating would be to seperate the stars into 5 sections say picture,sound,value etc then rate products out of 25. To me this would make more sense and give a clearer indication where one product outporforms another.

One thing that has got me tho with the VT20 getting 4 stars opposed to the 5 stars it would have got if it were not for the arrival of the Sony is that on this basis then all TV's that previously scored 5 stars must surely now be docked a star??

Personally I have tried quite a few 3DTV's and all have suffered from crosstalk with IMHO the LCD's being worse than the Plasma's, I had the chance of viewing the Samsung C8000 LCD alongside the Samsung PS50C7000 Plasma and the crosstalk was consideribly more apparant on the LCD but for some reason there has been no indication of a pending review of the PS50C7000 which to my eyes was better than the 5 star rated LCD.

 

[Clare Newsome]

As previously stated, all 3D TV reviews will be reappraised at Group Test phase - and we've asked for as many sets as we can get hold of. That includes the larger-screen sets.

 

[D.J.KRIME]

Clare Newsome:As previously stated, all 3D TV reviews will be reappraised at Group Test phase - and we've asked for as many sets as we can get hold of. That includes the larger-screen sets.

So have you asked Samsung for a review sample of the C7000 Plasma?

 

[Clare Newsome]

We've asked all the manufacturers for as many set as poss, so yes.

 

[D.J.KRIME]

Clare Newsome:We've asked all the manufacturers for as many set as poss, so yes.

So does that mean that you ask them to send as many models as possible and they pick what you get or do you request the models you want to review? it's just say with the Samsung Plasma's there was a no show of a review for last years B850 model only the lower spec B650 and from the way things are looking IMHO it looks like all Samsung all sending you are the LCD models and not a Plaz in sight.

 

[Clare Newsome]

We request the models, most - but not all - we get. And remember, a Samsung plasma won an Award from us last year....

 

[D.J.KRIME]

Clare Newsome:We request the models, most - but not all - we get. And remember, a Samsung plasma won an Award from us last year....

I know but there was still a lack of a review for the superior B850. If you look at the C7000 plasmas they could potentially be the best TV's in there group as compared to the LCD models are much more competivly priced with the 50" avalible for around £1350 and the monster 63" at around £2500 which blows ther prices of the VT20 and the Sony out of the water if the proformance is up to scratch.

 

[Clare Newsome]

Indeed. We'd love to review it. It may even already be on our test list - I don't have that to hand at this time on a Friday night!