panasonic 50vt20 .. will it be crowned king ?

[TKratz]

johnb1966:

The review calls into question the competency of the 'rest of the worlds' reviewers. One reviewer in particular gave it '''reference''' status. Now reference doesnt suggest 4 stars, (OK the HX903 may now be the reference (lets see) ) b ut even second best gets 5 stars in my book

This is exactly what I meant when stating: "Eagerly awaiting confirmation from other independent review sites".
To be fair, there aren't many reviews around for the Sony at this point, so this could well be the new top of the hill.

Admittedly it also strikes me as a paradox to me that 3 out of 4 of my favourite review sources rate the Panasonic VT20 as the new king (considering Pioneer is no longer here) while the last source do not even give et top notch

But as I have said before I really think this is down to the testing philosophy rather than anything else.

 

[Anonymous]

Clare Newsome:
I am being totally fair, and coming to this issue with no preconceptions, prejudices or axes to grind.

And, of course, first-hand knowledge and experience of the products in question and how our testing procedures run.

If you can be equally as balanced, and having read the reviews in question in full, and make no ill-informed judgements about how we work, then yes, i'm happy to discuss it.

well i havnt read the review yet clare , cant do so till next week i presume ..

can still chat if you like though

 

[Clare Newsome]

TKratz:johnb1966:

The review calls into question the competency of the 'rest of the worlds' reviewers. One reviewer in particular gave it '''reference''' status. Now reference doesnt suggest 4 stars, (OK the HX903 may now be the reference (lets see) ) b ut even second best gets 5 stars in my book

This is exactly what I meant when stating: "Eagerly awaiting confirmation from other independent review sites".
To be fair, there aren't many reviews around for the Sony at this point, so this could well be the new top of the hill.

Admittedly it also strikes me as a paradox to me that 3 out of 4 of my favourite review sources rate the Panasonic VT20 as the new king (considering Pioneer is no longer here) while the last source do not even give et top notch

How many more times do I have to stress that the Panasonic would have been a five-star product if it hadn't landed in our test rooms the same time as the HX903

It's a superb TV. But not a single one of our test team - and believe me, we debated this one for days and days and days - would have taken it over the Sony once we'd seen the two side-by-side.

And talking of side-by-side, I doubt many other testers spent as much time as us directly comparing the VT20 with the Kuro, either. All that's covered off by the review, too.

 

[Anonymous]

Andrew Everard:
I'd just like a clarification of your

maxflinn:what i suspected all along i now know to be correct ..

as without such clarification the remark is nothing more than a groundless insinuation that you 'know' there is something untoward happening.

its something i believe , that i cant prove , its no big deal , and not untoward , just an opinion of mine ..

..

anyways guys there will be plenty of people im sure , stunned at the 4 star review , lets keep discussions about that , and not little old me ..ta..

 

[Anonymous]

It certainly allows you guys to poke a finger at all the ''internet competition'' out there and say ''we decide whats good not you'' which maybe you feel you need to do as a paying service.

I suppose its important for you to differentiate yourselves - within the flexibility of course of retaining credibility

 

[Andrew Everard]

maxflinn:]its something i believe , that i cant prove , its no big deal , and not untoward , just an opinion of mine ..

.

Ah right, so meaningless intrigue again, then?

maxflinn: lets keep discussions about that , and not little old me ..ta..

Just remind me, who started this thread?

 

[Anonymous]

Clare Newsome:TKratz:johnb1966:

The review calls into question the competency of the 'rest of the worlds' reviewers. One reviewer in particular gave it '''reference''' status. Now reference doesnt suggest 4 stars, (OK the HX903 may now be the reference (lets see) ) b ut even second best gets 5 stars in my book

This is exactly what I meant when stating: "Eagerly awaiting confirmation from other independent review sites".
To be fair, there aren't many reviews around for the Sony at this point, so this could well be the new top of the hill.

Admittedly it also strikes me as a paradox to me that 3 out of 4 of my favourite review sources rate the Panasonic VT20 as the new king (considering Pioneer is no longer here) while the last source do not even give et top notch

How many more times do I have to stress that the Panasonic would have been a five-star product if it hadn't landed in our test rooms the same time as the HX903

It's a superb TV. But not a single one of our test team - and believe me, we debated this one for days and days and days - would have taken it over the Sony once we'd seen the two side-by-side.

And talking of side-by-side, I doubt many other testers spent as much time as us directly comparing the VT20 with the Kuro, either. All that's covered off by the review, too.

now i read a review of that sony already clare , on cnet , they loved it , very very deep blacks , good shadow detail , but not as good as the vt20 , and its 3d performance was also not as good as the vt20 , it suffered from crosstalk , the vt20 didnt , on the whole , not as good as the vt20 ...

now , you have put the panasonic g20 into 2 grouptests so far this year , both won by a sony , and on both occasions the pana got 4 stars while all the other tvs got 5 stars regardless of price , but the win was still given to the sony ..

thats fair enough , but you could have also given the vt20 5 stars and called the sony the winner , like the other tests above , 5 stars all round bar the pana? the result would at least look a little credible then ?

but to knock the vt20 down to 4 stars ? its really surprised me , you are saying the tv is only "very good" , and please , how can you expect any person with an ounce of intellect to buy your rediculous statement that only for the sony the vt20 would have got 5 stars ? if you only have one 5 star tv in a given class , then maybe , but you have many ? its illogical clare , it dont stack up ..

when you consistently hand out 5 stars to several tvs at a time in group tests , how can you then dock a star from what is considered the best tv on sale today outside of whfi world ? i honestly cant see why you have done this , it just makes no sense ?

 

[Clare Newsome]

johnb1966:
It certainly allows you guys to poke a finger at all the ''internet competition'' out there and say ''we decide whats good not you'' which maybe you feel you need to do as a paying service.

I suppose its important for you to differentiate yourselves - within the flexibility of course of retaining credibility

No element of that at all.

The consumer should decide what's good - we can only help suggest a shortlist.

And we never, ever let other reviews (or any external factors) influence our ratings.

 

[Anonymous]

Andrew Everard:
maxflinn:]its something i believe , that i cant prove , its no big deal , and not untoward , just an opinion of mine ..

.

Ah right, so meaningless intrigue again, then?

maxflinn: lets keep discussions about that , and not little old me ..ta..

Just remind me, who started this thread?

yes its about a tv review andrew , not me .. thanks ...

 

[Andrew Everard]

maxflinn:yes its about a tv review andrew , not me .. thanks ...

I thought most of your threads were about you...

And I'm afraid your diatribe above above group tests, star ratings and so on just makes it very clear that you haven't read the tests in question. Yet you are willing to pronounce on their findings...

 

[Anonymous]

Andrew Everard:
maxflinn:yes its about a tv review andrew , not me .. thanks ...

I thought most of your threads were about you...

i have no idea what that means andrew . sorry .

 

[Clare Newsome]

maxflinn:
now i read a review of that sony already clare , on cnet , they loved it , very very deep blacks , good shadow detail , but not as good as the vt20 , and its 3d performance was also not as good as the vt20 , it suffered from crosstalk , the vt20 didnt , on the whole , not as good as the vt20 ...

Their opinion; not ours - and I have no way of knowing how they calibrated or tested the sets to come to that conclusion.

maxflinn:

now , you have put the panasonic g20 into 2 grouptests so far this year , both won by a sony , and on both occasions the pana got 4 stars while all the other tvs got 5 stars regardless of price , but the win was still given to the sony ..

Not true that all other sets got five stars - your memory (and prejudices) are playing tricks.

maxflinn:

thats fair enough , but you could have also given the vt20 5 stars and called the sony the winner , like the other tests above , 5 stars all round bar the pana? the result would at least look a little credible then ?

but to knock the vt20 down to 4 stars ? its really surprised me , you are saying the tv is only "very good" , and please , how can you expect any person with an ounce of intellect to buy your rediculous statement that only for the sony the vt20 would have got 5 stars ? if you only have one 5 star tv in a given class , then maybe , but you have many ? its illogical clare , it dont stack up ..

No, we don't have only one five-star TV in any class - but when there are two sets that are close in cost and spec, there should be clear winner. In our eyes that's the Sony.

If the Panasonic had been reviewed pre-Sony 903, it would have got five stars - and then lost one in a Group Test to Sony.

All other ratings will be reappraised - via a Group Test and Awards judging - which could mean other changes, too.

And we've still got other sets to test, too. Who knows, the Sony might not end up our favourite!

I've said it many times in this thread and i'll say it again- read both reviews in full, and you should understand our thinking more clearly.

Oh, and did I mention that Panasonic win the TV Supertest this issue?

 

[Andrew Everard]

maxflinn:i have no idea what that means andrew . sorry .

It's just something I have long suspected, which I now know to be true.

 

[Anonymous]

andrew , the panasonic 50vt20 is no 4 star tv , it just simply isnt ...

whfi have said it is , i dont need to read anything , 4 stars is 4 stars ..

why have whfi rated this tv as they have ? ask the team , cos i dont know ..

 

[Simon Lucas]

maxflinn:its something i believe , that i cant prove

I always suspected this Panasonic preoccupation might reach religious intensity.

 

[Anonymous]

Andrew Everard:
maxflinn:i have no idea what that means andrew . sorry .

It's just something I have long suspected, which I now know to be true.

very good

 

[Anonymous]

clare , i have no prejudices , im getting bored with this now , ill let someone else have a say , if they have the guts ...

 

[JoelSim]

Yes and you've rated my speakers as only 4 star! I don't like them any more. Hrumpf!

 

[Andrew Everard]

JoelSim:Yes and you've rated my speakers as only 4 star! I don't like them any more. Hrumpf!

Sorry Joel, you're only allowed to react like that if you've merely read on a forum that the star-rating is four, and you have no idea what the rest of the test (for which of course the star-rating is only shorthand, and of which it is only one element) says...

 

[JoelSim]

Andrew Everard:

JoelSim:Yes and you've rated my speakers as only 4 star! I don't like them any more. Hrumpf!

Sorry Joel, you're only allowed to react like that if you've merely read on a forum that the star-rating is four, and you have no idea what the rest of the test (for which of course the star-rating is only shorthand, and of which it is only one element) says...

Well I have said before that I don't think you should only test Panasonics in the car park on sunny days.

 

[AEJim]

Simon Lucas:
maxflinn:its something i believe , that i cant prove

I always suspected this Panasonic preoccupation might reach religious intensity.

Try going on an Apple forum and saying the iPhone 4 has a design flaw - you might as well be Satan...

 

[JoelSim]

AEJim:Simon Lucas:

maxflinn:its something i believe , that i cant prove

I always suspected this Panasonic preoccupation might reach religious intensity.

Try going on an Apple forum and saying the iPhone 4 has a design flaw - you might as well be Satan...

Judging from the 'select' group of people I saw hanging around the local O2 store on iPad day and iPhone 4 day, I wouldn't have thought you'd be particularly fearful of the ramifications.

 

[Andrew Everard]

JoelSim:Judging from the 'select' group of people I saw hanging around the local O2 store on iPad day and iPhone 4 day, I wouldn't have thought you'd be particularly fearful of the ramifications.

Beware of geeks bearing gifts...

 

[hammill]

AEJim:Simon Lucas:

maxflinn:its something i believe , that i cant prove

I always suspected this Panasonic preoccupation might reach religious intensity.

Try going on an Apple forum and saying the iPhone 4 has a design flaw - you might as well be Satan...
This thread has got very strange. Unless you have tested the Sony and the Panasonic (as the magazine has) your opinion over which is superioris worthless. I like my Oppo, but I did not complain when it was given 4 stars because I had not seen the competing Sony.

 

[Anonymous]

the oppo was considered the best by most other review sites too ...