ok then , my last insinuation/accusation/deluded comment/factually incorrect statement/uneducated observation/plasma fanboys comment is ....drums arolllll....
the amazingly coincidental arrival , at the very same time , of the only possible tv that could be used to denegrate another , the best in fact , panasonic tv was imho , planned with military precision to further the anti panasonic , pro lcd mission that is currently , for reasons only known to them , whfis agenda .....
phew , as duncan bannetine would say , im out
the amazingly coincidental arrival , at the very same time , of the only possible tv that could be used to denegrate another , the best in fact , panasonic tv was imho , planned with military precision to further the anti panasonic , pro lcd mission that is currently , for reasons only known to them , whfis agenda .....
phew , as duncan bannetine would say , im out
The only answer to that ridiculous conspiracy theory is spherical, and in the plural. If you'd ever had to deal with the chaotic enterprise that is Sony's PR machine, you'd know that it's virtually impossible to arrange the kind of event your bizarre fantasy world suggests: products do just turn up out of the blue, and even if one product is requested for a specific reason, such as a group test, it's highly probable something entirely different will arrive.
There is no agenda beyond that in your deluded imagination, and the fact you consider there to be such an agenda, and are willing to spend an entire day writing on a website forum about it, is more than bizarre.
You're out? I very much doubt it...
There is no agenda beyond that in your deluded imagination, and the fact you consider there to be such an agenda, and are willing to spend an entire day writing on a website forum about it, is more than bizarre.
You're out? I very much doubt it...
bigboss
Moderator
I found it quite bizarre that a 50-inch set lost out a star because it was compared with a 46-inch one, & even more bizarre that 3D crosstalk was mentioned in a plasma TV but not in the LCD TV review, when everyone knows that LCD TVs suffer from them.
OK, here is my outlook on this thread.
The team at WHF are experts in their fields, knowledgable, skilled and probably lots more superlatives but I see no logic in any conspiarcey theory. It sounds to me they have studied several top end TV's and then published the findings. This is from the team as a whole and it is their opinion that Sony's offering is a 5 star and the Pana is a 4 star.
Their expert opinions and they are more than entitled to it. I fully admire the team and any of the findings/reviews, but I always choose my hardware using my own senses, a method that always proves to be a winner.
Then however, having seen the Pana in action, in my opinion it is very much a worthy 5 star winner. It is a fabulous TV, irrespective of price, size, plasma/lcd, 3d/2d etc. I have not seen the Sony so cannot comment, but I have no doubts it will be a stunning TV.
I own Pana's TH-42PZ80B and I love its image, I have seen some fabulous TV's including the VT20, but have yet to see anything that would tempt me to empty my wallet.
IN MY OPINION (sorry for shouting Andrew, but I am sure you will know what I'm getting at) the best TV on the market is LG's LG-47LE8900. I have absolutely no interest in 3D, the market is incredibly limited and will be for a few more years, so for now I'll stick with what I have got.
The team at WHF are experts in their fields, knowledgable, skilled and probably lots more superlatives but I see no logic in any conspiarcey theory. It sounds to me they have studied several top end TV's and then published the findings. This is from the team as a whole and it is their opinion that Sony's offering is a 5 star and the Pana is a 4 star.
Their expert opinions and they are more than entitled to it. I fully admire the team and any of the findings/reviews, but I always choose my hardware using my own senses, a method that always proves to be a winner.
Then however, having seen the Pana in action, in my opinion it is very much a worthy 5 star winner. It is a fabulous TV, irrespective of price, size, plasma/lcd, 3d/2d etc. I have not seen the Sony so cannot comment, but I have no doubts it will be a stunning TV.
I own Pana's TH-42PZ80B and I love its image, I have seen some fabulous TV's including the VT20, but have yet to see anything that would tempt me to empty my wallet.
IN MY OPINION (sorry for shouting Andrew, but I am sure you will know what I'm getting at) the best TV on the market is LG's LG-47LE8900. I have absolutely no interest in 3D, the market is incredibly limited and will be for a few more years, so for now I'll stick with what I have got.
Is that right? Lol
Then I completely misunderstood the point by Clare, because I took for granted it was the Sony sufferering from crosstalk, not the Panasonic.
Well, enough said from me now untill I have read the reviews. I hope things are more clear then.
That magasin better arrive soon, because these reviews just keeps getting more and more interesting...
Then I completely misunderstood the point by Clare, because I took for granted it was the Sony sufferering from crosstalk, not the Panasonic.
Well, enough said from me now untill I have read the reviews. I hope things are more clear then.
That magasin better arrive soon, because these reviews just keeps getting more and more interesting...
johnb1966:
I dont agree with you guys on the 4 stars (big time)...... but whatever
I do think though the credibility of the WHSV is higher than these 'marginal return' websites and good point Andrew, I just noticed the ads on that site for viera which I didnt previously notice
As has been previously stated, if you have not compared the two TVs in question, your opinion is meaningless. If the Sony is considerably better than the Panasonic then the Panasonic does not got 5 *s, even if it is the 2nd best TV ever made. I don't see how anyone can possibly argue otherwise UNLESS THEY HAVE SEEN BOTH.
I dont agree with you guys on the 4 stars (big time)...... but whatever
I do think though the credibility of the WHSV is higher than these 'marginal return' websites and good point Andrew, I just noticed the ads on that site for viera which I didnt previously notice
As has been previously stated, if you have not compared the two TVs in question, your opinion is meaningless. If the Sony is considerably better than the Panasonic then the Panasonic does not got 5 *s, even if it is the 2nd best TV ever made. I don't see how anyone can possibly argue otherwise UNLESS THEY HAVE SEEN BOTH.
hammill:johnb1966:
I dont agree with you guys on the 4 stars (big time)...... but whatever
I do think though the credibility of the WHSV is higher than these 'marginal return' websites and good point Andrew, I just noticed the ads on that site for viera which I didnt previously notice
As has been previously stated, if you have not compared the two TVs in question, your opinion is meaningless. If the Sony is considerably better than the Panasonic then the Panasonic does not got 5 *s, even if it is the 2nd best TV ever made. I don't see how anyone can possibly argue otherwise UNLESS THEY HAVE SEEN BOTH.er , i do ..
if the panasonic is the 2nd best tv on sale today , why does it get 4 stars ? forget about who has seen what , if its the best tv on sale today , bar one , why does it merely get a rating of .. very good ??? please enlighten me ??
I dont agree with you guys on the 4 stars (big time)...... but whatever
I do think though the credibility of the WHSV is higher than these 'marginal return' websites and good point Andrew, I just noticed the ads on that site for viera which I didnt previously notice
As has been previously stated, if you have not compared the two TVs in question, your opinion is meaningless. If the Sony is considerably better than the Panasonic then the Panasonic does not got 5 *s, even if it is the 2nd best TV ever made. I don't see how anyone can possibly argue otherwise UNLESS THEY HAVE SEEN BOTH.er , i do ..
if the panasonic is the 2nd best tv on sale today , why does it get 4 stars ? forget about who has seen what , if its the best tv on sale today , bar one , why does it merely get a rating of .. very good ??? please enlighten me ??
it could be a long summer
...
wheres clare ? bigboss has posed some questions he would like answering , im assuming seeing as he is a doctor , there will be no questioning of his sanity
..
just some answers
wheres clare ? bigboss has posed some questions he would like answering , im assuming seeing as he is a doctor , there will be no questioning of his sanity
just some answers
maxflinn:
wheres clare ?
Hi Max, perhaps, unlike us she has a life outside the What Hi Fi umbrella,
wheres clare ?
Hi Max, perhaps, unlike us she has a life outside the What Hi Fi umbrella,
- there will have to be a lot of 3 star (and 2star) sets as almost everything will now be below 5 stars - everything worse than the V20, VT20 at sizes from 42'' up will be dropping down to 3 stars?
Or put it another way. The 4 star bar has been set pretty high
Or put it another way. The 4 star bar has been set pretty high
johnb1966:
- there will have to be a lot of 3 star (and 2star) sets as almost everything will now be below 5 stars - everything worse than the V20, VT20 at sizes from 42'' up will be dropping down to 3 stars?
Or put it another way. The 4 star bar has been set pretty high
lloooooooooooooooooooooooooooooolll ..very good
- there will have to be a lot of 3 star (and 2star) sets as almost everything will now be below 5 stars - everything worse than the V20, VT20 at sizes from 42'' up will be dropping down to 3 stars?
Or put it another way. The 4 star bar has been set pretty high
lloooooooooooooooooooooooooooooolll ..very good
leahandanna:maxflinn:
wheres clare ?
Hi Max, perhaps, unlike us she has a life outside the What Hi Fi umbrella,
so do i ..
sometimes i also look on you tube
wheres clare ?
Hi Max, perhaps, unlike us she has a life outside the What Hi Fi umbrella,
so do i ..
sometimes i also look on you tube
Max
look at the positive - you havent bought yet,and although the VT20 comes close to the kuro and in some ways is better...........the Sony in is '''in a whole different ball park''' - easy, just open your wallet £1000 wider and get the Sony
I'm stuck with a VT20!.- just think when the new philips comes out it might end up a 3 star in a group test, by the years end!!!!!
look at the positive - you havent bought yet,and although the VT20 comes close to the kuro and in some ways is better...........the Sony in is '''in a whole different ball park''' - easy, just open your wallet £1000 wider and get the Sony
I'm stuck with a VT20!.- just think when the new philips comes out it might end up a 3 star in a group test, by the years end!!!!!
bigboss
Moderator
It was good to see the Panasonic to be compared with the Kuro, but of Sony was better than the Panasonic, why wasn't it compared with the reference TV? Sony was applauded for its black levels, but how does that compare with the Panasonic?
johnb1966:
Max
look at the positive - you havent bought yet,and although the VT20 comes close to the kuro and in some ways is better...........the Sony in is '''in a whole different ball park''' - easy, just open your wallet £1000 wider and get the Sony
I'm stuck with a VT20!.- just think when the new philips comes out it might end up a 3 star in a group test, by the years end!!!!!
im possibly going to buy a samsung pn50c8000 plasma john , great value for money ...
the sony is in "a whole different ball park" eh
.... ah , bless em
Max
look at the positive - you havent bought yet,and although the VT20 comes close to the kuro and in some ways is better...........the Sony in is '''in a whole different ball park''' - easy, just open your wallet £1000 wider and get the Sony
I'm stuck with a VT20!.- just think when the new philips comes out it might end up a 3 star in a group test, by the years end!!!!!
im possibly going to buy a samsung pn50c8000 plasma john , great value for money ...
the sony is in "a whole different ball park" eh
maxflinn:
im possibly going to buy a samsung pn50c8000 plasma john , great value for money ...
Are you going to buy a US model then?
To my knowlegde, the 8000 series plasma models are not released in Europe.
im possibly going to buy a samsung pn50c8000 plasma john , great value for money ...
Are you going to buy a US model then?
To my knowlegde, the 8000 series plasma models are not released in Europe.
Andrew Everard:
and the Chelsea-supporting 'all the Samsungs in all the sizes and please explain what you did and didn't ask for
The fact I support Chelsea has nothing to do with my fully valid question in asking how the TV's you get to review are decided upon Andrew and I never mentioned as you say "all Samsungs in all sizes" and find your tone rather insulting.
The point was and is that if the TV's you recieve for review were selected for you by the manufactures and not by you then there would be a inballance in all reviews as the manufactures could hen-pick the models they wish to push. This to date would apear the case with Samung regarding their 3D offerings thus far as all you have recieved are their LCD models.
I'm not a Samsung fanboy, nor does the fact Chelsea are sponsored by them have anything to do with any purchase I make, but I personally as do many others on these forums have a preferance to Plasma TV's over LCD's and to date the only 3D Plasma reviewed by WHSAV is the VT20, so a review of Samsungs C7000 plasma model would be a superb choice of TV to review on the basis that it's consideribly less than all of the competion in it's size and it's also a Plasma so people like myself can compare this to the VT20.
and the Chelsea-supporting 'all the Samsungs in all the sizes and please explain what you did and didn't ask for
The fact I support Chelsea has nothing to do with my fully valid question in asking how the TV's you get to review are decided upon Andrew and I never mentioned as you say "all Samsungs in all sizes" and find your tone rather insulting.
The point was and is that if the TV's you recieve for review were selected for you by the manufactures and not by you then there would be a inballance in all reviews as the manufactures could hen-pick the models they wish to push. This to date would apear the case with Samung regarding their 3D offerings thus far as all you have recieved are their LCD models.
I'm not a Samsung fanboy, nor does the fact Chelsea are sponsored by them have anything to do with any purchase I make, but I personally as do many others on these forums have a preferance to Plasma TV's over LCD's and to date the only 3D Plasma reviewed by WHSAV is the VT20, so a review of Samsungs C7000 plasma model would be a superb choice of TV to review on the basis that it's consideribly less than all of the competion in it's size and it's also a Plasma so people like myself can compare this to the VT20.
D.J.KRIME:The point was and is that if the TV's you recieve for review were selected for you by the manufactures and not by you then there would be a inballance in all reviews as the manufactures could hen-pick the models they wish to push. This to date would apear the case with Samung regarding their 3D offerings thus far as all you have recieved are their LCD models.
Another bizarre post: of course the manufacturers choose which models they send us, although whether or not they have a hen to do it is beyond my awareness. We request the models we wish to test, they choose whether or not to send them. We can't actually force them to send us a product.
Another bizarre post: of course the manufacturers choose which models they send us, although whether or not they have a hen to do it is beyond my awareness. We request the models we wish to test, they choose whether or not to send them. We can't actually force them to send us a product.
Apologies for having had Saturday morning off. Thought it would be rude to ignore my house guests by going online; now they're out in the sunshine, I can rejoin you all.
Firstly i'll tackle crosstalk; I wonder how many people who bandy the term around really know what it means, let alone what it actually looks like!
Crosstalk is when some of the 3D info/elements meant for one eye are relayed to the other (and vice versa). This can lead to a halo effect around objects.
There are many variables, but in summary the faster the panel the less potential of crosstalk. So, plasmas- with their ultra-fast response times - are less likely to suffer from crosstalk. And as our review of the VT20 states, we didn't see any at all: "the Panasonic's [3D] picture is as stable and sharply defined as any we've yet seen, and seems free from crosstalk".
The Sony HX903 is the most plasma-like LCD we've seen - aided by its new-generation panel and full LED backlighting. It's got a smoothness of motion and deepest of blacks we simply haven't seen on an LCD before.
Crosstalk was also negligible; nothing of note in our testing. And in its favour, the 3D picture was crisper, dynamic and with none of the occasional colour-banding issues we found on the Panasonic.
This is why we stress and stress again about testing sets for yourselves before you buy - and that's never been more important in the TV world as with 3D, when we all can have a reaction for or against a product for a range of reasons.
Some people may find any crosstalk unacceptable. Others may never notice it - just as some people are sensitive to motion-processing whereas others are oblivious.
There's also the issue of comfort/fit of glasses- especially if you already wear specs yourself.
Firstly i'll tackle crosstalk; I wonder how many people who bandy the term around really know what it means, let alone what it actually looks like!
Crosstalk is when some of the 3D info/elements meant for one eye are relayed to the other (and vice versa). This can lead to a halo effect around objects.
There are many variables, but in summary the faster the panel the less potential of crosstalk. So, plasmas- with their ultra-fast response times - are less likely to suffer from crosstalk. And as our review of the VT20 states, we didn't see any at all: "the Panasonic's [3D] picture is as stable and sharply defined as any we've yet seen, and seems free from crosstalk".
The Sony HX903 is the most plasma-like LCD we've seen - aided by its new-generation panel and full LED backlighting. It's got a smoothness of motion and deepest of blacks we simply haven't seen on an LCD before.
Crosstalk was also negligible; nothing of note in our testing. And in its favour, the 3D picture was crisper, dynamic and with none of the occasional colour-banding issues we found on the Panasonic.
This is why we stress and stress again about testing sets for yourselves before you buy - and that's never been more important in the TV world as with 3D, when we all can have a reaction for or against a product for a range of reasons.
Some people may find any crosstalk unacceptable. Others may never notice it - just as some people are sensitive to motion-processing whereas others are oblivious.
There's also the issue of comfort/fit of glasses- especially if you already wear specs yourself.
the other two hx903 reviews out there found plenty of crosstalk ...
the 52hx903 is the real competition to the pana , unless my maths are wrong , 52 is closer to 50 than 46..
the 52hx903 is £950 more than the panasonic ..
the use of expressions like "in another ball park" when describing the sony in comparism to the pana is again in contrast to other respected reviewers findings..
giving 4 stars to the pana , even though its £950 cheaper than the sony , is a step too far clare , even with your fine grasp of the english language , there is no way of reasonably justifying that score ..
which leaves the question , why so different to other reviewers , again ? ?
the 52hx903 is the real competition to the pana , unless my maths are wrong , 52 is closer to 50 than 46..
the 52hx903 is £950 more than the panasonic ..
the use of expressions like "in another ball park" when describing the sony in comparism to the pana is again in contrast to other respected reviewers findings..
giving 4 stars to the pana , even though its £950 cheaper than the sony , is a step too far clare , even with your fine grasp of the english language , there is no way of reasonably justifying that score ..
which leaves the question , why so different to other reviewers , again ? ?
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