Interconnects - Law of Diminishing Returns??

[JMac]

Having put together my system (at least for now) comprising of 2x Musical Fidelity M1 PWR amps in mono and a M1 SDAC, i'm now looking at upgrading my interconnects and then speaker cabling.

Looking at the reviews I'm currently somewhere between Audioquest and QED but notice that there is a HUGE variation in price. Now, I expect there is a performance benefit from using a cheap £1.99 RCA cable (which is what I'm currently doing just to get the system working) and a quality manufactured cable but at what point does the increase become marginal?

I only have to run the one set as, like I say, I'm running the amps in dual mono so dont mind spending a little extra on cabling but I question the value in a £300+ cable over say, a £100 one.

 

[CnoEvil]

This is one to try for yourself, as it's one of the most divisive subjects on here.

FWIW. I think cables sound different and more expensive cables "can" sound better......but never spend more than would get you a bigger increase elsewhere in the system. Stick with copper and try to remain objective.

 

[pixa]

I use a Audio Wire Harmony 1 interconnect (£210) which is very good. A different sound from the Chord one that it replaced - much more open. A good upgrade imo. Home audition if you can. Good luck

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi JMac

I'll recommend that you use your exsisting interconnect cable and save your money.

Fwiw, i've just finished using an ATC SCA2 pre amp > Hegel H30 power amp. The interconnect cables used to connect the components were bought from our local electrical store for a few £.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[Overdose]

Having put together my system (at least for now) comprising of 2x Musical Fidelity M1 PWR amps in mono and a M1 SDAC, i'm now looking at upgrading my interconnects and then speaker cabling.

Looking at the reviews I'm currently somewhere between Audioquest and QED but notice that there is a HUGE variation in price. Now, I expect there is a performance benefit from using a cheap £1.99 RCA cable (which is what I'm currently doing just to get the system working) and a quality manufactured cable but at what point does the increase become marginal?

I only have to run the one set as, like I say, I'm running the amps in dual mono so dont mind spending a little extra on cabling but I question the value in a £300+ cable over say, a £100 one.

Consider what the cable does and how it works. It is a conductor that allows a signal to travel unhindered from a very short A-B. That's it. A simple task for such small current flow and voltages. If a cheap interconnect can do this at say £5, why spend any more?

You might benefit from a shielded cable if there is a lot of RFI around your system, but these might set you back the princely sum of say £10, obviously cost will increase with length however.

More money will get you fancier insulation and connectors, even a nice box to put them in, but all that is moot when you consider that these things spend their entire working life hidden behind an electronic box of some description. Some cables have 'special' construction' and design, but you might ask yourself what exactly a cable is doing to the signal to make it sound different to the perfectly transmitted signal via a cheapy cable?

There are some that would justify spending rather more on a cable than is necessary, I'm not one of those and I've tried a fair few in my time.

 

[lindsayt]

JMac, you've taken the correct first step in buying your £1.99 interconnect. That's your datum. Keep an open mind. In your system you may prefer the sound of a more expensive cable, or you may not. If you do prefer the more expensive cable, it's then up to you to decide if you think the improvement is worth the cost or not.

No reviewer and no one on this forum has your exact system in your room and your ears. Cables that work well for other people in their systems may not work well for you.

You are also quite right in questioning the value of £300+ cables. The selling price of so many of them bears no resemblance to their material and manufacturing costs.

 

[Overdose]

If you do prefer the more expensive cable, it's then up to you to decide if you think the improvement is worth the cost or not.

You are also quite right in questioning the value of £300+ cables. The selling price of so many of them bears no resemblance to their material and manufacturing costs.

If you take the view that a cable makes a change in the sound, it is then entirely irrelevent how much it costs if you can justify the expenditure.

 

[adamrobertshaw]

After shuffling some equipment around to accommodate a new purchase I was left with a pair of Qunex interconnects into an integrated amp. The mids were blurred and I had to bung the bass ports on my speakers. Popped in a Van Den Hul The Wave and the mids were back and the bungs came out of the speakers.

Ditto the same on a headphone amp. The VDH interconnect permitted more detail into the headphone amp and all was so much more balanced.

Bought another interconnect today (to banish the Qunex) and everything I've played just has so much detail. Crystal clear and a delight to listen to.

In short, every analogue interconnect upgrade has improved the sound ... but at a price of course.

 

[abacus]

Ignore what you read in Hi Fi magazines and take cable manufactures claims with a pinch of salt. (Also be wary of a lot of HI Fi Dealers)

Pop down to your local professional music store and get some cable from them, as they will give you the typical cable that professional film & music production studios use, (The ones that make the films and music you listen to) which is all that you will ever need.

Hope this helps

Bill

 

[Alec]

with Rick.

 

[Rethep]

Just use thick copper cables, for both interconnects and speakercables!

Mostly it is for just finetuning your system, which from the start already sounded 'right' or 'wrong'. Furthermore you can get used to the original sound on a wider stretch than you think.

Sit back, listen and start enjoying the sound you have, it saves you a lot of money and headaches.

Regards, a musiclover!

 

[hifikrazy]

I'm sure the dealer who sold you the monoblocks and DAC will loan you a few interconnects at different price ranges to try so why not just do that and decide for yourself? Every component in hi-fi is subject to the law of diminishing returns.

 

[andyjm]

Generally, claims made about interconnects don't stand up to any sort of scientific scrutiny.

By engineering standards, audio signals are low frequency and present no challenges to cable designers. The best advice is that for speaker cables size matters, and for line level interconnects, low capacitance and decent shielding is important. Everything else is marketing.

Have a go at trying some cables yourself, but if at all possible, get someone else to change them out of your sight. You will be surprised at how quickly those 'night and day' differences disappear.

 

[JMac]

Thanks for the input from everyone. I think I might buy a set of used but 'quality' RCA cables from eBay and blind test them against the the £1.99 'made in china' cable that I currently have.

 

[ISAC69]

I recommend the the Tellurium Q cables .

 

[adamrobertshaw]

Dealers tend to sell on their demo room cables.

I got a two year old set of VDH The Integration from my dealer. Look used but sound superb. Saved a tidy sum too.

As a few posters have already noted, modern cables are all about contact and shielding quality. As I have quite a bit of sensitive equipment in close proximity to each other / power leads, I just play safe.

 

[PT_2014]

Hello there,

I have some fairly good quality Chord RCA interconnects (Chorus2) and speaker cable which I used with a high end Meridian system with PL100 speakers. Sadly, I had to sell the system as I lost my job but I kept my cables. When I found work I bought the Marantz 6004 CD and Amp with MA RX speakers and connected the cables up and the sound was much improved on the basic cables provided (clear as a bell, open and detailed). In fact the only thing missing from what my high end system provided was the clear soundstage of the Meridian.

I wouldn't advocate spending hundreds and hundreds on good quality cable but I would definitely spend a few bob as it really brings the system to life.

 

[iMark]

I would argue that almost anything in HiFi suffers from the law of diminishing returns. I know that state of the art stuff gives a better reproduction than average stuff. But not as much as the step up from cheap crxp to average gear.

 

[Glacialpath]

Hello JMac as you may have read Interconnects can be sour subject on these forums.

However only your ears will let you know. I think a blind test with some mid priced cables from ebay against your £1.99 one won't yield a big enough difference for you to notice. Hopefully you will.

I didn't get a big enough difference from cables in y system till I changed the digital interconnect between my CDP and DAC and what was there before was an industry standard BNC terminated cable. Granted the Chord Prodac (£60 for 0.5m) there now is much shorter but the audible difference was a lot. The soundstage opened up t become less cluttered.

I then got 2 Chord Chameleon (£120 per meter but I paid half price for both) interconnects to go from my DAC to my Pre and control amps. These improved the sound more but not as much as the Prodac made by itself.

Then my wife won a Chord Anthem (£450 per meter) and putting that on made as big a difference again as the Prodac had.

No doubt other cheaper cables could make a similar difference but I would try different manufacturers and the full price range and see for yourself. Second hand is worth it as in theory high end gear should have been looked after. Avoid paying full price where you can.

 

[Overdose]

Every component in hi-fi is subject to the law of diminishing returns.

...and physics, people seem to forget that bit and believe that certain components somehow defy those laws.

 

[nopiano]

Interestingly, very few i know who've had the chance to play with a number of systems and try different wires report no meaningful improvement (or changes).

Some folks are scientifically persuaded that these things are just illusion and snake oil, or better have been exposed to blind testing which has caught them out; others imagine amost anything and everything has a bearing on sound. Luxury construction and packaging certainly prepare the mind for something better!

I'm definitely in the 'it makes a difference' camp, but wires are often not as important as general set up and alignment of speakers. But if you have any tendency towards 'tidyness' then neatly run wires and a spotless system always sounds better than otherwise. Just like my car is smoother when I've washed it!

 

[iceman16]

Im not sure if the cables I use(MIT) can be considered as just a simple cables..I am a big fan of Tellurium Q but when I use the MIT it's just a different story. Some will say expectation bias but I don't think so..the MIT's (AVtMA's/ Matrix 12 xlr) they have a box with passive resistors,inductors,capasitors.

 

[Overdose]

Im not sure if the cables I use(MIT) can be considered as just a simple cables..I am a big fan of Tellurium Q but when I use the MIT it's just a different story. Some will say expectation bias but I don't think so..the MIT's (AVtMA's/ Matrix 12 xlr) they have a box with passive resistors,inductors,capasitors.

I'm not surprised that they sound different. It sounds like they are effectively filters and that's not a good thing.

 

[iceman16]

Im not sure if the cables I use(MIT) can be considered as just a simple cables..I am a big fan of Tellurium Q but when I use the MIT it's just a different story. Some will say expectation bias but I don't think so..the MIT's (AVtMA's/ Matrix 12 xlr) they have a box with passive resistors,inductors,capasitors.

I'm not surprised that they sound different. It sounds like they are effectively filters and that's not a good thing.

NO! and NO! Overdose... Have you heard them?

 

[iceman16]

Im not sure if the cables I use(MIT) can be considered as just a simple cables..I am a big fan of Tellurium Q but when I use the MIT it's just a different story. Some will say expectation bias but I don't think so..the MIT's (AVtMA's/ Matrix 12 xlr) they have a box with passive resistors,inductors,capasitors.

I'm not surprised that they sound different. It sounds like they are effectively filters and that's not a good thing.

Sorry OD..but If have the ££ I'll have them in my bed