Improve AV Amp 2 channel music for nothing.

[Native_bon]

Hey guys just want to share this information here. I have been to so many hifi shops, and time & time again, most of the guys... corrected, all of the sales persons at specialist hifi shops think when you engage pure direct for music you get full front stereo performance but you dn't!! I mention this time & time again but their argue with me about this. Only after i ask for them to go into the set up & find out that even when pure direct is engaged the auto calibration still controls volume level for left & right channels.

Now this is were it gets interesting. Increasing left & right channels to 100% you get a total different performance from your Av amp in pure direct mode. More dynamic & over all openess in the sound. Also more control of the speakers. All the shops were I made this know were very surprise this was the case.

The only draw back will be if you cannot change output of left & right on the fly, then you would have to do this in display setup to change levels to watch movies

So any one who has not tried this you may be surprised. Just take the left & right 100% and spin some music.

 

[rendu]

What do you mean increasing left & right to 100%? Is this something specific to some brands? Do you mean to turn up the volume to max? Sorry I do not understand. All my speakers are 100% connected, not sure that I have an option to connect them only 60 % or so... thanks for clarifying.

 

[Native_bon]

What do you mean increasing left & right to 100%? Is this something specific to some brands? Do you mean to turn up the volume to max? Sorry I do not understand. All my speakers are 100% connected, not sure that I have an option to connect them only 60 % or so... thanks for clarifying.

Yes I mean turn up the volume from the setup manual or display setup were you adjust the out put for each speaker.. In this case not refering to the the main volume control. Hope this clears things up.

 

[AmigaNut]

Hi,

Think he means go in to the speaker set up ion the av amp and push the volume to 100% wich is plus 10 on my Yam.

The amps default to midway on the standard setup for all speakers connected.

AmigaNut

 

[drummerman]

Must try that, if I have the option.

I do wonder though if that is more akin to gain in an analogue pre-amp than using the volume out on a pc in the digital domain at less than 100% thus loosing bit rate? If it is the former could'nt this just raise the noise floor and negate any real benefit and if it is the latter it wouldn't be direct? - Does that make ANY sense?

I'll have a go later and thanks for the hint pet.

regards

 

[Native_bon]

By increasing the output you get more drive behind the speakers. Tried it time & again. Does not add noise at all. It the same as turning your pre amp down or up on a pre-amp / power amp combo. I produce music & one of the the golden rules of recording is to always make you source sound as loud as possible without distortion. By doing this you actually reduce background noise, as suppose to increasing it.

 

[The_Lhc]

By increasing the output you get more drive behind the speakers. Tried it time & again. Does not add noise at all. It the same as turning your pre amp down or up on a pre-amp / power amp combo.

Isn't it just the same as turning the amp up a bit more?

I produce music & one of the the golden rules of recording is to always make you source sound as loud as possible without distortion.

Yes but you're not adjusting the source levels though, you're turning the volume up on those two channels surely?

 

[ellisdj]

I think he is saying this and he right to a certain degree - even in prue direct mode the signal is still passing through a D/A convertor that will reduce or boost the levels for the L&R as setup by the auto calibration

Therefore if you adjust the output level of the speakers L & R to their maximum + whater ever db they go to it will sound better?

That doesnt seem a good idea - the only good idea related to that which will work positively will be to set their output levels at 0. Therefore there will be no digital attenuation on the signal and especially no boosting of the signal in the premap section.

That makes sense to do that and just use a different memory number for music and 1 for films.

 

[drummerman]

I can only adjust level (+/- 10db) on centre, rears etc but not the fronts.

On my receiver, 2 channel (direct) is for bypassing 'all' soundprocessing though it still allows for a few parameters to be switched into the path if needed though they are limited to 3 and by default or set to 'off'. -

Only the 5.1 channel inputs seem to totally circumnavigate the processor and directly link to the volume pot. No adjustments are possible.

Either option sounds very good to me.

regards

 

[Thompsonuxb]

I have the speaker levels set to +10db & large speakers.

It also helps to turn off all unused channels and all effects ( don't bother with 'Normal/stereo' from the DSP) and use your cdp as a transport and take advantage of the DAC - digital (coax) out on your player into a digital in (coax to me sounds alot better than optical) on your rx'er, this makes the most difference to my amp and drives my speakers really clean. With a full bodied sound.

that untapped power output gives my amp excellent dynamics (well I think thats the reason anyway)

 

[Native_bon]

Well most people who say AV amps cn't play music are not aware that all Av amps default is 0db. But taking this up to the full output the amp really starts singing.

 

[Native_bon]

By increasing the output you get more drive behind the speakers. Tried it time & again. Does not add noise at all. It the same as turning your pre amp down or up on a pre-amp / power amp combo.

Isn't it just the same as turning the amp up a bit more?

I produce music & one of the the golden rules of recording is to always make you source sound as loud as possible without distortion.

Yes but you're not adjusting the source levels though, you're turning the volume up on those two channels surely?

Well the source in this case is the pre-amp of the AV amp. When adjusting volume levels for each suround channel( left & right, center, suround Left & right) when watching movies, this also affects the level of front level left & right weather in pure direct mode or not.

 

[BenLaw]

By increasing the output you get more drive behind the speakers. Tried it time & again. Does not add noise at all. It the same as turning your pre amp down or up on a pre-amp / power amp combo.

Isn't it just the same as turning the amp up a bit more?

I produce music & one of the the golden rules of recording is to always make you source sound as loud as possible without distortion.

Yes but you're not adjusting the source levels though, you're turning the volume up on those two channels surely?

Well the source in this case is the pre-amp of the AV amp.

That makes no sense, pre-amp is not the source (blu ray etc is the source), it is the means of altering the volume. So it sounds like you're just talking about a different way of adjusting the volume. For example, you might set the 'output' to +30 but then have volume at -60. This would be the same as 'output' defaulting to zero and having volume at -30.

I'm prepared for there to be a technical explanation why this is wrong, but I don't think you have it.

 

[Native_bon]

By increasing the output you get more drive behind the speakers. Tried it time & again. Does not add noise at all. It the same as turning your pre amp down or up on a pre-amp / power amp combo.

Isn't it just the same as turning the amp up a bit more?

I produce music & one of the the golden rules of recording is to always make you source sound as loud as possible without distortion.

Yes but you're not adjusting the source levels though, you're turning the volume up on those two channels surely?

Well the source in this case is the pre-amp of the AV amp.

That makes no sense, pre-amp is not the source (blu ray etc is the source), it is the means of altering the volume. So it sounds like you're just talking about a different way of adjusting the volume. For example, you might set the 'output' to +30 but then have volume at -60. This would be the same as 'output' defaulting to zero and having volume at -30.

I'm prepared for there to be a technical explanation why this is wrong, but I don't think you have it.

Benlaw have you actually tried this for your self. I very much know what am talking about. I think you need to find out more before you make a fool of urself. Yes cdp & bluerays are source. In this case by increasing the volume of the left & right channels from the pre-amp stage of the Av amp you reduce background noise to the power amp section. If you have the main volume at 40db & the left & right output at the preamp stage at +12bd as suppose to 0db. The Av amp will sound much louder at 40db. This will be the case if you reduce the main volume from 40db to30db the preamp stage will still remain at +12db. Simples.!! Increasing the preamp stage does not reduce the output of the main volume.

 

[BenLaw]

Any change in volume is at the preamp stage. How else are you suggesting volume is changed?

 

[Native_bon]

Any change in volume is at the preamp stage. How else are you suggesting volume is changed?

When you go into the setup page to adjust the speaker levels of the Av amp, you max out the left & right channels. Benlaw is that not simple enough to understand..? By so doing you have maximum power output. That then remains contant. Then you use the main voulme control as asusal to control over all levels.

 

[drummerman]

Strange that I dont have that option for the fronts only for the rears etc.

regards

 

[BenLaw]

It's not simple enough to understand for me. I repeat my point above:

Any change in volume is at the preamp stage. How else are you suggesting volume is changed?

 

[Native_bon]

It's not simple enough to understand for me. I repeat my point above:

Any change in volume is at the preamp stage. How else are you suggesting volume is changed?

Well Benlaw you just playing the fools game. Anyone who reads my explanation will most certainly understand. I think most people will see through you. Anyway never expect less from regular users. (Any change in volume ia at the preamp stage)...is not a statement nor a question.

 

[Native_bon]

It's not simple enough to understand for me. I repeat my point above:

Any change in volume is at the preamp stage. How else are you suggesting volume is changed?

Looked at most of your post on here seems ur just playing the fool. No surprise..

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Just stumbled briefly out of bed with a massive headache so pardon if I'm blunt. I know stuff all about AV, but Ben Law has to be right. You're increasing the gain from the preamp, that's all. Besides, if you want stereo, get a stereo amp.

Done the aspirin so back to bed for me.

 

[drummerman]

Just stumbled briefly out of bed with a massive headache so pardon if I'm blunt. I know stuff all about AV, but Ben Law has to be right. You're increasing the gain from the preamp, that's all. Besides, if you want stereo, get a stereo amp.

Done the aspirin so back to bed for me.

Mmmmh, all gone a bit tense considering the OP only tried to help. Yes, increasing gain in Pre-amplifiers can increase noise, more so if designed poorly. - As to only using stereo amplifiers for 2 channel music de-facto ... I'd have to disagree with that one.

Happy dreams

regards

 

[BenLaw]

It's not simple enough to understand for me. I repeat my point above:

Any change in volume is at the preamp stage. How else are you suggesting volume is changed?

Looked at most of your post on here seems ur just playing the fool. No surprise..

I don't know what you mean, all I've done is say I don't understand what you mean, I think you're wrong (tho no doubt well meaning) and ask for a better, technical explanation. The difficulty may be that you think you have provided that, when in fact you have not.

Alternatively, the week delay in your reply may indeed be because you have been searching through the majority of my posts.

 

[Native_bon]

It's not simple enough to understand for me. I repeat my point above:

Any change in volume is at the preamp stage. How else are you suggesting volume is changed?

Looked at most of your post on here seems ur just playing the fool. No surprise..

I don't know what you mean, all I've done is say I don't understand what you mean, I think you're wrong (tho no doubt well meaning) and ask for a better, technical explanation. The difficulty may be that you think you have provided that, when in fact you have not.

Alternatively, the week delay in your reply may indeed be because you have been searching through the majority of my posts.

Well I will ask the same question again have any of you tried what i said in the first post. If you have not then you you got no legs to stand. I have tired it time & time again. It does improve performance. Unless ur making this an arugement about stereo amp & an Av amp, then i will understand why u arugue blindly.

when you try this out for your self then come back & make your piont untill then, I think you got no leg to stand on. The week delay its cause i got a life & am curently aboard working on a music production project.

I got alife other than this forum!!

 

[BenLaw]

1. I'm very happy with my av setup and do not want to play around with the settings. I'm not overly fussed about stereo playback through that system as I have a separate setup for that.

2. This is not about making an argument 'without a leg to stand on'. You will be well aware that people can perceive differences when they do not in fact exist. I suspect that may be happening here, which is why I questioned the technical explanation for this supposed phenomenon. You don't have one. Therefore, I prefer my (possibly wrong) understanding of how the volume level will work over your subjective and uninformed opinion.

3. You claimed to have read 'most of my posts' over the last week. That would not be having a life. You also claim to have concluded that I 'play the fool' in most of them. I find this a bizarre conclusion. In reality, you lied about reading my posts and reaching the conclusion you did. This further damages your credibility.