if.......

[lindsayt]

Only problem i see is the very high price that may make me stick with scm40s

What in your opinion would be a atc scm100 competitor?

ATC 100 beaters (according to my tastes)

JBL Hartsfields,

Klipschorns, Klipsch Jubilees

Bozak Symphony or Concert Grand

Altec Vott, Model 19

EV Patricians

Living Voice Vox Olympians

Avant Garde Trio

 

[lindsayt]

By the way the Altec Model 19 crosses over at 1200 hz and that has a 15" bass driver. Go listen to a pair yourselves and decide how big an issue that is.

Don't listen to anyone coming out with highly biased marketing rhetoric. Make up your own minds.

 

[Andrewjvt]

Thanks lots of very interesting thoughts and reading for me iver next few days. IPV: Thats not big enough lol.
Im going to read about all mentioned and learn abit.

Ive been thinking about driver size and style products for ages

 

[nopiano]

Are any of your choices in current production? I know a few of them aren't but I am being lazy by not looking up each one!

While I appreciate the physics, so few seem to use huge drivers, even on very costly designs like KEF Blades, Wilson Audio, and Sonus faber, I wonder if the multiple smaller bass unit approach has any merit in your eyes/ to your ears? I really can't remember seeing bigger than 12" recently, even in sub woofers.

 

[lindsayt]

Klipschorns, Living Voice and Avant Garde are all in current production.

The thing with multiple smaller driver designs is the bass extension. All down to the natural resonant frequencies of the drivers. You could use multiple small drivers and equalisation.

The bigger Wilson speakers are good. Not quite my cup of tea, but I can understand why some like them a lot.

I've not liked the Sonus Faber speakers I've heard.

 

[nopiano]

Klipschorns, Living Voice and Avant Garde are all in current production.

The thing with multiple smaller driver designs is the bass extension. All down to the natural resonant frequencies of the drivers. You could use multiple small drivers and equalisation.

The bigger Wilson speakers are good. Not quite my cup of tea, but I can understand why some like them a lot.

I've not liked the Sonus Faber speakers I've heard.

. Thanks for your thoughts. I must look up those current ones. I'm with you on the Wilsons, but a fraction too analytical for me. Needless to say, I like most Sonus fabers!

 

[Andrewjvt]

Ive very quickly checked these out while at work.
Big beasts but also not cheap. Later ill look more and learn more.
Btw the looks does not put me off at all

 

[Andrewjvt]

Of the jbl m2?

 

[lpv]

Of the jbl m2?

JBL M2 are passive

 

[Andrewjvt]

Only problem i see is the very high price that may make me stick with scm40s

What in your opinion would be a atc scm100 competitor?

ATC 100 beaters (according to my tastes)

JBL Hartsfields,

Klipschorns, Klipsch Jubilees

Bozak Symphony or Concert Grand

Altec Vott, Model 19

EV Patricians

Living Voice Vox Olympians

Avant Garde Trio

Looks dont come between me and sq but those klipshorns were pushing it.

More interesting for me and wat way off my price range were the avant garde - they look great.

lindsayt: could i ask you to send me a link for modern klipshorns available now if you have time?

 

[lpv]

Of the jbl m2?

recommended power amp into 8ohms - 1200 watts

 

[lindsayt]

http://www.klipsch.com/products/klipschorn-floorstanding-speaker

You could contact Klipsch for your nearest dealer.

You see Klipschorns on ebay often enough.

 

[chebby]

http://www.klipsch.com/dealers?c=GB

http://www.audiocounsel.co.uk/brands/klipsch/

 

[Vladimir]

Of the jbl m2?

JBL M2 are passive

Not exactly. They don't have a crossover and are sold together with two Crown power amps with integrated DSP.

 

[Andrewjvt]

http://www.klipsch.com/products/klipschorn-floorstanding-speaker

You could contact Klipsch for your nearest dealer.

You see Klipschorns on ebay often enough.

A quick read of the specs and info regards those speakers and they look super impressive.
Very Low distortion at high volume and very efficient. A lot of similar quality of atc imo also very expensive though at £13 000 but very great.

 

[Andrewjvt]

Im going to head back ti musicraft over the next few weeks and listen again to scm40s then also scm100 active pro to get a feel then also scm 40s with jl 12 inch sub and see what i think/feel/hear.

The main thing is cost per sound value and satisfying my doubts/mind so i dont regret in any way my next purchase as this will be my sound system until it breaks

 

[lpv]

Of the jbl m2?

JBL M2 are passive

Not exactly. They don't have a crossover and are sold together with two Crown power amps with integrated DSP.

true. I'm reading about them now.. I thought these are passive.. costly with required amps but then no more than ATC or even less than PMC

 

[steve_1979]

Of the jbl m2?

JBL M2 are passive

Not exactly. They don't have a crossover and are sold together with two Crown power amps with integrated DSP.

That's right. The JBL M2 is a proper active speaker with the active crossover and other DPS features built into the Crown amplfiers.

There are two separate stereo amplifiers used (i.e. each speaker has it's own stereo amplifier with 1200w going to the bass driver and 1200w going to the compression driver).

 

[steve_1979]

Damn good drivers.

Looking at that picture they start going into cone breakup at 180Hz which is about the frequency that typical 15" bass drivers normally start breaking up at.

The 180Hz cone breakup is well below the 800Hz crossover so surely it would be audible even if they do stay reasonably well behaved upto 1kHz.

 

[Vladimir]

Damn good drivers.

Looking at that picture they start going into cone breakup at 180Hz which is about the frequency that typical 15" bass drivers normally start breaking up at.

The 180Hz cone breakup is well below the 800Hz crossover so surely it would be audible even if they do stay reasonably well behaved upto 1kHz.

You are blasting music with 96dB at 200Hz before you get that small ridge. Shouldn't be an issue that would spoil your listening or using the speaker professionally. When everything implemented in a full active setup you get a listening window that is iron flat. I have no doubt JBL can make a perfect prototype. The real issue is can it be made in mass production for realistic prices. This is where all compromises happen.

Here is one of the best 15" drivers Eminence makes, the DEFINIMAX 4015LF. The graph has a lot of smoothing compared to the JBL one, but it is clear that the breakup mode starts at 400Hz and goes haywire onward. So effectively this is a 50Hz-400Hz driver.

Eminence Kappa Lite 3015 is better behaved above 400Hz, but it has that breakup at the same freq.

 

[lindsayt]

Looking at that picture they start going into cone breakup at 180Hz which is about the frequency that typical 15" bass drivers normally start breaking up at.

The 180Hz cone breakup is well below the 800Hz crossover so surely it would be audible even if they do stay reasonably well behaved upto 1kHz.

All I see is a frequency response curve. Which tells me almost next to nothing about how the speakers actually sound.

Let's try listening to them to find out how they sound. Instead of making things up by looking at a graph.

 

[Vladimir]

Im going to head back ti musicraft over the next few weeks and listen again to scm40s then also scm100 active pro to get a feel then also scm 40s with jl 12 inch sub and see what i think/feel/hear.

The main thing is cost per sound value and satisfying my doubts/mind so i dont regret in any way my next purchase as this will be my sound system until it breaks

 

[Andrewjvt]

Im going to head back ti musicraft over the next few weeks and listen again to scm40s then also scm100 active pro to get a feel then also scm 40s with jl 12 inch sub and see what i think/feel/hear.

The main thing is cost per sound value and satisfying my doubts/mind so i dont regret in any way my next purchase as this will be my sound system until it breaks

If i ever win the lottery ill send you also a pair lol

 

[Andrewjvt]

Are works of art as well as great Design
On my todo list to listen one day. Id never be able to afford them though

Very nice

 

[DocG]

Are works of art as well as great Design On my todo list to listen one day. Id never be able to afford them though

Very nice

Mere mortals can't afford a new Trio + basshorn system, that's for sure -- then again we don't have the room to properly accomodate them anyway...

A pair of Zero 1s though... This offer has apparently been withdrawn, but it shows they're definitely within reach! And boy, do they sound awesome! *wacko*

EDIT: here's my thoughts after my first audition (some two years ago).