if.......

[lpv]

The part that makes the DM10 special over other speakers is that there's no cone break up on the mid-bass driver until 4kHz. That's very rare for a 6.5" driver.

This along with the 8th order crossover means that they're totally phase perfect at the crossover point. I can confirm that with a sine wave sweep* these are probably the cleanest sounding speakers that I've come across and it's this which really makes the difference when listening to the mid-range clarity of music.

The integration of the DM10 bass driver and the tweeter is totally seamless as far as my ears can tell. With a sine wave sweep the transition from bass driver to tweeter is usually noticable on other 6.5" speakers. Quite a few 5" active speakers are good in this respect but they tend to lack the power and 'punch' that larger 6.5" speakers have and the DM10 is the only speaker that I've come across that can do both of these things really well without any compromise.

* I always try to use a sine wave sweep as well as music when comparing speakers. A sine wave sweep will clearly highlight issues that can be tricky pin point when only listening to music.

you clearly like the product.. and that's great.. money, room, wife, gf, whatever no object you would still choose same speakers and that says a lot !

 

[DocG]

I'd go for this Avantgarde combo. Front-end to be decided.

 

[steve_1979]

you clearly like the product.. and that's great.. money, room, wife, gf, whatever no object you would still choose same speakers and that says a lot !

I've still never heard an electrostatic or other panel speaker yet though. I'd like to give them a try if space and money was no object.

 

[steve_1979]

Steve_1979, when and where did you demo ATC 50's against AVI ADM10's?

I haven't personally compared them directly. It was several years ago when I heard the big ATC's. But I did compare them to the Westone earphones which I still own. The Westone earphones were about on a par with the ATC's for clarity and detail but my new AVI DM10 speakers are significantly clearer than the Westones.

AlmaataKZ who's a forum member both here and on the AVI forum owns both the ATC SCM50A and the AVI DM10 speakers. He's said a couple of times that the DM10 have better clarity than ATC's but the ATC's have better dynamic range than the DM10's and sound more effortless at high volume levels (god knows how loud he must be playing them!).

 

[steve_1979]

But it would be very hard to swing me now to actives

Fair enough. It's only a suggestion anyhow. So long as you're happy with what you have and are enjoying the music that's all that matters anyway.

The DM10 aren't for everyone to be fair. They're basically a better, clearer version of the old ADM9 with a more bass and a sharper stereo image to boot. But for anyone who didn't get on with the old ADM9 they probably won't like the new DM10 either as they're not a million miles apart.

 

[steve_1979]

The part that makes the DM10 special over other speakers is that there's no cone break up on the mid-bass driver until 4kHz. That's very rare for a 6.5" driver.

This along with the 8th order crossover means that they're totally phase perfect at the crossover point. I can confirm that with a sine wave sweep* these are probably the cleanest sounding speakers that I've come across and it's this which really makes the difference when listening to the mid-range clarity of music.

The integration of the DM10 bass driver and the tweeter is totally seamless as far as my ears can tell. With a sine wave sweep the transition from bass driver to tweeter is usually noticable on other 6.5" speakers. Quite a few 5" active speakers are good in this respect but they tend to lack the power and punch that larger 6.5" speakers have and the DM10 is the only speaker that I've come across which can do both of these things really well without any compromise.

* I always try to use a sine wave sweep as well as music when comparing speakers. A sine wave sweep will clearly highlight issues that can be tricky to pin point when only using music.

 

[steve_1979]

I've heard many times both HD700 and HD800 and to me they are different headphones.. I like 700 more but then I don't like Sennheiser sound much.. It may be the same with AVI.. I honestly don't think ATC and AVI have similar presentation and balance.. if we carry on with headphones analogy ATC presentation is far from Sennheiser.. Some Denon or Ultrasone models comes to mind..

Ahhh. They may not be to your taste then. As I say imagine what the HD700 with a slight bass boost is like and you've got a rough aproximation of what the DM10 2.1 system is like. I'd say that the HD700 is a bit 'drier' sounding and less natural than the DM10 too. They're pretty close though when you bare in mind that comparing speakers to headphones is always a bit odd as the stereo image and bass feel totally different with headphones IMO.

Have you got any DM10 frequency response graph ready to share?

The AVI website says "Bass extension is better than - 6dB @ 50 Hz."

Also from the AVI website here's a print out of the mid-bass driver on it's own without a crossover or tweeter used.

 

[Andrewjvt]

The part that makes the DM10 special over other speakers is that there's no cone break up on the mid-bass driver until 4kHz. That's very rare for a 6.5" driver.

This along with the 8th order crossover means that they're totally phase perfect at the crossover point. I can confirm that with a sine wave sweep* these are probably the cleanest sounding speakers that I've come across and it's this which really makes the difference when listening to the mid-range clarity of music.

The integration of the DM10 bass driver and the tweeter is totally seamless as far as my ears can tell. With a sine wave sweep the transition from bass driver to tweeter is usually noticable on other 6.5" speakers. Quite a few 5" active speakers are good in this respect but they tend to lack the power and punch that larger 6.5" speakers have and the DM10 is the only speaker that I've come across which can do both of these things really well without any compromise.

?

* I always try to use a sine wave sweep as well as music when comparing speakers. A sine wave sweep will clearly highlight issues that can be tricky to pin point when only using music.

Ice read half last night - the thread about the guy who has scm50 active and the same speakers as you. Very good thread. Im half way through so will continue later. I will still go atc as my mind is made up but i will watch and read re those active of yours more close and also maybe a 2nd system also?

Ps im moving back to sa later in year or early next so the rooms are much bigger and want the full scale of the atc. Im very keen to hear what yours can do though.

 

[Andrewjvt]

1. Get atc scm 40s and run with 1 or 2 JL subs

2. Get a 2nd hand scm100
(Possible upgrade to sl mid range also)

 

[lpv]

1. Get atc scm 40s and run with 1 or 2 JL subs

2. Get a 2nd hand scm100 (Possible upgrade to sl mid range also)

what's your listening room size? I don't think second sub will add anything anyway.. did you try 40's in your room? I have 20sqm and plenty of bottom end coming from 40's..

It's all down to room size I guess but then again I've heard 150's in not much bigger room than mine and bass wasn't issue.. I mean, ATC just make a not boombox speakers*dirol*

 

[Andrewjvt]

1. Get atc scm 40s and run with 1 or 2 JL subs

2. Get a 2nd hand scm100 (Possible upgrade to sl mid range also)

what's your listening room size? I don't think second sub will add anything anyway.. did you try 40's in your room? I have 20sqm and plenty of bottom end coming from 40's..?

It's all down to room size I guess but then again I've heard 150's in not much bigger room than mine and bass wasn't issue.. I mean, ATC just make a not boombox speakers*dirol*

My room now is about 24m2 but in sa the lounge is open plan about 2 - 3 times larger. And yes non boomy for sure.
Im going to have to do lots of demos next few months. Its the temptation of a large 12 inch driver thats making me think twice. I know myself and if i have any doubts ill regret then want to upgrade and this ones for keeps

Im going to have to camp at musicraft.

 

[lpv]

while you there make sure you listen same model, lets say 40 in passive and active version at low volumes and I think you'll like active more.. lower volume levels is 80 - 90% of all our listening anyway..

I know you want to keep Hegel but then we talk here about ultimate solution*bye*

 

[lindsayt]

Given the whole premise of this thread:

"Looks were not important
Space was not an issue
The wife was not an issue
budget was not an issue"

There's no way on Earth I'd even consider for one second AVI actives.

Sonically, based on my listening tests, they are poor to mediocre in the context of this thread.

 

[lpv]

Given the whole premise of this thread:

"Looks were not importantSpace was not an issueThe wife was not an issuebudget was not an issue"

There's no way on Earth I'd even consider for one second AVI actives.

Sonically, based on my listening tests, they are poor to mediocre in the context of this thread.

this is not hard to understand.. what would be your choice the for a given scenario?

 

[Andrewjvt]

Given the whole premise of this thread:

"Looks were not importantSpace was not an issueThe wife was not an issuebudget was not an issue"

There's no way on Earth I'd even consider for one second AVI actives.

Sonically, based on my listening tests, they are poor to mediocre in the context of this thread.

Im thinking about 12 inch drivers
Not 18inch but larger than 6inch

 

[lindsayt]

this is not hard to understand.. what would be your choice the for a given scenario?

See post #45

I would stress that there are plenty of speakers that have the potential to be great in this role that I've not heard yet.

 

[Vladimir]

1. Get atc scm 40s and run with 1 or 2 JL subs

2. Get a 2nd hand scm100 (Possible upgrade to sl mid range also)

what's your listening room size? I don't think second sub will add anything anyway.. did you try 40's in your room? I have 20sqm and plenty of bottom end coming from 40's..

It's all down to room size I guess but then again I've heard 150's in not much bigger room than mine and bass wasn't issue.. I mean, ATC just make a not boombox speakers*dirol*

My room now is about 24m2 but in sa the lounge is open plan about 2 - 3 times larger. And yes non boomy for sure. Im going to have to do lots of demos next few months. Its the temptation of a large 12 inch driver thats making me think twice. I know myself and if i have any doubts ill regret then want to upgrade and this ones for keeps

Im going to have to camp at musicraft.

Interesting fact is that people who spent a lot of time listening, experimenting and designing speakers, all come to the same conclusion that a 12" driver is absolute minimum for any worthy full range performance with rich harmonics and low distortion. Many of them will even say 15" is the bottom minimum. Normal audiophiles and reviewers who consider swapping speaker wire as tweaking and DIY, but wouldn't dare unscrew a single screw, some of them will naturally disagree.

 

[lpv]

I can swap my living room for this.. I have 2 nice cream leather sofas

 

[Andrewjvt]

I can swap my living room for this.. I have 2 nice cream leather sofas

To the future springs to mind

Awesome

 

[Andrewjvt]

1. Get atc scm 40s and run with 1 or 2 JL subs

2. Get a 2nd hand scm100 (Possible upgrade to sl mid range also)

what's your listening room size? I don't think second sub will add anything anyway.. did you try 40's in your room? I have 20sqm and plenty of bottom end coming from 40's..?

It's all down to room size I guess but then again I've heard 150's in not much bigger room than mine and bass wasn't issue.. I mean, ATC just make a not boombox speakers*dirol*

My room now is about 24m2 but in sa the lounge is open plan about 2 - 3 times larger. And yes non boomy for sure. Im going to have to do lots of demos next few months. Its the temptation of a large 12 inch driver thats making me think twice. I know myself and if i have any doubts ill regret then want to upgrade and this ones for keeps

Im going to have to camp at musicraft.

Interesting fact is that people who spent a lot of time listening, experimenting and designing speakers, all come to the same conclusion that a 12" driver is absolute minimum for any worthy full range performance with rich harmonics and low distortion. Many of them will even say 15" is the bottom minimum. Normal audiophiles and reviewers who consider swapping speaker wire as tweaking and DIY, but wouldn't dare unscrew a single screw, some of them will naturally disagree. 

Only problem i see is the very high price that may make me stick with scm40s

What in your opinion would be a atc scm100 competitor?

 

[Jota180]

I can swap my living room for this.. I have 2 nice cream leather sofas

See, I'd have those in my room and sell the wife.

 

[lpv]

I can swap my living room for this.. I have 2 nice cream leather sofas

To the future springs to mind

Awesome

Hi Andrew.

Your speakerless situation is about to change. I hope size is ok and 1 is enough. The loudspeaker assembly team will follow shortly.

 

[Vladimir]

1. Get atc scm 40s and run with 1 or 2 JL subs

2. Get a 2nd hand scm100 (Possible upgrade to sl mid range also)

what's your listening room size? I don't think second sub will add anything anyway.. did you try 40's in your room? I have 20sqm and plenty of bottom end coming from 40's..

It's all down to room size I guess but then again I've heard 150's in not much bigger room than mine and bass wasn't issue.. I mean, ATC just make a not boombox speakers*dirol*

My room now is about 24m2 but in sa the lounge is open plan about 2 - 3 times larger. And yes non boomy for sure. Im going to have to do lots of demos next few months. Its the temptation of a large 12 inch driver thats making me think twice. I know myself and if i have any doubts ill regret then want to upgrade and this ones for keeps

Im going to have to camp at musicraft.

Interesting fact is that people who spent a lot of time listening, experimenting and designing speakers, all come to the same conclusion that a 12" driver is absolute minimum for any worthy full range performance with rich harmonics and low distortion. Many of them will even say 15" is the bottom minimum. Normal audiophiles and reviewers who consider swapping speaker wire as tweaking and DIY, but wouldn't dare unscrew a single screw, some of them will naturally disagree.

Only problem i see is the very high price that may make me stick with scm40s

What in your opinion would be a atc scm100 competitor?

JBL M2

 

[steve_1979]

JBL M2

The M2 looks like a really cool speaker but it has an 800Hz crossover. How on earth can they get a 15" bass driver to go upto 800Hz without it effecting the sound?

 

[Vladimir]

JBL M2

The M2 looks like a really cool speaker but it has an 800Hz crossover. How on earth can they get a 15" bass driver to go upto 800Hz without it effecting the sound?

Damn good drivers.