if.......

[ID.]

I'd be checking out top of the range active monitors. Usually among the ugliest speakers around.

fostex's three way monitors developed for NHK and powered by three Accuphase power amps not mounted within the speaker would be my starting point.

 

[steve_1979]

I'd opt for the JBL M2 Active System. ASFAIK it has the best measurements in HiFi and is the definition of state of the art. So I'd love to know whether that would translate into me liking it.

They look interesting. Clicky

Interesting that JBL go to all that trouble to produce those for professional recording studios.

Such a pity then that much of the music coming out of those studios sounds like carp.

It looks like an interesting design though. A large 15" two-way floorstander with an 800Hz active crossover and a pair of 1.2kW per channel Crown amplifiers.

I'd like to hear what they sounds like at the crossover point with a sine wave sweep. I find it hard to believe that those two drivers could integrate seamlessly.

 

[radiorog]

What crystal meth can buy you, in case you were wondering

 

[Ajani]

I'd opt for the JBL M2 Active System. ASFAIK it has the best measurements in HiFi and is the definition of state of the art. So I'd love to know whether that would translate into me liking it.

They look interesting. Clicky

Interesting that JBL go to all that trouble to produce those for professional recording studios.

Such a pity then that much of the music coming out of those studios sounds like carp.

It looks like an interesting design though. A large 15" two-way floorstander with an 800Hz active crossover and a pair of 1.2kW per channel Crown amplifiers.

I'd like to hear what they sounds like at the crossover point with a sine wave sweep. I find it hard to believe that those two drivers could integrate seamlessly.

While I get your concern, considering the kind of measurments Harman does for speakers and the bragging they are doing with this as their statement pair, I can't imagine a simple sine wave sweep revealing any serious issues. But it would be fun to see what those results look like.

 

[woodster]

KEF Reference 1

 

[steve_1979]

I'd opt for the JBL M2 Active System. ASFAIK it has the best measurements in HiFi and is the definition of state of the art. So I'd love to know whether that would translate into me liking it.

They look interesting. Clicky

Interesting that JBL go to all that trouble to produce those for professional recording studios.

Such a pity then that much of the music coming out of those studios sounds like carp.

It looks like an interesting design though. A large 15" two-way floorstander with an 800Hz active crossover and a pair of 1.2kW per channel Crown amplifiers.

I'd like to hear what they sounds like at the crossover point with a sine wave sweep. I find it hard to believe that those two drivers could integrate seamlessly.

While I get your concern, considering the kind of measurments Harman does for speakers and the bragging they are doing with this as their statement pair, I can't imagine a simple sine wave sweep revealing any serious issues. But it would be fun to see what those results look like.

I agree and no doubt they know what they're doing at JBL/Harman. There's a lot of very clever stuff gone in the the design of that speaker. I expect they've done a fantastic job with it but a 15" bass driver and that single compression driver/tweeter/horn/wave guide thingy integrating properly goes against all my instincts. I'm probably totally wrong though.

 

[Andrewjvt]

To let ya all know that i sold my kef r700s last night to a very nice guy that will look after them well.

He has a naim super nait.
When i demod him i explained that his anp may sound a little more lively but he really enjoyed the sound anyway.
Was very funny as as soon as we got down to listening he said straight away that after he has these speakers hes done with upgrade.

Then after 15 min when i was showing him Atcs he was thinking again so his friend pulled him up

 

[lpv]

To let ya all know that i sold my kef r700s last night to a very nice guy that will look after them well.

He has a naim super nait. When i demod him i explained that his anp may sound a little more lively but he really enjoyed the sound anyway. Was very funny as as soon as we got down to listening he said straight away that after he has these speakers hes done with upgrade.

Then after 15 min when i was showing him Atcs he was thinking again so his friend pulled him up

great !! did you go for SCM40 ?

 

[davedotco]

I'd opt for the JBL M2 Active System. ASFAIK it has the best measurements in HiFi and is the definition of state of the art. So I'd love to know whether that would translate into me liking it.

They look interesting. Clicky

Interesting that JBL go to all that trouble to produce those for professional recording studios.

Such a pity then that much of the music coming out of those studios sounds like carp.

Only mass market pap or, even worse, great music remastered to sound like pap.

I blame hip-hop...*dirol*

Actually there have been some interesting and potentially important recordings that have been ruined by the 'loudness wars', or whatever. Not all mass market music is pap.

As all comments on musical 'taste' should be.

My 'taste' in popular music is verywide and yes, it does include some modern pop and even hip-hop though to be fair, not very much.

Though if you have any examples of 'potentially important recordings' ruined by over compression I would like to check them out. Genuine enquiry, I am interested in such things.

 

[davedotco]

I'd opt for the JBL M2 Active System. ASFAIK it has the best measurements in HiFi and is the definition of state of the art. So I'd love to know whether that would translate into me liking it.

They look interesting. Clicky

Interesting that JBL go to all that trouble to produce those for professional recording studios.

Such a pity then that much of the music coming out of those studios sounds like carp.

It looks like an interesting design though. A large 15" two-way floorstander with an 800Hz active crossover and a pair of 1.2kW per channel Crown amplifiers.

I'd like to hear what they sounds like at the crossover point with a sine wave sweep. I find it hard to believe that those two drivers could integrate seamlessly.

While I get your concern, considering the kind of measurments Harman does for speakers and the bragging they are doing with this as their statement pair, I can't imagine a simple sine wave sweep revealing any serious issues. But it would be fun to see what those results look like.

I agree and no doubt they know what they're doing at JBL/Harman. There's a lot of very clever stuff gone in the the design of that speaker. I expect they've done a fantastic job with it but a 15" bass driver and that single compression driver/tweeter/horn/wave guide thingy integrating properly goes against all my instincts. I'm probably totally wrong though.

The M2 is an interesting speaker and goes against most of Harman/JBLs developement work over the years. That said their latest designs revert to the 'purity' of the 2 way model, from Vlad's tiny '305s up to the M2s.

In a sense it is a throwback, perhaps even an homage, to JBL's classic 4320, the first purpose built studio monitor. This...

A restored pair, not quite accurate as they were only ever meant as a 2 way, the blanked off cutout for the super tweeter are not original and they are missing the 2308 acoustic lense over the HF unit.

Sonically the integration was better than you might imagine, the 15" bass driverswere pretty sensitive, fast and dynamic, so they matched up pretty well to the lightning fast compression driver.

Naturally the bass driver was pretty directional towards the 800hz crossover point but then so was the short exponential horn, The 2308 lense was often not used in the studio so the speakers were pretty directional, an advantage given the mimimal room treatments in the 60's and early 70's. All you needed were some traps to control the bass.

All in all the results were rather better than you might imagine and a huge improvement in the state of the art.

FWIW. I used to own a pair of the later 3 way versions, the 4332, active versions of the 4333.

 

[Andrewjvt]

To let ya all know that i sold my kef r700s last night to a very nice guy that will look after them well.

He has a naim super nait. When i demod him i explained that his anp may sound a little more lively but he really enjoyed the sound anyway. Was very funny as as soon as we got down to listening he said straight away that after he has these speakers hes done with upgrade.

Then after 15 min when i was showing him Atcs he was thinking again so his friend pulled him up

great !! did you go for SCM40 ?

I have not got them yet as still saving but in getting closer. I think what im trying to do is see if id orefer to wait and get 50s or 100s instead so i dont get the bug again. Problem for me is the price - way to expensive but maybe Rick has a good 2nd hand set waiting to be gobbled up. For now only saving the bucks.

But its only Atc for me now as that mid range has me totally fixed.

Btw in the future ill be building a atc 5.1 also wi5h a massive c3c center speaker about 30kgs

 

[lpv]

To let ya all know that i sold my kef r700s last night to a very nice guy that will look after them well.

He has a naim super nait. When i demod him i explained that his anp may sound a little more lively but he really enjoyed the sound anyway. Was very funny as as soon as we got down to listening he said straight away that after he has these speakers hes done with upgrade.

Then after 15 min when i was showing him Atcs he was thinking again so his friend pulled him up

great !! did you go for SCM40 ?

I have not got them yet as still saving but in getting closer. I think what im trying to do is see if id orefer to wait and get 50s or 100s instead so i dont get the bug again. Problem for me is the price - way to expensive but maybe Rick has a good 2nd hand set waiting to be gobbled up. For now only saving the bucks.

But its only Atc for me now as that mid range has me totally fixed.

Btw in the future ill be building a atc 5.1 also wi5h a massive c3c center speaker about 30kgs

very well !!!

btw, as the centre speaker is only 30kgs make sure you bolt it to the floor so it wont fly away on a first listen.. good luck with saving !

 

[busb]

I would go for a pair of Ax Horns. The grills & drive units can be removed for cleaning with a pressure hose. Unfortunately, I don't have a hillside to install them into or the valley below to listen to them from.

A more modest solution would be a pair of the TAD reference floorstanders or the more compact CM1s. In the meantime, my new Qaudral Chromium Style 8s are more or less run in now - they were gobsmackingly good out of the box.

 

[Andrewjvt]

I have not got them yet as still saving but in getting closer. I think what im trying to do is see if id orefer to wait and get 50s or 100s instead so i dont get the bug again. Problem for me is the price - way to expensive but maybe Rick has a good 2nd hand set waiting to be gobbled up. For now only saving the bucks.

But its only Atc for me now as that mid range has me totally fixed.

Btw in the future ill be building a atc 5.1 also wi5h a massive c3c center speaker about 30kgs

Before blowing that sort of money on a full 5.1 ATC setup you should listen to some AVI DM10 speakers first. The old WHF forum member AlmaataKZ has a pair of the big ATC SCM50SLAT active speakers in his main system and a pair of AVI DM10 speakers in a second system and agrees that the £1500 DM10 has better clarity and stereo image than the mighty £12,000 ATC speakers.

This isn't ment as a dig at ATC as I think they make some really great speakers but if you're looking at spending that sort of money on an 'end game' system you own it to yourself to hear how special these ordinary looking little speakers really are first. It might save you a small fortune.

They are active and they would make my hegel not needed? Ive already heard atc and love the sound.

 

[lpv]

where a pair of new DM10 can be auditioned please?

steve - did you hear new SCM40 active?

 

[lpv]

where a pair of new DM10 can be auditioned please?

That's the tricky bit I'm afraid. The options are:

1. Go to Nailsworth to see Ash and Martin at AVI.

2. Go to Five Ways hifi shop in Birmingham (I think that there's another hifi shop other shop in London that stocks AVI but I can't remember their name).

3. Ask on the AVI forum to check if there are any DM10 owners in your area. We're a friendly bunch and are usually happy to have guests round for tea and cakes.

4. Buy blind and return them if you don't like them.

steve - did you hear new SCM40 active?

It was several years ago. There was a pair of second hand pair for sale in one of the pro-audio shops in London.

I've heard AVI 9, did not try old SCM 40 and own new SCM 40A.. I mean, it's heard to beat ATC in my opinion.. I like them more then KEF Blade, PMC Two.Two or Opal Event.. I did like AVI 9 but the bass wasn't there for me.. I appreciate accuracy etc but ATC's are accurate too but their low end is solid and full bodied, something I did not experience with 9's.. also all new SCM's have now ATC own tweeter.. just spectacular speakers.. [ however, I wouldn't mind pay less if DM are that good]

 

[Andrewjvt]

But it would be very hard to swing me now to actives

Get that cake and coffee ready lol

 

[steve_1979]

I have not got them yet as still saving but in getting closer. I think what im trying to do is see if id orefer to wait and get 50s or 100s instead so i dont get the bug again. Problem for me is the price - way to expensive but maybe Rick has a good 2nd hand set waiting to be gobbled up. For now only saving the bucks.

But its only Atc for me now as that mid range has me totally fixed.

Btw in the future ill be building a atc 5.1 also wi5h a massive c3c center speaker about 30kgs

Before blowing that sort of money on a full 5.1 ATC setup you should listen to some AVI DM10 speakers first. The old WHF forum member AlmaataKZ has a pair of the big ATC SCM50SLAT active speakers in his main system and a pair of AVI DM10 speakers in a second system and agrees that the £1500 DM10 has better clarity and stereo image than the mighty £12,000 ATC speakers.

This isn't ment as a dig at ATC as I think they make some really great speakers but if you're looking at spending that sort of money on an 'end game' system you owe it to yourself to hear how special these ordinary looking little AVI speakers really are. They may lack the ultimate dynamic range of the big ATC's but if you like their mid-range clarity you'll find that the DM10's are similar but even clearer and more natural sounding. They might just save you a small fortune too.

 

[steve_1979]

They are active and they would make my hegel not needed? Ive already heard atc and love the sound.

That's correct.

As you say "its only Atc for me now as that mid range has me totally fixed" then I expect you'll like the clarity of the DM10 too because it's quite similar but even clearer. They're not the sort of speakers speakers that will suit everyone's taste but people who like ATC tend to be people who want clarity and accuracy in a speaker. I'm not saying you should just go out and buy some but in your situation it'd definitely be worth trying to audition them if you can.

To give you an idea of the difference; the active ATC SMC50SL speakers mid-range clarity is about on par with my Westone UM3x earphones where the DM10 speakers are a solid step up from these and are about on a par with my HD700 headphones for clarity. They sound more natural and realistic too. I know that it's probably hard to believe but I swear it's true.

 

[steve_1979]

I've heard AVI 9, did not try old SCM 40 and own new SCM 40A.. I mean, it's heard to beat ATC in my opinion.. I like them more then KEF Blade, PMC Two.Two or Opal Event.. I did like AVI 9 but the bass wasn't there for me.. I appreciate accuracy etc but ATC's are accurate too but their low end is solid and full bodied, something I did not experience with 9's.. also all new SCM's have now ATC own tweeter.. just spectacular speakers.. [ however, I wouldn't mind pay less if DM are that good]

Those SCM40A look like lovely speakers. You lucky ******!

There have been several improvements to the ADM9 over the years but the DM10 version are the most significant upgrade by quite a large margin (hence the new name to reflect that they're really a new speaker and not just another incremental upgrade). They now have more bass than the ADM9 as well as better clarity. Although personally I still think that using matching AVI subwoofer is the only way to give them a really solid feeling of physical bass that you'd get with big floorstanders.

 

[steve_1979]

where a pair of new DM10 can be auditioned please?

That's the tricky bit I'm afraid. The options are:

1. Go to Nailsworth in Gloucestershire to see Ash and Martin at AVI.

2. Go to Five Ways hifi shop in Birmingham (I think that there's another hifi shop in London that stocks AVI but I can't remember their name).

3. Ask on the AVI forum to check if there are any DM10 owners in your area. We're a friendly bunch and are usually happy to have guests round for tea and cakes while they listen to our speakers.

4. Buy blind and return them if you don't like them.

steve - did you hear new SCM40 active?

It was several years ago and I'm not sure which exact model it was . There was a pair of second hand SCM50ASL or SCM100ASL floorstanders for sale in one of the pro-audio shops in London.

 

[lindsayt]

Steve_1979, when and where did you demo ATC 50's against AVI ADM10's?

 

[lpv]

They are active and they would make my hegel not needed? Ive already heard atc and love the sound.

That's correct.

As you say "its only Atc for me now as that mid range has me totally fixed" then I expect you'll like the clarity of the DM10 too because it's quite similar but even clearer. They're not the sort of speakers speakers that will suit everyone's taste but people who like ATC tend to be people who want clarity and accuracy in a speaker. I'm not saying you should just go out and buy some but in your situation it'd definitely be worth trying to audition them if you can.

To give you an idea of the difference; the active ATC SMC50SL speakers mid-range clarity is about on par with my Westone UM3x earphones where the DM10 speakers are a solid step up from these and are about on a par with my [font="ProximaNova-Semibold, arial, verdana, sans-serif"]HD700[/font] headphones for clarity. They sound more natural and realistic too. I know that it's probably hard to believe but I swear it's true.

interesting.. does it mean on par for clarity alone? I've read on AVI forum DM10 are on par for clarity with HD800... bit confused as these 2 pair of haedphones are rather different sounding?

how about the balance of the DM10? are they sennheiser...ish?

 

[steve_1979]

interesting.. does it mean on par for clarity alone? I've read on AVI forum DM10 are on par for clarity with HD800... bit confused as these 2 pair of haedphones are rather different sounding?

I've never heard the HD800's so I can't comment there. From what I've read there isn't a very big difference between the HD700 and HD800 though.

how about the balance of the DM10? are they sennheiser...ish?

Not that far off. Without any EQ I'd say the HD700 are a bit brighter and leaner sounding than the DM10.

I usually listen to the HD700 with the bass turned up a bit on the EQ though. Once the HD700 have had the bass turned up a fraction they sound quite similar to the DM10's with the subwoofer.

(I have the DM10's playing full-range with no crossover and the subwoofer is set to roll off at 60Hz with the volume turned down so that it's only just audible if I mute the subwoofer on and off while music is playing)

 

[lpv]

I've heard many times both HD700 and HD800 and to me they are different headphones.. I like 700 more but then I don't like Sennheiser sound much.. It may be the same with AVI.. I honestly don't think ATC and AVI have similar presentation and balance.. if we carry on with headphones analogy ATC presentation is far from Sennheiser.. Some Denon or Ultrasone models comes to mind..

Have you got any DM10 frequency response graph ready to share?