if.......

[MUSICRAFT]

Atc for me now as that mid range has me totally fixed.

Hi Andrew

ATC Soft Dome monitoring. The sound of accuracy. Naturally.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[Vladimir]

Does ATC use Vifa dome midrange drivers? Or is it custom job?

 

[lpv]

Does ATC use Vifa dome midrange drivers? Or is it custom job?

http://www.wilmslow-audio.co.uk/atc-sm75-150-midrange-475-p.asp

 

[Andrewjvt]

Does ATC use Vifa dome midrange drivers? Or is it custom job?

http://www.wilmslow-audio.co.uk/atc-sm75-150-midrange-475-p.asp

On this link you can build your own kit scm100 using original atc cones.

Who would of thought atc would supply them even?
Has anyone made a set?

 

[Andrewjvt]

Does ATC use Vifa dome midrange drivers? Or is it custom job?

All the drivers inhouse custom made now. the midrange is the special one. But now in the newer models they have created a new tweeter also that is very good.

 

[lpv]

Does ATC use Vifa dome midrange drivers? Or is it custom job?

http://www.wilmslow-audio.co.uk/atc-sm75-150-midrange-475-p.asp

On this link you can build your own kit scm100 using original atc cones.

Who would of thought atc would supply them even? Has anyone made a set?

go for it.. 5 times cheaper than built by ATC

 

[davedotco]

Does ATC use Vifa dome midrange drivers? Or is it custom job?

http://www.wilmslow-audio.co.uk/atc-sm75-150-midrange-475-p.asp

On this link you can build your own kit scm100 using original atc cones.

Who would of thought atc would supply them even? Has anyone made a set?

go for it.. 5 times cheaper than built by ATC

ATC have I believe always supplied drive units, back in the late 70's virtually their entire output was chassis units for the pa and musical instrument business.

Their studio monitor and hi-fi business came much later.

As is often the case, the quality levels attained by the complete ATC speaker systems is much more than the sum of the parts. The big issue of course are the crossovers, whether passive or active they make the difference and you have to design and build your own.

If you have the skills and the testing facilities, using modern dsp techniques, you could build something quite special. (Note. I have no real idea what is going on at the top end of the studio monitor market, maybe this is already being done...*unknw*)

 

[Andrewjvt]

Does ATC use Vifa dome midrange drivers? Or is it custom job?

http://www.wilmslow-audio.co.uk/atc-sm75-150-midrange-475-p.asp

On this link you can build your own kit scm100 using original atc cones.

Who would of thought atc would supply them even? Has anyone made a set?

go for it.. 5 times cheaper than built by ATC?

ATC have I believe always supplied drive units, back in the late 70's virtually their entire output was chassis units for the pa and musical instrument business.?

Their studio monitor and hi-fi business came much later.

As is often the case, the quality levels attained by the complete ATC speaker systems is much more than the sum of the parts. The big issue of course are the crossovers, whether passive or active they make the difference and you have to design and build your own.

If you have the skills and the testing facilities, using modern dsp techniques, you could build something quite special. (Note. I have no real idea what is going on at the top end of the studio monitor market, maybe this is already being done...*unknw*)

Thats what id worry about. But very interesting to look into. I had a quick look and they also build the cross over so maybe some on here with good knowledge and tell me what they think.

 

[davedotco]

Does ATC use Vifa dome midrange drivers? Or is it custom job?

http://www.wilmslow-audio.co.uk/atc-sm75-150-midrange-475-p.asp

On this link you can build your own kit scm100 using original atc cones.

Who would of thought atc would supply them even? Has anyone made a set?

go for it.. 5 times cheaper than built by ATC

ATC have I believe always supplied drive units, back in the late 70's virtually their entire output was chassis units for the pa and musical instrument business.

Their studio monitor and hi-fi business came much later.

As is often the case, the quality levels attained by the complete ATC speaker systems is much more than the sum of the parts. The big issue of course are the crossovers, whether passive or active they make the difference and you have to design and build your own.

If you have the skills and the testing facilities, using modern dsp techniques, you could build something quite special. (Note. I have no real idea what is going on at the top end of the studio monitor market, maybe this is already being done...*unknw*)

Thats what id worry about. But very interesting to look into. I had a quick look and they also build the cross over so maybe some on here with good knowledge and tell me what they think.

ATC do indeed design and build their own crossovers, whether passive or active but as far as I know they do not sell them. Maybe they publish the design, I don't know, but you will still have to build your own.

 

[chebby]

A bit of ATC history.

http://www.avhub.com.au/features/hi-fi/an-interview-with-billy-woodman-atc-loudspeakers-416431

 

[MUSICRAFT]

I believe ATC don't supply their Super SH25-76 HF unit, Super Soft Dome or the Super Linear Magnet Technology LF units which are used in their domestic and Professional passive/active SCM100 monitors. ATC also don't supply their SH25-76 HF unit which is used in the curved Entry Series of passive/active monitors.

Thanks

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[davedotco]

I believe ATC don't supply their Super SH25-76 HF unit, Super Soft Dome or the Super Linear Magnet Technology LF units which are used in their domestic and Professional passive/active SCM100 monitors. ATC also don't supply their SH25-76 HF unit which is used in the curved Entry Series of passive/active monitors.

Thanks

Rick @ Musicraft

I wonder what they supply to designers and manufacturers like Roger Quested, he has been building monitors with ATC drive units for decades?

Maybe they keep 'special' versions for their own use? I have no idea, but ATC dive units, particularly the midrange dome, are widely used in 'other' monitors.

 

[Andrewjvt]

I believe ATC don't supply their Super SH25-76 HF unit, Super Soft Dome or the Super Linear Magnet Technology LF units which are used in their domestic and Professional passive/active SCM100 monitors. ATC also don't supply their SH25-76 HF unit which is used in the curved Entry Series of passive/active monitors.?

Thanks

Rick @ Musicraft

I wonder what they supply to designers and manufacturers like Roger Quested, he has been building monitors with ATC drive units for decades?

Maybe they keep 'special' versions for their own use? I have no idea, but ATC dive units, particularly the midrange dome, are widely used in 'other' monitors.

You would not have to build the cross over as already made up according to this.

Basic kit:
High-quality crossovers, custom designed for each kit and built on high-grade PCBs
Recessed terminal trays with gold-plated binding posts
Oxygen free copper cable
Damping materials including cabinet lining and internal wadding
Gaskets or sealing strips for drive units
All fixing bolts and screws
Grille Cloth (Black is supplied as standard but other colours are available on request)
Grille fixing studs
Fully detailed assembly instructions, including CAD cabinet drawings
Cabinets and additional options shown separately
Drive units included

How would you know its any good without an audition? The kit costs £1900 and the boxes another £350 ish

 

[Al ears]

I believe ATC don't supply their Super SH25-76 HF unit, Super Soft Dome or the Super Linear Magnet Technology LF units which are used in their domestic and Professional passive/active SCM100 monitors. ATC also don't supply their SH25-76 HF unit which is used in the curved Entry Series of passive/active monitors.

Thanks

Rick @ Musicraft

I wonder what they supply to designers and manufacturers like Roger Quested, he has been building monitors with ATC drive units for decades?

Maybe they keep 'special' versions for their own use? I have no idea, but ATC dive units, particularly the midrange dome, are widely used in 'other' monitors.

You would not have to build the cross over as already made up according to this.

Basic kit: High-quality crossovers, custom designed for each kit and built on high-grade PCBs Recessed terminal trays with gold-plated binding posts Oxygen free copper cable Damping materials including cabinet lining and internal wadding Gaskets or sealing strips for drive units All fixing bolts and screws Grille Cloth (Black is supplied as standard but other colours are available on request) Grille fixing studs Fully detailed assembly instructions, including CAD cabinet drawings Cabinets and additional options shown separately Drive units included

How would you know its any good without an audition? The kit costs £1900 and the boxes another £350 ish

As opposed to £10460, your point is?

 

[Andrewjvt]

I believe ATC don't supply their Super SH25-76 HF unit, Super Soft Dome or the Super Linear Magnet Technology LF units which are used in their domestic and Professional passive/active SCM100 monitors. ATC also don't supply their SH25-76 HF unit which is used in the curved Entry Series of passive/active monitors.?

Thanks

Rick @ Musicraft

I wonder what they supply to designers and manufacturers like Roger Quested, he has been building monitors with ATC drive units for decades?

Maybe they keep 'special' versions for their own use? I have no idea, but ATC dive units, particularly the midrange dome, are widely used in 'other' monitors.

You would not have to build the cross over as already made up according to this.

Basic kit: High-quality crossovers, custom designed for each kit and built on high-grade PCBs Recessed terminal trays with gold-plated binding posts Oxygen free copper cable Damping materials including cabinet lining and internal wadding Gaskets or sealing strips for drive units All fixing bolts and screws Grille Cloth (Black is supplied as standard but other colours are available on request) Grille fixing studs Fully detailed assembly instructions, including CAD cabinet drawings Cabinets and additional options shown separately Drive units included

How would you know its any good without an audition? The kit costs £1900 and the boxes another £350 ish

As opposed to £10460, your point is?

Very cheap but how would it sound next to mk2 scm40s or scm40s with a jlsub?

 

[davedotco]

I believe ATC don't supply their Super SH25-76 HF unit, Super Soft Dome or the Super Linear Magnet Technology LF units which are used in their domestic and Professional passive/active SCM100 monitors. ATC also don't supply their SH25-76 HF unit which is used in the curved Entry Series of passive/active monitors.

Thanks

Rick @ Musicraft

I wonder what they supply to designers and manufacturers like Roger Quested, he has been building monitors with ATC drive units for decades?

Maybe they keep 'special' versions for their own use? I have no idea, but ATC dive units, particularly the midrange dome, are widely used in 'other' monitors.

You would not have to build the cross over as already made up according to this.

Basic kit: High-quality crossovers, custom designed for each kit and built on high-grade PCBs Recessed terminal trays with gold-plated binding posts Oxygen free copper cable Damping materials including cabinet lining and internal wadding Gaskets or sealing strips for drive units All fixing bolts and screws Grille Cloth (Black is supplied as standard but other colours are available on request) Grille fixing studs Fully detailed assembly instructions, including CAD cabinet drawings Cabinets and additional options shown separately Drive units included

How would you know its any good without an audition? The kit costs £1900 and the boxes another £350 ish

That is a kit 'based' on the SCM100, which they call the K100, different tweeter too.

So not quite the same thing. Formidable looking speaker for the money though....*good*

 

[Andrewjvt]

I believe ATC don't supply their Super SH25-76 HF unit, Super Soft Dome or the Super Linear Magnet Technology LF units which are used in their domestic and Professional passive/active SCM100 monitors. ATC also don't supply their SH25-76 HF unit which is used in the curved Entry Series of passive/active monitors.?

Thanks

Rick @ Musicraft

I wonder what they supply to designers and manufacturers like Roger Quested, he has been building monitors with ATC drive units for decades?

Maybe they keep 'special' versions for their own use? I have no idea, but ATC dive units, particularly the midrange dome, are widely used in 'other' monitors.

You would not have to build the cross over as already made up according to this.

Basic kit: High-quality crossovers, custom designed for each kit and built on high-grade PCBs Recessed terminal trays with gold-plated binding posts Oxygen free copper cable Damping materials including cabinet lining and internal wadding Gaskets or sealing strips for drive units All fixing bolts and screws Grille Cloth (Black is supplied as standard but other colours are available on request) Grille fixing studs Fully detailed assembly instructions, including CAD cabinet drawings Cabinets and additional options shown separately Drive units included

How would you know its any good without an audition? The kit costs £1900 and the boxes another £350 ish

That is a kit 'based' on the SCM100, which they call the K100, different tweeter too.

So not quite the same thing. Formidable looking speaker for the money though....*good*

Just got home and had a quick look.

Its using a scanspeak tweeter and they are quality but dont know if it would be as good as the new atc custom tweeter but uses the same mid range driver as the one in the scm 40 but not the sl driver thats in the new atcscm100s and also the older 12 inch bass driver.

It also has 100 litre cabinet volume same as scm100 but slightly different dimension. It also states 90db sensitivity

Wonder what you guys think. Compared to scm40 mk2 looks wise and also how it would sound compared to the scm40. No way to demo this though. Dont you think it would be a huge risk to spend that amount?

 

[steve_1979]

Looking at that picture they start going into cone breakup at 180Hz which is about the frequency that typical 15" bass drivers normally start breaking up at.

The 180Hz cone breakup is well below the 800Hz crossover so surely it would be audible even if they do stay reasonably well behaved upto 1kHz.

All I see is a frequency response curve. Which tells me almost next to nothing about how the speakers actually sound.

Let's try listening to them to find out how they sound. Instead of making things up by looking at a graph.

What makes you think I'm making things up?

All 15" drivers start to go into cone breakup at around 200Hz or less and need to be crossed over below that frequency or it'll be audible. That's just the way all 15" drivers behave.

What that frequency response graph shows us is that the JBL driver is no different to all other 15" bass drivers in this respect.

 

[lindsayt]

What makes you think I'm making things up?

All 15" drivers start to go into cone breakup at around 200Hz or less and need to be crossed over below that frequency or it'll be audible. That's just the way all 15" drivers behave.

What that frequency response graph shows us is that the JBL driver is no different to all other 15" bass drivers in this respect.

Says who?

I have speakers with 15" drivers that cross over above 200 hz. So far I have been unable to detect any sonic issues at all from cone break-up above 200 hz.

And I bet if you listened to them in a blind test you wouldn't either.

I'd go further and bet that if you listened to Altec Model 19's which cross over at 1200 hz, you wouldn't hear any cone break up issues either.

In summary you were making things up because the graph did not show cone break-up measurements. They merely showed frequency response measurements. Also, my own personal listening tests with speakers wih 15" drivers completely contradicts your statement. Listening tests that anyone can repeat if they are so minded. Also in all my time reading hi-fi froum posts by owners of speakers with 15" drivers, I can't remember a single one of them stating that cone break-up was an issue. Can you find any that have?

 

[steve_1979]

And I bet if you listened to them in a blind test you wouldn't either.

In a blind test?

A blind test is there to allow you to make a fair comparison between two samples when only a single variable has been changed. Why would that be a suitable test for checking if a 15" bass driver is going into cone breakup at 200Hz? What variable is being altered to check it againts?

Says who?

I have speakers with 15" drivers that cross over above 200 hz. So far I have been unable to detect any sonic issues at all from cone break-up above 200 hz.

And I bet if you listened to them in a blind test you wouldn't either.

I'd go further and bet that if you listened to Altec Model 19's which cross over at 1200 hz, you wouldn't hear any cone break up issues either.

In summary you were making things up because the graph did not show cone break-up measurements. They merely showed frequency response measurements. Also, my own personal listening tests with speakers wih 15" drivers completely contradicts your statement. Listening tests that anyone can repeat if they are so minded. Also in all my time reading hi-fi froum posts by owners of speakers with 15" drivers, I can't remember a single one of them stating that cone break-up was an issue. Can you find any that have?

All 15" inch drivers go into cone breakup at around 200Hz give or take a bit. Look at the frequency responce for any 15" driver and it will be smooth until just below 200Hz then start going wiggly.

 

[Andrewjvt]

What makes you think I'm making things up?

All 15" drivers start to go into cone breakup at around 200Hz or less and need to be crossed over below that frequency or it'll be audible. That's just the way all 15" drivers behave.

What that frequency response graph shows us is that the JBL driver is no different to all other 15" bass drivers in this respect.

Says who?

I have speakers with 15" drivers that cross over above 200 hz. So far I have been unable to detect any sonic issues at all from cone break-up above 200 hz.

And I bet if you listened to them in a blind test you wouldn't either.

I'd go further and bet that if you listened to Altec Model 19's which cross over at 1200 hz, you wouldn't hear any cone break up issues either.

?

In summary you were making things up because the graph did not show cone break-up measurements. They merely showed frequency response measurements. Also, my own personal listening tests with speakers wih 15" drivers completely contradicts your statement. Listening tests that anyone can repeat if they are so minded. Also in all my time reading hi-fi froum posts by owners of speakers with 15" drivers, I can't remember a single one of them stating that cone break-up was an issue. Can you find any that have?

Hi Lindsayt

Whats your opinion of the following: atc scm 40s with a subwoofer or atc 100s on their own without one?

Would love to hear your thoughts and anyone elses.

 

[Al ears]

What makes you think I'm making things up?

All 15" drivers start to go into cone breakup at around 200Hz or less and need to be crossed over below that frequency or it'll be audible. That's just the way all 15" drivers behave.

What that frequency response graph shows us is that the JBL driver is no different to all other 15" bass drivers in this respect.

Says who?

I have speakers with 15" drivers that cross over above 200 hz. So far I have been unable to detect any sonic issues at all from cone break-up above 200 hz.

And I bet if you listened to them in a blind test you wouldn't either.

I'd go further and bet that if you listened to Altec Model 19's which cross over at 1200 hz, you wouldn't hear any cone break up issues either.

In summary you were making things up because the graph did not show cone break-up measurements. They merely showed frequency response measurements. Also, my own personal listening tests with speakers wih 15" drivers completely contradicts your statement. Listening tests that anyone can repeat if they are so minded. Also in all my time reading hi-fi froum posts by owners of speakers with 15" drivers, I can't remember a single one of them stating that cone break-up was an issue. Can you find any that have?

Hi Lindsayt

Whats your opinion of the following: atc scm 40s with a subwoofer or atc 100s on their own without one?

Would love to hear your thoughts and anyone elses.

Although the cheaper option, maybe, I'd avoid the subwoofer if at all possible. If you feel you need one you have the wrong speakers to start with unless you live in a barn.

 

[Vladimir]

And I bet if you listened to them in a blind test you wouldn't either.

In a blind test?

A blind test is there to allow you to make a fair comparison between two samples when only a single variable has been changed. Why would that be a suitable test for checking if a 15" bass driver is going into cone breakup at 200Hz? What variable is being altered to check it againts?

Says who?

I have speakers with 15" drivers that cross over above 200 hz. So far I have been unable to detect any sonic issues at all from cone break-up above 200 hz.

And I bet if you listened to them in a blind test you wouldn't either.

I'd go further and bet that if you listened to Altec Model 19's which cross over at 1200 hz, you wouldn't hear any cone break up issues either.

In summary you were making things up because the graph did not show cone break-up measurements. They merely showed frequency response measurements. Also, my own personal listening tests with speakers wih 15" drivers completely contradicts your statement. Listening tests that anyone can repeat if they are so minded. Also in all my time reading hi-fi froum posts by owners of speakers with 15" drivers, I can't remember a single one of them stating that cone break-up was an issue. Can you find any that have?

All 15" inch drivers go into cone breakup at around 200Hz give or take a bit. Look at the frequency responce for any 15" driver and it will be smooth until just below 200Hz then start going wiggly.

I just posted two drivers made by Eminence which don't have even a wrinkle up to 400Hz or 500Hz. If you smooth out the JBL FR graph in the same manner, the wrinkle will dissapear, which will be more realistic analogy to our hearing. Paper is very good self-dampening material that renders breakups benign compared to stiffer materials.

What matters in main studio monitors: high SPL, low power compression, wide dispersion, precise imaging, lack of coloration.

The problem with smaller drivers are the high THD results from making them have a longer excursion in order to achieve same frequency. So big vs small is pros and cons on both sides, but the rule is simple: big drivers for high SPL, small ones for small SPL. The obstacle for achieving high SPL is power compression.

 

[steve_1979]

I just posted two drivers made by Eminence which don't have even a wrinkle up to 400Hz or 500Hz.

Where? I can't see them.

 

[Vladimir]

Much higher build quality than the already excellent sounding JBL LSR05 and 308. The M2 main studio reference speakers are too big and too expensive for most audiophiles, but these broadcast monitors might be game changers for the brave ones who try them.