Going active ... ?

[atticus]

So do you make incremental improvements and keep quiet or make a 'song and dance' about it? I've heard pretty convincing arguments either way.

This is a really tricky area - we sometimes make incremental improvements to ranges and usually keep them quiet, sometimes it's due to availability of parts (where we swap in something new, always a "better" component where possible to avoid any potential issues) or sometimes we just decide that we can improve something for the next batch as a running update, usually based on dealer/distributor feedback or indeed our own listening tests compared to newer projects.

The problem arises when you inform distributors/dealers as a matter of course and for spare parts, word then gets out and the calls begin... "I've heard you've upgraded your *insert model* speakers, do I have the upgrade in mine? If not I'd like the upgrade, how can I arrange this, do you pick up the speakers from me?" etc etc. After dozens of these calls from now irate customers (that were happy to buy the speakers as they originally were) you then regret ever attempting to improve the product in the first place and wonder why you bother. Should just save the upgrade for an "i"/"SE"/"MkII" of said product.

If you announced the upgrade, bumped the retail price up a small percentage and offered a retro-fit service for a set fee it would probably save the hassle, but then you often make more than one change on longer running ranges so it becomes a bit tedious for everyone when you keep announcing these things and you lose credibility for making an "inferior" product in the first place... :doh:

Hear, hear!

 

[atticus]

I guess this makes Ash a bit of a fiddler then, you can tell him........ :silenced:

Companies should always strive for continuous improvement.

If they can do so without talking EDITED, even better.

So do you make incremental improvements and keep quiet or make a 'song and dance' about it? I've heard pretty convincing arguments either way.

It depends whether any particular company's marketing approach involves claims that new models have more bass when the old ones already had plenty (and music doesn't contain bass anyway), that particular components all sound the same (until they find one that doesn't), that a particular crossover topology booms while theirs doesn't (except their new model which has 'overshoot' to provide more bass - in a good way, of course - and actually it's not crossover which causes this sonic signature but cheap driver technology), that the entire hifi industry has no engineers (except them) and that everybody *else* uses hyperbole and lies to promote their products while they are cut-me-own-throat-honest-as-the-day-is-long-guv.

Fair play JD, I too don't like hyperbole, no matter where it is coming from but that still leaves a product which seems very, very good value for money as I am at the moment try to figure out.

Each of the amplifiers (there are two, well, actually four, two in each speaker) are substantial creations. The boxes look fine and well made, the drivers are good quality and a digital hub of sorts/pre-amplifier and remote is included for the £1.3k price.

I never questioned the value of the 9's (but often spoke out against the way of marketing the company uses even though I very much liked the co-owner when I met him. He really comes over completely different than just purely 'on paper'.)

Never mind. I make a decision soon. My 8vs2 (cyrus) with the planned PSX-R and matching player and a pair of larger standmounts than my Ushers, I was thinking Quad12L2 or perhaps 21L2 would take the overall system cost past a pair of ADM9RS's with 'future' upgrades such as an additional PSX-R potentially adding.

I've always maintained that the sweet spot at the time was the 8vs2 plus PSX-r. After that it just got to expensive and there are better integrated amplifiers availabe. My cyrus is not the latest generation so that may have changed but as I can't afford the latest 8 version, or a pre-power etc that's what I got.

I'm also hankering after something more simple, more aestethically pleasing if possible though I do like the cyrus build/looks.

In any case I still use my Sony receiver in the main system. Simply superb imo.

We'll see.

regards

I did all this myself, DM, before I came upon AVi; so it is genuinely interesting to find someone going the other way. First I bought the the Cyrus CD6, then upwards and onwards for three years, ending up with x2 Mono X's, a CD8 SE, a PreVs2 and x4 PSX-R's. And that's before the bloody speakers and all the bi-wiring cable nonsense (Genesis Silver Spiral, since you ask). I wouldn't do it again, barring a lottery win and a lot of free time to tinker.

Knock yourself out, whichever way you go!

 

[John Duncan]

As a comparison:

AVI ADM9 6"

Fostex FF225K (8") and Veravox 5S (5")

ATC 5"

What conclusion would YOU take from those three photos?

I have a small pen1s?

Actually no, that's a different forum...

 

[steve_1979]

Steve, you seem to be linking the AVI sub bass driver, rather than the one from the ADM9s

That's right. There's already a picture of the ADM9 6.5" mid/bass driver posted a few pages back.

The picture above is their 10" subwoofer driver which is a custom design specially built for AVI by Sinar Baja. It weighs a bloody ton and everything about the build just oozes quality. Unlike many subwoofers it's sounds very tight and musical with no boominess at all. It integrates perfectly with the ADM9's and has no noticeable crossover or directionality that many subwoofers suffer from when used in a 2.1 system.

 

[hoopsontoast]

Steve, you seem to be linking the AVI sub bass driver, rather than the one from the ADM9s

That's right. There's already a picture of the ADM9 6.5" mid/bass driver posted a few pages back.

The picture above is their 10" subwoofer driver which is a custom design specially built for AVI by Sinar Baja. It weighs a bloody ton and everything about the build just oozes quality. Unlike many subwoofers it's sounds very tight and musical with no boominess at all. It integrates perfectly with the ADM9's and has no noticeable crossover or directionality that many subwoofers suffer from when used in a 2.1 system.

Hmmm, does that nice heavy cast frame look familliar...

Its an OEM design, as used by a LOT of people, including Eminence no less, probably the largest driver manufacturer in the world. That frame design comes in 10, 12 and 15" flavours IIRC.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Obviously ATC.

 

[John Duncan]

Well this does seem to be the tenet of the thread...

 

[steve_1979]

Hmmm, does that nice heavy cast frame look familliar...

That looks nothing like the subwoofer driver that AVI uses. Clicky

Its an OEM design, as used by a LOT of people, including Eminence no less, probably the largest driver manufacturer in the world. That frame design comes in 10, 12 and 15" flavours IIRC.

OEM?

Could you provide a link to a web page where it's possible to buy the 10" driver that AVI uses?

 

[John Duncan]

Hmmm, does that nice heavy cast frame look familliar...

That looks nothing like the driver that AVI uses. Clicky

Its an OEM design, as used by a LOT of people, including Eminence no less, probably the largest driver manufacturer in the world. That frame design comes in 10, 12 and 15" flavours IIRC.

OEM?

Could provide a link to a web page where it's possible to buy the 10" driver that AVI uses?

He's talking about the basket. That is an Eminence driver (available for about $140).

 

[steve_1979]

He's talking about the basket. That is an Eminence driver (available for about $140).

Yes the basket is similar. But it's a totally different speaker!

 

[steve_1979]

I have a small pen1s

Hur hur.

 

[John Duncan]

He's talking about the basket. That is an Eminence driver (available for about $140).

Yes the basket is similar. But it's a totally different speaker!

You are mistakenly thinking that he is saying that it isn't. He has said that the frame is OEM and is used by a number of manufacturers. Which seems plausible, given the look of them.

 

[steve_1979]

You are mistakenly thinking that he is saying that it isn't. He has said that the frame is OEM and is used by a number of manufacturers. Which seems plausible, given the look of them.

What hoops said was "Its an OEM design, as used by a LOT of people, including Eminence" which is wrong. The 10" driver that AVI uses is a custom design specially made for AVI.

Sinar Baja may indeed use the same or a similar spider for some of their other woofers (it's a huge company that make lots of speakers of every shape/size/price for many different companies). But just compare the picture of the Eminance driver to the AVI driver and you'll see that everything else on it looks completely different.

 

[steve_1979]

Fostex FF225K (8") and Veravox 5S (5")

Cheap low quality driver with a pressed steel basket.

ATC 5"

That's more like it. That looks like a good quality piece of kit.

I have a small pen1s

:hand: Whoh there boy. That's not the sort of thing you should be admitting on a public forum. Especially to a bunch of immature audiophiles. We'll be misquoting that post for months now.

 

[John Duncan]

What hoops said was "Its an OEM design, as used by a LOT of people, including Eminence" which is wrong. The 10" driver that AVI uses is a custom design specially made for AVI.

No, what hoops said was:

"Hmmm, does that nice heavy cast frame look familliar...

[picture]

Its an OEM design, as used by a LOT of people, including Eminence"

 

[steve_1979]

Don't you just love AVI threads (almost as much as cable threads)? They sure beat Eastenders for a weekly dose of soap opera.

:cheers:

 

[BenLaw]

Don't you just love AVI threads (almost as much as cable threads)? They sure beat Eastenders for a weekly dose of soap opera.

:cheers:

And you get to take on the role of one of the main characters.

 

[lindsayt]

I really think you need to get out more.

Overdose, will you please apologise for making this personally insulting post directed towards me?

And will you please refrain from personally insulting me in the future?

 

[Hoodedcrow]

It's a shame some of the main characters don't use their wealth of acting experience in a more positive way, or just like Eastenders it's so damn boring you just want to change channels.

 

[Alec]

This isn't an AVI thread.

 

[John Duncan]

This isn't an AVI thread.

 

[Alec]

Yes, but that pipe has always been a pipe, and was meant to be smoked.

 

[steve_1979]

This isn't an AVI thread.

Have you read the first post?

 

[Alec]

This isn't an AVI thread.

Have you read the first post?

Good point well made. I had read it but forgotten, what with all this excitement.

 

[fr0g]

For DAC's a 2nd hand Beresford, or Behringer, or other brand DAC. Sound differences between DACs are minimal. So DAC choice is no big deal.

Amp: Sony ES 770 model, or some other battleship Japanese amp or one of the JBL 62xx amps.

Speakers: Yamaha NS1000 or NS1000M. These are not monstrous eyesores. They do have Berylium midrange units and tweeters and lightweight 12" bass drivers. Klipsch Cornwalls 2nd hand. These are not monstrous speakers and they will go right in the corner or up against the wall. Various Royd models. Epos ES14's. But thinking about it, why did you bring "monstrous eyesores" into this debate? What have looks and size got to do with value for money? Nothing. If something's much bigger and looks less good to you that doesn't make it worse value. It just makes it big and ugly in your eyes. We can move the debate onto looks and size if you want, but that's a completely different topic to value for money.

Ok, replying to this, as you seem to think I missed it. No, I didn't.

What you are failing to grasp is that these speakers are all very low in WAF. And just because you have got away with installing huge old speakers doesn't mean 99% of normal people can. So it has everything to do with VFM within acceptable limits.

If I brought those hideous Yamahas home, my missus would flip. Not that I myself would look at them twice for fear of my eyes burning out.

What small actives (including the ADMs, but also Genelec, Yamaha, KRK, Adam, etc) bring, at the pricepoint, is very good clarity, fidelity, low-distortion and also high SPLs within their range, down to around 50-60 Hz. If you want full range, then add a sub, which is much easier to hide than something out of a 60's horror film like the huge Yamahas.)

And speaking of specifically the ADMs, then they are one of very few that also offer in-built preamp and DAC and don't look like "pro" monitors. Others would be Audiopro, Dynaudio and I believe Tannoy. But for now, the choice is limited.