cables & blocks confusion

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Anton90125"] I am surprised that Mr Current failed to understand/observe the scientific methodology at the basis Mr Duncans comments, given that Mr Current electronic background.[/quote]

OK, present your theory that explains precisely how mains cables make a difference.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Anton90125"][quote user="JohnDuncan"]Manhattan Project? Bourbons.[/quote]

I still prefer Jaffa Cakes!

[/quote]

Not keen on sweet biscuits but digestives with mature or blue cheese. Yum!

 

[Anton90125]

[quote user="Eddy Current"]
[quote user="Anton90125"] I am surprised that Mr Current failed to understand/observe the scientific methodology at the basis Mr Duncans comments, given that Mr Current electronic background.[/quote]

OK, present your theory that explains precisely how mains cables make a difference.

[/quote]

I don't need to as I have not expressed an opinion on mains cable. Having never tested these cables I am in no position to pass judgement (or develop a hypothesis ). I am however open minded enough not to rule it out- out of hand.

On a slightly different topic I will say that conditioners do make a difference having obserbed 1/3 hifi manufactures at a hifi show using variacs. After various discussions with the reps and in some case designers (experts in electronics I would guess), they were being successfully used as mains conditioners-" poor mans conditioner" was one comment that stuck to my mind.On getting home,my friend (who built his own Williamson valve anp and a pair of 300B single ended mono amps) got his variac out.We tested his system- 300B/Lowthers with and without the variac( set at unity).He blind tested me,his wife,other friends and showed very conclusively that the variac made a difference - one which we preferred.

On yet another note,having spoken to the same designers, my understanding of the way mains introduced noise works is very different to the way it is described in this thread.The insidious effect of this noise (harmonics which break through the rectification and smoothing stages) is the effect it has on the power rails which power all the various op amps,transistors and other semiconductors.As an electronics man you will appreciate that changing the power voltage also changes the performance characteristics of the said powered component. This device being non ohmic is not totally linear even under ideal conditions.Now the designer designed his circuit with the assumption that each of the components would all operate under normal clean conditions and as such perform in a predictable way- thus making the circuit perform exactly as specified.Now with each component instead deviating (albeit small) randomly, the net effect on the circuit (ie cumulative effects of all these components) will be different to what was specified.

The changes to the sound would for the most part be subtle but noticeable.This what I expected an indeed heard.

Being an electronics man, you must have a variac kicking around somewhere that you could use to test this yourself.

 

[Anton90125]

[quote user="Eddy Current"]
[quote user="Anton90125"][quote user="JohnDuncan"]Manhattan Project? Bourbons.[/quote]

I still prefer Jaffa Cakes!

[/quote]

Not keen on sweet biscuits but digestives with mature or blue cheese. Yum!

[/quote]

I do like blue cheese Mmmm.. Sometimes with a bit of chopped raw onions and chillies- bit of a Sri lankan thing!

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Anton90125"]

I don't need to as I have not expressed an opinion on mains cable.

[/quote]

OK, fair enough.

[quote user="Anton90125"].The insidious effect of this noise (harmonics which break through the rectification and smoothing stages) is the effect it has on the power rails which power all the various op amps,transistors and other semiconductors.[/quote]

Sorry, but this is nonsense.

 

[Anton90125]

[quote user="Eddy Current"] Sorry, but this is nonsense. [/quote]

Why?

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Anton90125"][quote user="Eddy Current"] Sorry, but this is nonsense. [/quote]

Why?[/quote]

There are no "harmonics which break through the rectification and smoothing stages" to eliminate. Get a 'scope and look at the ripple on the low signal supply lines in your amp if you doubt my word. You can try it with or without your variac, because it won't change a thing.

 

[John Duncan]

[quote user="Eddy Current"]Post your evidence that refutes the theory and then we can continue.

[/quote]

Have done, several times.

 

[Andrew Everard]

Is it just me, or did this thread stop going anywhere useful some weeks ago...?

 

[Clare Newsome]

It's the Hillary Clinton of threads, refusing to give up....

 

[John Duncan]

[quote user="Andrew Everard"]
Is it just me, or did this thread stop going anywhere useful some weeks ago...?

[/quote]

Until I brought it round to biscuits

 

[Anonymous]

This thread is past clinton territory and moved into an utter tosh zone like boris johnson, lol.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Paulthefilmfan"]This thread is past clinton territory and moved into an utter tosh zone like boris johnson, lol.[/quote]

Indeed, believing that changing a mains lead can have any effect on the sound or picture is more than slightly silly.

 

[Andrew Everard]

Oh clever - I see what you did there...

 

[professorhat]

Yeah, I thought we'd brought it to a nice conclusion where we agreed that, because I didn't understand electronics and the issue is too complicated to explain to a layman like myself (I assume?), the only way I can be sure is to listen myself...

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="professorhat"]I didn't understand electronics and the issue is too complicated to explain to a layman like myself[/quote]

So you're not really a professor?

 

[Anonymous]

Wow, this thread is still going!

I find it amusing reading that the argument against the benefits of cables and blocks is put forward by those that have never tried them!
I will try to keep the explanations simple and straightforward.......UK mains supply is rated at 240/250v, but in peak periods of high demand significant drops do occur, further more the supply is not clean with it being coloured with Radio Frequency pollution + what it also gets off the house ring main! The performance of Audio and Vision equipment is greatly effected by the above when current is drawn to the transformer (only few have a very large VA rating which helps to stabilise the supply better), rectifier, op amps etc. The 'noise floor' then goes out down the signal path to the other stages with the muddy effect, hum, closed in effect it produces!
Now hands up those who think having a dirty mains supply is a OK and makes no difference. It is interesting to note that people who have cleaned up the mains have seen the gains in doing so. It is thought by many to be a worthy upgrade to getting the best performance / pleasure out of your systems.
Enjoy

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="trevor79"]UK mains supply is rated at 240/250v, but in peak periods of high demand significant drops do occur[/quote]

So what can be done, bearing in mind that replacing mains leads and adding conditioners has no effect on such things?

[quote user="trevor79"]further more the supply is not clean with it being coloured with Radio Frequency pollution + what it also gets off the house ring main! The performance of Audio and Vision equipment is greatly effected by the above when current is drawn to the transformer (only few have a very large VA rating which helps to stabilise the supply better), rectifier, op amps etc. The 'noise floor' then goes out down the signal path to the other stages with the muddy effect, hum, closed in effect it produces![/quote]

Sorry, but this is techno sounding waffle. What has the VA rating of the transformer have to do with anything?

In some cases, like a clicking noise in a susceptible amplifier when a fridge or heating system goes on and off, a conditioner might just help. But do they make a general improvement in sound quality? No, of course they don't.

Regards Ed

 

[Anton90125]

[quote user="Eddy Current"]But do they make a general improvement in sound quality? No, of course they don't.[/quote]

In my blind tested experience, conditioners do make a difference. Out of interest why does the cyrus psx make such a difference to a cyrus amp if the power supply in the said amp is already perfect?

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Anton90125"]

In my blind tested experience, conditioners do make a difference.

[/quote]

In what way? Less Radio 1 in the background or less interference from your fridge?

[quote user="Anton90125"]Out of interest why does the cyrus psx make such a difference to a cyrus amp if the power supply in the said amp is already perfect?[/quote]

I don't know, but who said it was already perfect?

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="trevor79"]Wow, this thread is still going!

I will try to keep the explanations simple and straightforward.......UK mains supply is rated at 240/250v,[/quote]

Erm, ok. You obviously know your stuff, so I won't argue

 

[professorhat]

[quote user="Anton90125"]In my blind tested experience, conditioners do make a difference.[/quote]

[quote user="bloney"]You obviously know your stuff, so I won't argue[/quote]

That's sorted then.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="professorhat"][quote user="Anton90125"]In my blind tested experience, conditioners do make a difference.[/quote]

[quote user="bloney"]You obviously know your stuff, so I won't argue[/quote]

That's sorted then.

[/quote]
What!? Really, not antagonised any response?! [1] Tsk.

I'll have to go and beat the wife now...

[1] That might not be grammatically correct.

 

[professorhat]

Well, was kind of trying to make the point that, by subjectively quoting, you can make any point you like (as you did in your original post). Not quite sure what to make of your response though!

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="professorhat"]Well, was kind of trying to make the point that, by subjectively quoting, you can make any point you like (as you did in your original post). Not quite sure what to make of your response though!

[/quote]

my reaction:
something along the lines of: Recoil, horror, he must be joking, why don't I get his joke, I wouldn't make that kind of joke, did i misunderstand?, that was a bit horrific, no he must be joking ad infinitum