Big question : July issue HDMI cables do they make a difference?

StanleyAV

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Am I being brave to offer my opinion here? [:O]

In my opinion they do make a difference, however, like the blind test panel, its more in the audio than the picture.

Digital audio is not well transmitted via twisted pair, the wave forms of digital audio will be subject to timing issues : the hifi fraternity is well versed in the subject of jitter by now surely? If a good square wave is not transmitted or received audio differences will be perceived.

I compared the internal freesat on my panasonic G15 against my Humax FoxSat HDR, to see what difference HDMI has on the video/audio quality. Using a sample from the BBC HD preview Nick Drake sessions : Way to Blue, I could clearly hear a sound improvement on the internal freesat tuner, against the Supra HF100 HDMI cable I use. The sound had much greater clarity and purity when not transmitted via HDMI! [:p]

I had been previously using a MarkGrant Cables G1080 HDMI, that sounded much better than the Supra : it is triple screened and uses silver wiring like the Chord and QED cables you used. The Supra sounds OK, neutral and so on, but not quite to my taste for audio.

Often we are limited for alternative means of transmitting digital audio : optical is sometimes the only option provided. The problem there being plastic/toslink is not ideal for digital audio either, the bandwidth is too limited and rounding of waveforms occurs. Coaxial/wired is the best means of transporting digital audio when the likes of glass fibre (ST optical) are not available! [:^)]

As for picture quality, I think that could well be more an issue with shielding and localised RF. I happen to live in a particularly bad area for that, I have a TV relay transmitter quite near to me on a hill. So I did actually see a performance lift moving from the cheap cables to MarkGrant's and even better again moving to the Supra.If you live in a "good" area with respect to RF, perhaps the differences are very small.

However, how good is the HDMI interface? One only has to look at the horrible plugs and sockets to realise there may be short comings! Hardly a good fit are they? [6] Jenving who make Supra, say that DVI is a much better transmission interface than HDMI !

Is it any wonder when the DVI connector has bolts to secure it, and pins that make a good connection with its socket.

We need to be seeing a completely new connector, and coaxial lines throughout before we can really see the benefits of an all digital connection.

I'm not surprised that the average consumer feels they are being ripped off with respect to cables : different versions, different claims for function etc etc We can do without this sort of nonsense, a redesign that saw the end of cable snake oil would be just the ticket!

Am I talking out of my hat?[;)]
 

carter

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great post,im suprised that big question isnt a 50 pqge argument thread by now any way i agree with you cables do make a diferance and i think the shielding as far as picture goes could be a major factor
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Andrew Everard

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At the moment these amps have an Ethernet connection, but the idea of the Ethernet option on HDMI 1.4 is that various internet-enabled products will be able to share a single connection, rather than each having to be connected separately to the network.
 

carter

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ok so things like apple tv will stil need to go direct to router rather than ethernet via reciver.cheers andrew

sorry for going off topic
 

idc

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Do those who are the subject of the test express their opinions together, openly or do they keep notes and all is revealed at the very end of the test? I am wondering to what extent the subjects influence each other.

BTW, excellent first post!
 

carter

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when i did mine we sit in a room together and we can hear what each other was saying but i dont think we really influenced each other

we also used a pen and paper to make notes but i think this was more to help the guys writing it up(dont think my notes were much good)
 

StanleyAV

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Thanks idc, now if I posted this on another leading forum I would get laughed at!
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They dont believe cables make a difference, and think screen calibration and the equipment attached is all that matters!
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hmmmmm

Everything matters, even the fuses!
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A

Anonymous

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StanleyAV:
Thanks idc, now if I posted this on another leading forum I would get laughed at!
emotion-7.gif


They dont believe cables make a difference, and think screen calibration and the equipment attached is all that matters!
emotion-40.gif
hmmmmm

Everything matters, even the fuses!
emotion-5.gif
What fuses? We don't have fuses here.

No point me buying an HD tv then?
 

Nohairnick

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Dear all,

I must admit I'm a cynic when it comes to digital interconnects- I've heard the arguments on both sides of the fence and fall firmly into the category 'if you feel you see/hear a difference - its your money, spend it', however...

I personally can't tell any difference; all the 'scientific' evidence suggests that -for a compliant HDMI cable- the digital input = the output. Why the cable should only affect those bits responsible for a particular picture characteristic (contrast, colour, etc) consistantly from frame to frame has never been explained -even by the cable manufacturers.

Why the sound (which is made up of considerably less data than the picture) should be even more affected by the choice of cable is very odd.

Which brings me to the test...

I've only just this evening read 'The Big Question' on HDMI cables (which I'm sure was supposed to have been in the mag ages ago) and noticed 'technicalities', these being:-

  • The set up was from a blu-ray to a TV via an amp. A perfectly normal set-up, but one that requires a minimum of 2 HDMI cables.
  • The test description only mentions 1 cable being changed. Is this a mistake or are both HDMIs being replaced?
  • If only the final HDMI cable (between the amp and the TV) is being replaced, then the sound is being stripped by the amp prior to entering the changing cable thus no change should be noted in the sound.
  • Assuming I'm being overly picky and both cables are being changed (and the test method incorrectly reported), how long is cable 1 from the blu-ray to the amp and cable 2 from the amp to the TV. Are all cables the same length?

While it may not seem it from the above- I do try and keep an open mind and appreciate that your reviewers noticed 'something'. In order for me (and the thousands of more vocal posters out there) to consider the results fully a full and accurate description of the test would be invaluable.

Regards,

Nick
 

Nohairnick

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I'm not at all sure if this supports the argument or not...

Bearing in mind that the guinea pigs (sorry chaps) noticed a more pronounced difference in the sound than the picture, the test procedure would suggest this to be the case. The reason being that the signal from the player to the amp is wholly dependant on the player and cable. The amp will then process the signal, removing the soundtrack, and then re-encode the picture element (adding any on-screen menu information etc) and pass it to the TV. The amp will also act as a 'signal booster' (and maybe add some error correction to the mix as well?). So the amp is not a passive element in the chain.

But this is where I have my doubts- the amp should be perfectly capable of reconstructing the digital data provided without any colouration or degradation - and the cable between the amp and TV remained the same- so how could ANY difference be discerned?

I think that not changing BOTH leads is a fundamental flaw in the test procedure- if both had been changed any possible differences might have been magnified leading to a more definitive summary by the reviewers.

I remain unconvinced!
 

Andrew Everard

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Nohairnick:But this is where I have my doubts- the amp should be perfectly capable of reconstructing the digital data provided without any colouration or degradation - and the cable between the amp and TV remained the same- so how could ANY difference be discerned?

You see, if you come to it with that level of assumption, you're likely to get confused. Our reader testers only reported what they saw and heard, which is the whole point of the feature.
 

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