To my ears USB cables do make a difference.

[AJM1981]

So there is a measurement for everything we can hear making listening tests obsolete.

Don't overrate measurements and also don't overrate listening tests. Things taste, look and sound better when you are in a good mood and certainly when being given attention in a dedicated environment.

People have bought Bose products for its amazing sound, just because their demo room provided a mindblowing accoustic experience. When trying out at home the experience was different.

 

[Gray]

So there is a measurement for everything we can hear making listening tests obsolete.

Yes, everything that can be heard, can be measured.
But designers and buyers always need to listen to approve what the measurements have come up with.

Measurements have their place. When you look at a frequency response plot of speakers or headphones, you get a very good idea of how they will sound don't you?

On the other hand the measurements of, say, DACs, with a thousand 0s after the decimal point - are measuring irrelevant differences.

 

[Gray]

We're now a long way off topic, so please stick to it and start another thread for different things.

OK, saw this after I just posted about measurement🙄

 

[AJM1981]

Yes, everything that can be heard, can be measured.
But designers and buyers always need to listen to approve what the measurements have come up with.

Measurements have their place. When you look at a frequency response plot of speakers or headphones, you get a very good idea of how they will sound don't you?

On the other hand the measurements of, say, DACs, with a thousand 0s after the decimal point - are measuring irrelevant differences.

I have bought a sub purely on measurements. I needed to know the bottom end of my 3 way loudspeakers and something that I could turn below that so there would be no overlap. About 90 percent of available subs already didn't pass since their range started at a higher extension point given the lowest possible extension.

To me it is a bit of a puzzle in why the dial of most subs don't go much lower because technically it is a minor addition. Though it definitely helped making a useful selection.

 

[12th Monkey]

I have bought a sub purely on measurements. I needed to know the bottom end of my 3 way loudspeakers and something that I could turn below that so there would be no overlap. About 90 percent of available subs already didn't pass since their range started at a higher extension point given the lowest possible extension.

To me it is a bit of a puzzle in why the dial of most subs don't go much lower because technically it is a minor addition. Though it definitely helped making a useful selection.

Which part of 'stay on topic' are you not understanding?

 

[Jasonovich]

On the other hand you could say, who cares about measurements, it's what it sounds like, to your ears and in your room, that matters.

This is kind of what I was alluding to USB cables.
Honestly have we all lost the capacity to trust the sound from our God given tool, our EARS!

 

[abacus]

So there is a measurement for everything we can hear making listening tests obsolete.

If every Hi-Fi enthusiasts had £1000s worth of measuring equipment and had the qualifications to know how to use it.
You also cant measure personal preference, (Some like an accurate warts and all sound where as other like a nice sound) although a psychologist may be able to interpret it I suppose.

Bill

 

[WayneKerr]

This is kind of what I was alluding to USB cables.
Honestly have we all lost the capacity to trust the sound from our God given tool, our EARS!

Yep, can't trust your ears, as with all our senses we are all too easily fooled We are and always will be imperfect creatures.

 

[daveh75]

This is kind of what I was alluding to USB cables.
Honestly have we all lost the capacity to trust the sound from our God given tool, our EARS!

It's not Ears that are the problem, they're just transducers after all.

 

[rainsoothe]

So there is a measurement for everything we can hear making listening tests obsolete.

How is it easier to do professional measurements in MY room, in MY positioning, and with MY ears and preferences than a home audition?

 

[Jasonovich]

It's not Ears that are the problem, they're just transducers after all.

It's good enough for me.

 

[Deleted member 201267]

How is it easier to do professional measurements in MY room, in MY positioning, and with MY ears and preferences than a home audition?

DIRAC LIVE ???

Digital room correction – Dirac Live - Dirac

Dirac Live helps you get the best sound from your speakers. Our research-driven acoustic processing algorithms delivers an unmatched performance.

www.dirac.com

 

[Deleted member 201267]

So there is a measurement for everything we can hear making listening tests obsolete.

The above comment i was making seems to have been misunderstood. After asking is there a measurement for every aspect of a hifi systems sound i was told "YES".

THEREFORE the above post should of read :-

"So there is a measurement for everything we can hear making listening tests obsolete AT THE DESIGN STAGE".

Post #309 mentions this maybe the case for some designers.

Of course, IN MY OPINION, a listening test is the only valid way to judge your hifi kit, BUT, this must be done in YOUR listening room and for several days to remove any initial excitement after a new purchase.

 

[Revolutions]

General Relativity vs Quantum physics is a great example of a paradox where theory & mathematics are both accurate and inaccurate. Two measurable and provable theories about the world around us that fundamentally disagree with each other. Hard theory all rules suddenly broken by practical experiments.

If hifi designers are building products without testing, I’m sure it’s because they’ve been using the same components and testing them for years. I’d expect they intuitively know how those components react to certain acoustic requirements.

Not that I’d ever say that was a good idea. In my working world, not testing assumptions leads to expensive rework.

 

[Friesiansam]

Of course, IN MY OPINION, a listening test is the only valid way to judge your hifi kit, BUT, this must be done in YOUR listening room and for several days to remove any initial excitement after a new purchase.

Definitely so. Choosing equipment primarily on the basis of technical measurements, may be fine if you listen to your sound system and, obsess about absolute precision. I listen to music and want to enjoy the music, not analyse it.

My headphone amp and headphones, deliver music just the way I want it. I don't give a monkey's how they might look on an oscilloscope.

 

[hifi]

Yet too EXPLORE USB 🤓

 

[Symples]

We're now a long way off topic, so please stick to it and start another thread for different things.

Or ideally let this one die the death, as the OP has suggested would be desirable...

The original post has opened a Pandora's box. Which unfortunately cannot be closed.


Let's just agree that we're never going to agree.


Though it's fun reading people on the thread trying to justify their opinion as F.A.C.T 😂

 

[hifi]

LETS CRACK ON.

 

[podknocker]

The fact is, physics says a fancy USB cable cannot make a difference to the sound quality and it's up to the 'believers' to prove otherwise. Good luck!

 

[Al ears]

I think this thread has, long ago, reaced it's peak of useful information.

 

[Al ears]

The fact is, physics says a fancy USB cable cannot make a difference to the sound quality and it's up to the 'believers' to prove otherwise. Good luck!

I'd like to see said physics.
Can we see where?

 

[podknocker]

I'm sure you're more than capable of finding numerous electronics papers explaining how data is transmitted from one device to another. Look for any article showing how electricity works and how data is packaged. There is ZERO information online to show how the flow of charge along a cable could possibly change the binary data it carries. Are people seriously suggesting there is a different type of electron, which exists in an expensive copper wire, that doesn't exist in a cheaper wire and that this 'expensive' electron sees, or knows what a zero, or one represents? It's farcical to think electrons in a piece of wire (£5 or £5000) can influence some data, which can only be understood by the source and destination components, via the various packaging/modulation protocols and their associated error correction methods. I honestly think people have lost the plot, when it comes to cabling. You have some copper and it's inside some plastic. There is no difference between any cables you can buy. It's some metal, carrying the packaged data and this data can only be recognised by the chips at either end. A voltage is required to send this data and any cable on this planet, made from copper and plastic will allow this electricity to flow. I'm staggered people think there are fancy 'high end' electrons 'polishing' this data as they carry it along the cable. I'm staggered. Truly staggered. It's like people who are religious (and I do respect their views) telling atheists, like myself, that I need to prove there ISN'T a god. Seriously? If a £5 cable can manage to send 100% of the data you are sending, how can a £5000 cable send more than 100% of the data? PROOF that cables can't make a difference, is by not using one! TV broadcasts to a TV aerial, or dish, wireless printers instead if a USB cable. If HD TV signals can get to your Sky dish, through miles of atmosphere, without a cable, then how can even using a cable make a difference? There is transmission loss, but if the signal is strong enough and enough carriers make the journey, the TV data arrives intact. There's loads of very technical things like Coded Orthogonal Frequency Division Multiplexing, which I don't understand, but I know it works, because you don't have cables costing millions of pounds, dripping with snake oil, finding their way to your TV. Cable TV carries no more data than using Sky or an aerial. I use mains cables and speakers cables, but have no other cabling in my system. I would love to know what magical properties people think these fancy cables are actually providing. So funny.

 

[Jasonovich]

I'm sure you're more than capable of finding numerous electronics papers explaining how data is transmitted from one device to another. Look for any article showing how electricity works and how data is packaged. There is ZERO information online to show how the flow of charge along a cable could possibly change the binary data it carries. Are people seriously suggesting there is a different type of electron, which exists in an expensive copper wire, that doesn't exist in a cheaper wire and that this 'expensive' electron sees, or knows what a zero, or one represents? It's farcical to think electrons in a piece of wire (£5 or £5000) can influence some data, which can only be understood by the source and destination components, via the various packaging/modulation protocols and their associated error correction methods. I honestly think people have lost the plot, when it comes to cabling. You have some copper and it's inside some plastic. There is no difference between any cables you can buy. It's some metal, carrying the packaged data and this data can only be recognised by the chips at either end. A voltage is required to send this data and any cable on this planet, made from copper and plastic will allow this electricity to flow. I'm staggered people think there are fancy 'high end' electrons 'polishing' this data as they carry it along the cable. I'm staggered. Truly staggered. It's like people who are religious (and I do respect their views) telling atheists, like myself, that I need to prove there ISN'T a god. Seriously? If a £5 cable can manage to send 100% of the data you are sending, how can a £5000 cable send more than 100% of the data? PROOF that cables can't make a difference, is by not using one! TV broadcasts to a TV aerial, or dish, wireless printers instead if a USB cable. If HD TV signals can get to your Sky dish, through miles of atmosphere, without a cable, then how can even using a cable make a difference? There is transmission loss, but if the signal is strong enough and enough carriers make the journey, the TV data arrives intact. There's loads of very technical things like wave division multiplexing, which I don't understand, but I know it works, because you don't have cables costing millions of pounds, dripping with snake oil, finding their way to your TV. Cable TV carries no more data than using Sky or an aerial. I use mains cables and speakers cables, but have no other cabling in my system. I would love to know what magical properties people think these fancy cables are actually providing. So funny.

Your comments
Its like blood to Dracula,
"Why won't you die"! 😂

There are many valid counter arguments to that on various reputable websites.
But truly, it doesn't have to be so complicated, nor should we attempt to challenge ones disposition with psychosis alluding to someones mental capacity.
The ocean is vast and its great that it's so diverse. The metaphor, all opinions or stated facts have value.

Let's look at from face value,
If someone can hear the difference in sound quality thats OK or the flip side, if you can't detect any noticeable difference in sound quality that is also fine.
We all have free will or free choice to make our decisions and no one should be derided for that.

 

[Friesiansam]

Are people seriously suggesting there is a different type of electron, which exists in an expensive copper wire, that doesn't exist in a cheaper wire and that this 'expensive' electron sees, or knows what a zero, or one represents?

It’s not the cables, it's the £5 per KWH “ Audiophile Grade” electricity, I proposed in another thread…

 

[podknocker]

Your comments
Its like blood to Dracula,
"Why won't you die"! 😂

There are many valid counter arguments to that on various reputable websites.
But truly, it doesn't have to be so complicated, nor should we attempt to challenge ones disposition with psychosis alluding to someones mental capacity.
The ocean is vast and its great that it's so diverse. The metaphor, all opinions or stated facts have value.

Let's look at from face value,
If someone can hear the difference in sound quality thats OK or the flip side, if you can't detect any noticeable difference in sound quality that is also fine.
We all have free will or free choice to make our decisions and no one should be derided for that.

I'm not saying people are making this stuff up. If you believe you can hear an improvement, then fine. My point is, there is nothing physically different in the cable, which could possibly make this happen. One forum member a while back mentioned 'expectation bias' and you can make yourself believe many things. I recently cleaned all my kit, fastidiously making sure all the cables and connections and components were dust free etc. I reconnected again and believed I could hear an improvement in the sound quality. The following day, I wasn't sure if I could still hear this difference. The human mind can change your perceptions and I think it's this that changes how you feel about a particular sound and there is nothing fundamentally different with a cable, or fuse, or piece of wooden furniture etc. Mood and hormones are directly correlated to how you respond to external stimuli, sounds included.