Better SQ system with features similar to Marantz CR603?

[SiUK]

Hello

I recently purchased two Marantz Melody Media MCR603 DAB CD Receivers together with two sets of Q Acoustic 2010i speakers for use in bedrooms. I got them from (hope I'm allowed to say) Peter Tysons online. I have one unit in my bedroom and the person I share our house with has one in her bedroom. Got both lots of Marantz CR603s with Q Acoustics together next day for under £840 delivered.

The speaker cable that was chucked in is not great though, and I was a bit dissappointed that there wasn't something slightly better chucked in to be honest (42 strand black speaker cable), but I dug out some old wire from yesteryear to use temporarily until I get something better. After chopping up the cable I've terminated both sets of cables with Sewell Deadbolt Banana Plugs that I got from Amazon. Took me a second or two to work out how to connect banana plugs to the 2010is though. You have to fully unscrew the connectors until they go no further and then plug in the bananas or the apertures won't accomodate the length of the banana plugs. I read in the accompanying QAcoustics booklet that banana plugs are banned in the EU so I don't know now whether they are suggesting that this isn't the normal way to connect them. It works though.

I have been very very pleased indeed with the sound of the Marantz and 2010is. Quite amazed actually and very surprised (well once I'd corrected an out of phase hook up preventing the speakers from creating a proper stereo image it was great...doh should know better).

To make sure I fully got the benefit of using all the features I installed Gigabit/500Mbps powerline homeplugs in both bedrooms and downstairs, and each bedroom now has a gigabit TP Link switch connected to one. Downstairs the homeplug connects to a new TL-WDR4300 router (bought especially for this set up) connected to a SuperHub in modem mode. The router has two USB sockets in the back and a built in media server - I have plugged some flash drives into the back of the router for now and filled them with flac albums. After a firmware upgrade (the router media server wouldn't allow simulataneous access until that was done) the Marantzs now connect to the TP Link media server and play flacs and they sound absoultely fantastic! Just by accident I also discovered that my S3 can play music direct to the Marantz as well using the android music player, which picked up the Marantz and allowed me to play music on my phone direct to the Marantz. Internet Radio, DAB, FM all are good. And discs sound remarkably good as well. Next thing is to get external aerials installed for FM and DAB to replace the wires stuck to the wall.

Anyhow, here's the thing.I have been so taken with these units that I really would like to get something liek them for the living room that sports similar features but provides a superior quality sound. I have posted here before and have been umming and ahhing about what to get to replace my Mission 751s, Teac VRDS10 and Mission Cyrus II and PSX. The Marantzs (not to put them down or anything) don't compare to the sound that my combo puts out (different league altogether really) and I am wondering if there is anything similar in features to the Marantz that does? If Marantz did a higher end version of the CR603, with a separate amp in the same style and shape I'd be auditioning it like a shot.Traditionally I'd have gone the opposite way (like the existing combo) but I really would like to be able to stream flacs, listen to FM / DAB, etc. The idea is quite liberating.

As a by the way, if anyone has purchased the same combo as me (Marantz and Q Acoustics 2010is) and isn't moved then my advice is to leave on for at least 7 days night and day playing something like dab to burn in. Sounds okay out of the box but after a week it is delivering in spades and is getting better and better.

I have really enjoyed the Marantz experience. At my age I thought the enjoyment would have lasted a short while. But surprisingly it's had the opposite effect and I'm busy ripping all my music to flac ready for plugging into the router or for transferring to a NAS.

Any pointers would be appreciated (for higher audio quality but similar features)

Thanks,

 

[chebby]

The NaimUniti 2 (assuming you want the CD player) and an Apple TV 3 for AirPlay (if you use that on the M-CR603s and want to keep it).

If you can live without CD then Naim UnitiQute 2 + their new NAP 100 power amp. (Same size and shape boxes so will look good together.)

(And how dare you not get decent roof mounted FM/DAB aerials first!

)

 

[SiUK]

Hello chebby. Thanks for replying.

I see you are a CR603 owner also and that you have a pair of Regas hooked up to it? Is this your main hifi? Made me wonder how much I was hobbling the Marantz with the 2010is so I took the CR603 downstairs and hooked it up to my Mission 751s connected with Audioquest crystal cable (bi-wired 4to2). Can't say I was very impressed. Obviously needs careful speaker partnering. The Q Acoustics were a better match tonally.

Anyhow. Your advice. Thanks. I don't use Airplay / iTunes at all. Don't intend moving to Apple in the future either so didn't 'upgrade' to Airplay. I am going down flac and CD route. Got a lot of CDs and shalln't be ditching them any time soon.

That Naim looks just the ticket but a bit rich for my blood. With speakers and cables. ..well just too much

although I could wait and save more I suppose ;-)

And yeah should have got the wires first. Niightmare getting a decent installer where I am. Overcharge for rubbish and or don't like you asking for 'proper'cable etc. Had two chaps in already. Both wanted to whack an omni up for FM AND DAB..

 

[KidKomet]

What size room and budget are you looking at? If you like the Q acoustics sound, you might try the 2050i's or their Concept speakers. The best advice I can offer, is to demo as much as possible within your budget. Try and allocate a larger portion to the speakers as they often make the most difference in regards to SQ.

Hope this helps, all the best!

 

[chebby]

I am going down flac and CD route. Got a lot of CDs and shalln't be ditching them any time soon.

The M-CR603 doesn't do gapless FLAC/WAV so don't go downloading any live CDs or classical CDs with 'index points' in the middle of movements. (Or old prog rock type albums where there aren't any 'tracks' as such but the CD has index points nonetheless.)

The new M-CR610 (due out in October) will do gapless FLAC or WAV up to 24/192.

The gapless omission has never bothered me because I stream everything via AirPlay where gapless works fine.

That Naim looks just the ticket but a bit rich for my blood. With speakers and cables. ..well just too much although I could wait and save more I suppose ;-) n

Okay. I assumed you wanted a significant upgrade.

Like-for-like (as in fully featured all-in-ones with the connectivity and functions you want) there isn't much out there until you get to the Naim offerings. You'd better get seperates.

Niightmare getting a decent installer where I am. Overcharge for rubbish and or don't like you asking for 'proper'cable etc. Had two chaps in already. Both wanted to whack an omni up for FM AND DAB.

If they are lazy in this regard they will be lazy with the entire installation. Try and find someone further afield who knows what they are doing and will do a good job.

This site is a smashing read on all things 'aerials' (I have bought from them too). Maybe you are within their area or could ring for advice...

http://www.aerialsandtv.com/

 

[audioaddict]

just thought i,d stick my oar in as a 603 owner, i,m still chuffed with the sound of mine and its my main system, i still think you,d have to spend a good bit more on separates to better it....just my opinion

 

[malifact]

I tried a number of all in one systems before settling for the M-CR603. I think for its price it is definitely the best all in one system (and the new M-CR610 seems to resolve a lot of its minor shortcomings). The Unitiqute 2 is a great all in one system, but you could get better speakers for the £600 or so price difference with the Marantz.

 

[SiUK]

Thanks for all your replies. I've been spurred on by others' experiences here with the CR603 and so at the weekend I thought I'd give it another try downstairs (it's been burning in nicely upstairs) again first with the tiny QA 2010is connected with 42 strand cable and then with my existing Mission 751 speakers biwired (2 to 4) with Audioquest crystal cable (on stands...the QAs looked cute on the stands...too big for them really).

I grabbed a handful of CDs and had a right session. CDs played included:

William Byrd (Early Music), Palestrina (Oxford Camerata,...), Tallis (Spem In Alium), Martin Hayes & Dennis Cahill (The Lonesome Touch), Cassandra Wilson (New Moon Daughter), Screamin' Jay Hawkins (Black Music for White People), Elivs Costello & The Attractions (All This Useless Beauty), The Bad Plus (Give / These are the Vistas), Cowboy Junkies (Trinity Session / Trinity Revisted), Nitin Sawhney (Beyond Skin / Prophesy), Jimi Hendrix (Axis Bold as Love / Are you experienced), Keston Cobbler's Club (One, For Words).

First off, with the QA 2010is the sound stage was exceptionally good. The little things really do image well. Acoustic and vocal sounded open but slightly harsh and I found that the small boxiness of the QA 210i's limited the scale in my front room. The sound was often homogenised, and indistinct. Upstairs they are perfect and deliver jsut enough of everything I need for a bedroom. Downstairs you can hear the cabinets when the Marantz is cranked up etc. (slight thudding) I didn't expect to be spellbound by the set up to be honest, but I was nonetheless very impressed by just how much they coped with all the music I played. Most excellent for such a tiny budget speaker.

Hooked up to my old Mission 751s and biwired the Marantz sounded far more luxiourious and the soundstage much larger. It really is a very musical box of tricks indeed. It seems to play everything you throw at it with ease and you can't help but enjoy the way it handles it all. From Hendrix to Norah Jones, it just makes listening very easy. The Bad Plus's These Are The Vistas album sounds tremendously energetic from beginning to end. The instuments placed perfectly within the sound stage and the Marantz kept a tight control over them as well. No fatigue at all. My 751s are a hard speaker to place and canalso sound harsh at the best of times, but this Marantz totally tames them. I lost a whole weekend listening to music with this setup. Wife was pulling her hair out ;-). I don't think it betters my previous setup overall (would hope not at the price), but it certainly handled everythign I threw at it and made it all enjoyable, and that is something I've actually missed a lot of years..my older system really makes/made some CDs sound as bad as they actually are...Marantz has the edge on this. Another good reason to retire the older stuff and look for new!

So today I decided on what to do. I bought a third Marantz Cr603 rom Peter Tysons. I have left the one from my bedroom downstairs in the living room hooked up to the 751s with Audioquest cable and that will be my main system for the time being. However, this decision was made because I've also decided to go for something like (or actually) the Naim Uniti 2 later with some new speakers to follow, and so getting the Marantz now will give me time to put the pennies away for the Naim first them speakers second. Although I'm happy to have the Marantz downstairs my eyes are still focused elsewhere. I want something better.

I also ordered some audioquest flx-slip 14/4 pairs for the upstairs Marantz units to replace the cheapo stuff. Hopefully that will make an audible difference.

So thanks for help.

 

[SiUK]

Sorry to drone on but I'd like to add a bit more about the Marantz units (may help someone else in similar postion) as there are now three of these units in the house!

Think I've kind of 'got' the Marantz CR603 units figured out now. For the past twenty+ years I've been listening everso critically to all of my music through more expensive separates as the sound demanded it - analytical (and often unrelentingly) sound that grabbed your attention. You won't really do this with this £320 all-in-one Marantz. Once I stopped expecting miracles - that is, expecting it to be as precise as my separates as if it could produce a higher level of detail and finesse than it was capable of (which is natural to do I suppose) - I started to really enjoy it...or rather my music through it. It has been quite a liberating experience to be honest. Basically the music through the Marantz and my old 751s has to be enjoyed not analysed.

One of my favourite 'classical' pieces is EMI Classic Walton's Belshazzar's Feast (conducted by Walton). If you want to put a hi-fi through its paces I recommend this CD. It'll show you what your hi-fi is capable of. I did at first start my 'heady thing', analysing the sound coming out, noting how the chorus wasn't so defined etc. but then forgot I was doing that and then before I knew it it was the end of the CD. Got totally sidetracked listening to the briliant music....ha ha! My point is that it has no pretensions; it's just a good, enjoyable bit of kit for the price. And although I do believe bunging a £700 pair of speakers on the end of it is likely to bring even greater rewards I don't see the point really. It (the Marantz) is hooked up to a £300 (the price in 1992 that is) pair of speakers and I shall be feeding it disc after disc as I rip my music to flac for convenience.

A enjoyable music 'system' and I can see why it got 5 stars!

As an endnote, there seems to be a massive hole in the market for this type of kit. Specifically, it is strange how there is hardly any choice in the £500 to £1000 and £1000 to £2000 categories. I say this as a recent convert to the all-in-one notion.

Oh, and thanks to whoever pointed out the biggest flaw in the Marantzs (for me) and that is the lack of gapless flack playback. I didn't realise that it didn't do gapless. I wonder whether this can be fixed via firmware?

 

[chebby]

Oh, and thanks to whoever pointed out the biggest flaw in the Marantzs (for me) and that is the lack of gapless flack playback. I didn't realise that it didn't do gapless. I wonder whether this can be fixed via firmware?

That was me.

It hasn't had a firmware fix as yet. (Nor do I know if one is planned for the M-CR603).

This has been adressed with the new M-CR610 (on sale from October for £499) with FLAC/WAV gapless streaming up to 24 bit / 192 KHz.

I have never considered streaming - in the way you propose - on my M-CR603 so it's never been a problem for me.

I use AirPlay from iTunes (either from my computer or from iPhone and iPad) and this supports gapless playback of formats up to and including Apple Lossless. (Very important as I have a very large collection of BBC Radio drama ripped from my BBC CDs and gaps would be intolerable during playback of such material.)

 

[the record spot]

Used the 751s myself for a few years and it's ahrd to fault them really. The mesh dome tweeter certainly wasn't harsh but integrated well. Depending on positioning, partnering gear and suchlike, they were wonderfully lucid and gave you a good insight into recordings. They still stand up well today.

 

[Dommer]

You could look at an ex-demo Naim unitiQute as I did when I got mine a year ago. They can be had NOW for as little as £750.

if you need the CD transport then the Naim unitiLite might be more of what you're looking for.

I've paired the unitiQute with KEF R100 bookshelf speakers which were open box models, and some Chord silver screen speaker cable,

all for about £1500. Brilliant sound and a very simple clean and versitile little system, perfect for a 6x4m room.

 

[SiUK]

Hi.

Have to say I am thinking that I have probably made a goof buying the Marantzs. Truly wish I'd waited longer. The only reason I'm unhappy is that there is no wretched gapless flac playback. So it is an expensive goof on my part when you multiply cost by 3. Was seriously contemplating approaching PT to return all three and replace with the newer units but they aren't even available yet so I doubt whether that would be an option. May very well email Marantz and try and get some response from them re firmware to fix gapless (hard to believe they haven't sorted that already). I listen to a lot of music where gaps completely destroys the continuity and that means the units severely limit how I play my music back. I can't see why it can't be fixed in firmware. Trouble is why would they if they're pushing out their new ones? Deep long sigh....

As an aside, I purchased 4 lengths of Audioquest flx-slip 14/4 unterminated. The arrived two days ago and I terminated them at the amp end only. I find the Q Acoustics don't take too well to having banana plugs shoved in their binding posts. Not quite enough depth so a bit precarious in the holes. So I've 'bare-wired' at the speaker end.

I read that the cable was easy to handle. Must be a very subjective thing! My fingers were quite sore after fitting 8 plugs. However, the difference when they were plugged in wasn't at all subtle. Makes me laugh those people that say it is all in 'our' minds. Rich, deep, articulate sound...and a fantastic soundstage. Excellent cables. This was a very worthwhile purchase... glad I bought them for the difference they make.

I also isolated the upstairs Marantzs on some old heavy solid metal black speaker stand bases (salvaged from my old target stands). I stuck some good rubber feet on each of the corners and placed a 'plate' under each unit. It fits underath exactly with no protrusions either side! Lucky or what? I did this as they are sat on drawers so wanted to reduce vibration. I actually keep going up to my bedroom to lie on the bed and listen to my music because CDs and streamed FLACs sound so good through the setup.

I highly recommend audioquest flx-slip 14/4 for this set up with the Q Acoustics speakers. Makes a heck of difference (yes it does). Although I'd recommend getting the amp ends terminated to save your fingers if you don't want glowing fingertips. I was being a cheapskate so did it myself (braiding then binding two wires together then poncing about getting each one into the deadbolts..it was tricky).

 

[chebby]

Hi.

Have to say I am thinking that I have probably made a goof buying the Marantzs. Truly wish I'd waited longer. The only reason I'm unhappy is that there is no wretched gapless flac playback.

I informed you three days before you bought your third M-CR603 that it doesn't support gapless when streaming FLAC / WAV and that the new M-CR610 will support it. (And you acknowledged the fact.)

If it's not too late, return the M-CR603 for a refund and order the new M-CR610 instead. I called Marantz UK (D&M sales) in Belfast this morning and they are expecting their shipments of M-CR610s next week on the 14th of August. Hopefully they will be available in shops soon afterwards.

At least one of your machines will then do gapless FLAC and WAV up to 24/192.

 

[SiUK]

Seems it slipped through considerations at the time of having the idea for a third unit. Had a lot of consecutive stuff going on and my attention wasn't fully on the details ...well that's the only thing I can say to explain it without calling myself an idiot.

Anyway. Took your advice and returning last one. Have preordered the new Marantz. Estimate for delivery is 31st August. As you say st least one wil do gapless then.

 

[chebby]

Looking forward to your impressions of the new M-CR610.

You'll have both generations of the M-CR6nn and will be able to do a direct comparison at least a couple of weeks before the WHF review is published.

 

[SiUK]

Hi chebby

Unfortunately it looks like I won't be able to do a side by side comparison. After much deliberation I decided to contact Peter Tysons and ask them nicely to take back the other Marantz M-CR603s adn repace with the new M-CR610s. The chap I spoke to was extremely helpful and all credit to them, they have agreed and done me a great deal. And as I was 'at it' I also decided to buy a pair of Q Acoustics Concept 20s to go with the one for the front room, together with some Audioquest cable (same as above) but 4 to 4 for bi-amping them. Didn't get the dedicated stands though, can't stretch to that at the moment. But if they don't sound good I'll just have to manage to get them somehow. Not only that but they will be coming earlier than I said above. So may have them all in just over a week from now. I am very happy indeed.

I am really glad I contacted Peter Tysons directly. They have been incredibly helpful and I get to keep the Q Acoustics speakers I've got. Just a swap and pay difference.

 

[SiUK]

Chebby (or anyone else)

As you've had the M-CR603 for sometime, you'll know (not to be presumptuous or anything) what I mean when I say that these Marantz's have an open 3Dlike soundstage that you get used to fairly quickly. I was listening to a friends system the day before yesterday and realised I wasn't actually impressed (it cost 3 times what mine cost me) as it wasn't as open and layered as mine, but his was more 2d. With that in mind would switching to a NAIM setup be a good idea, given than people here say NAIM has more a 2Dlike sound? I'm taken with the way the Marantz handles my music, and whilst I want to 'go bigger and better' at some stage I really don't want to lose the open, layered sound that the Marantz currently provides.

 

[drummerman]

I somewhat think you are chasing the impossible with these little micros having read through your numerous previous posts.

As good as they may be for the price they are still £400/300 micro systems. Marantz make more expensive components for a reason. You may loose the small form factor but gain quality though I do understand the attractions of the former as I am myself considering simplyfiying my system.

Then there's the cyrus streamers you could consider too as you have liked the brand in the past. Small boxes, good quality but as many nice things, expensive, or you could perhaps use a SBT with a cyrus amplifier. Not quite as integrated as the Marantz micro but probably better SQ.

regards

 

[SiUK]

Hello drummerman

Thanks very much for your reply. I actually agree with you is some respects, it's a £500 micro and you can't get blood out of a stone, but then it's no ordinary micro, and it really punches above its weight. But that aside for the moment, I think I may have worded my post a bit wierdly actually. Well I don't think I did, I did.

To be a littler clearer, I actually meant that I really don't want to move back to a more singularly 2D sound now as the Marantz's detailed, layered 3Dlike soundstage has got me my the goolies and I'd be extremely reluctant to buy anything with lesser ability in that particular respect. That's aside of the Marantz's feature set, which seems unique to Marantz at any price. And that's what I feel my problem is now, choosing something else to satisfy after this Marantz box has captivated me with all its goings on. It's kind of annoying as I only got the one for downstairs as a temporary solution to se me through a transition period, and it's pretty much already changed the way I think about hi-fi, which I wasn't expecting at all...especially as I struggled initially adapting to it. But now I see it as a bit of a game changer actually, with all the features it has under one lid, combined with such an impressive sound quality at a modest price.

I was looking at spending around 3.5K (maybe 4K at a push) on my next system, but there's not a great deal at that competes with it in features at the price. I don't doubt that the sound will improve as I head upwards, but I'm struggling now as I don't see the point of losing a load of features I have got used to already for better sound quality. This is the opposite view to the one I held for many years. My priorities seem to have shifted you see. Myabe an age thing. Anyhow, I think I maybe just 'want it all' without any nonsense I suppose, like some others.

Some folk here have commented on the Naim systems sounding rather 2Dlike, and I had been looking at the Naim SuperUniti and Naim Uniti 2 as possible alternatives, but the thought of spending out so much to return to a more 2Dlike soundstage has put me off somewhat you see. So as much as I don't want multiple boxes anymore, I'm wondering if what I want isn't about without going down that route. In which case I may simply wait it out for a year or so and see 'what happens next'.

 

[chebby]

No good asking me.

I moved from Naim to the '603

 

[chebby]

And I totally agree with you about the stereo abilities of the M-CR603, especially with stuff like these...

 

[ID.]

Ooh, I've got that SACD.

 

[chebby]

Ooh, I've got that SACD.

My collection of Living Stereo CDs / Hybrid SACDs is growing slowly. Any others you would particularly recommend?

 

[the record spot]

Ooh, I've got that SACD.

My collection of Living Stereo CDs / Hybrid SACDs is growing slowly. Any others you would particularly recommend?

Just about any of them really. The Leontyne Price disc is very good however.