Marantz PM12 Special Edition

[ScubaCollie]

Im certainly no Audiophile and the below are just my thoughts and feelings.

As some of you may have read from my previous thread asking for advice on upgrading my Marantz PM50 Amp from 1991, I decided to take a gamble and purchased the Marantz PM12 Special Edition which is a Class D Amplifier.

I had previously auditioned the Roxan Antessa and found it too soft without any sparkle.

I then listened to the Arcam S20 which i thought sounded better than the Antessa, however it didn't have enough richness and detail compared to what i was used to with my PM50, and wouldn't have considered that an upgrade.

I do not consider myself an Audiophile, however i do know what i like and what i don't like.

I therefore took a gamble and purchased the Marantz PM12 Special Edition.

I feel some type of strange romance with Marantz, and therefore went against the advise of some of the members on this forum.

I received the amplifier on Monday, and spent most of the afternoon and evening up to the early hours listening to it, as well as most of the day yesterday and all of last night up until the early hours of this morning.

I was listening to the PM12 and my PM50 simultaneously using the same Monitor Audio Silver 500 speakers.

How did i find my new amp? Really disappointing to be honest.

I purchased my PM50 from Ebay approx 15 years ago, when money was tight, for between £150.00-£200.00, and have enjoyed many years listening to music on this amp and have thoroughly enjoyed it.

Now that money is a bit better, i wanted to treat myself to a new Amp, and due to the PM50 being my first stereo amp, and enjoying it so much, i had a love for Marantz and felt some sort of emotional connection with the brand.

I therefore really wanted this to work, but it wasn't so.

As mentioned, i'm no Audiophile, however this is some of the things i noted whilst listening to them both.

PM50
Richer, Warmer, more focused and controlled vocals, vocals realistic and natural, can imagine somebody standing in front of you singing, more musical than the PM12SE, can listen for hours without fatigue.

PM12SE
More fuller bodied and spacious sounding, but also slightly on the bolshy side, and would become fatigued during long listening sessions, vocals and highs more upfront, sharper/gritty/harsh, doesn't blend in with the rest of the music, vocals are clearer but almost too clear and very artificial sounding, it sounds like the vocals were almost an after thought....

And the main thing for me? I love female vocals, but they didn't have any emotion on the PM12SE, whereas the PM50 provides such an emotional feeling to some of the vocals i listen to (for example Memory from CATS with Elaine Paige).

Therefore i have sent the PM12SE back, and have kept my PM50....such a shame as i really wanted this to work, but i couldn't justify keeping a 3K Amp that i wasn't happy with.

How can a 3K amp not sound better to me than my PM50?

Anyway some videos below (they don't prove much as its only been taken from the mic on my smartphone)

PM50

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zp45k6FtxYc


PM50

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6zshiuTmJ0&t=71s


PM12SE

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lwna0IgDsU


PM12SE

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXxhg46GmZk&t=90s

 

[Gray]

Sorry it didn't work out for you Scuba.
I probably won't bother with the videos, because, as you alluded to, they prove nothing soundwise.

 

[WayneKerr]

Really sorry it didn’t work out for you. An amp change can sound strange if you are familiar with your old sound, you sometimes need time for your ears/brain to acclimatise. I think you may have been a bit hasty but if it didn’t work for you then that’s all that really matters. You’ll find most amps these days far more analytical than your current amp, this can come across as harshness, brightness, forward and a forced kind of sound with far less warmth.

I heard some of the artefacts you describe when I first got mine and it did confuse me, it was definitely different to what I was used to and I wasn’t sure I liked it. After playing around with it for 2-3 weeks I eventually ‘got it’, the harsh, bright or forward sound was actually accuracy and detail on levels I was not used to. Fast forward 2 years and I couldn’t go back. My old amp still cuts it but my current one bests it in every area.

Good luck Scuba and enjoy what you have

 

[Gray]

I did have a listen on headphones - and heard more bass from the PM50.
But it was hard to tell much else.

Very true what Wayne says above. New things can sound very wrong when compared to sounds that you're very familiar with.

 

[ScubaCollie]

Many Thanks both, very kind of you.

I haven't quite given up yet, as I would ideally like an Amp with remote control.

The WIIM Pro Plus has really been great, providing me with my music without needing to set up my laptop each time I want to listen to my music.

I may see if I can get hold of a used Marantz PM8007, as there isn't anything else in their new line of amps that would be any different to the PM12.

 

[WayneKerr]

Many Thanks both, very kind of you.

I haven't quite given up yet, as I would ideally like an Amp with remote control.

The WIIM Pro Plus has really been great, providing me with my music without needing to set up my laptop each time I want to listen to my music.

I may see if I can get hold of a used Marantz PM8007, as there isn't anything else in their new line of amps that would be any different to the PM12.

Well at least half of your upgrade path worked for you

 

[Oxfordian]

Disappointing to hear that your new amp hasn't worked out.

Just a suggestion but why not look at a Hegel, the H190 is in the process of being discontinued and can be found about £1k under retail.

Now apparently the Hegel is a neutral amp in that it doesn't add or take away anything from the source.

On a side note a PM45 was my first Hifi amp, I liked it a lot until it went pop many many years ago.

Good luck in your search.

 

[WayneKerr]

Disappointing to hear that your new amp hasn't worked out.

Just a suggestion but why not look at a Hegel, the H190 is in the process of being discontinued and can be found about £1k under retail.

Now apparently the Hegel is a neutral amp in that it doesn't add or take away anything from the source.

On a side note a PM45 was my first Hifi amp, I liked it a lot until it went pop many many years ago.

Good luck in your search.

Good call Oxfordian but I don't think Scuba is looking for neutral, he's looking for warmth. My only concern with this is whilst amps may differ slightly in their signature there seems to have been a move by all brands towards a more neutral sound. Speakers are very much the voice of the amp and need to be chosen according to the room they will be placed in.

Scuba's amp is 30 years old and was a very good amp at that time but is probably past its best now with a very warm signature, this matches his MA speakers, room, and ears perfectly. Bring neutrality into it and you've got an overly bright presentation requiring some form of damping. Different people want different things, some like bright or warm, some don't.

You have Hegel + ATC = neutral+neutral, I'm assuming your room has dampening in one form or another - furntiture, etc. I have Marantz + Harbeth and the only warmth induced comes from furnishings. The room plays such a huge part in the overall presentation.

This could be a difficult nut to crack.

 

[ScubaCollie]

Hi Guys, the PM12SE wasn't far off, but had to use the EQ on the WIIM Pro Plus to knock 4k down to 0.2db, it then started to sound a little more like the PM50.

However I still didn't think it was worth keeping when I've already got an Amp that sounds like that and even slightly better than that and could be £3k better off by sending it back!

 

[WayneKerr]

If you think you might need some room correction to get the sound you require then one option could be a Lyngdorf amp. Heard about them but I have no knowledge of how they sound. Dirac Live software is available too, I dabbled a few years ago but it was a faff so didn't continue.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

On a side note a PM45 was my first Hifi amp

And its bigger brothers the PM64, PM84 and PM94 were also excellent

 

[MUSICRAFT]

I may see if I can get hold of a used.

I know the PM50 well as a relative has been using one with their Wharfedale speakers for the last thirty years. We sell Silver 500's and I'll say that either carry on using the PM50 or if you're happy to try used amplification then also consider Naim Audio's NAIT XS MK1. This should do the trick for you.

 

[Oxfordian]

You have Hegel + ATC = neutral+neutral, I'm assuming your room has dampening in one form or another - furntiture, etc.

I have a carpeted floor with rug, a few pictures dotted around the wall, a blind over the window my listening futon and that's about it, the walls are new build plasterboard with allegedly some top quality insulation behind them.

There is no off the shelf dampening that I have intentionally added to the room just good old fashion life stuff.

 

[WayneKerr]

I have a carpeted floor with rug, a few pictures dotted around the wall, a blind over the window my listening futon and that's about it, the walls are new build plasterboard with allegedly some top quality insulation behind them.

There is no off the shelf dampening that I have intentionally added to the room just good old fashion life stuff.

Apologies, by dampening I meant soft furnishings, like a carpet or rug etc., making the room less 'lively'.