A converted sceptic

[steve_1979]

From ProAc Installatin Guide page 6 :

Like all thoroughbreds, proac loudspeakers need to be broken in. The drive units are pair mached and tested for frequency response, distortion and phase, but expect to run them in for at least a week before any serious auditioning can take place. Anticipate a further one or two months before optimum performance is achieved .

This excatly what happened to me first my Proacs sound harsh and bright it took about 6 month before they started to sound excellent as it should be .

Comparing hifi equipment to breaking in a horse. Yep that seems perfectly logical. :?

(I'm not meaning to have a dig at ProAc here because a moving mechanical piece of equipment such as a speaker driver could well change over time. The comparison just made me smile. )

 

[TrevC]

Tellurium Q Black [speaker cables] - Tellurium Q Ultra Black [RCA interconnects] - WireWorld Stratus 7 [power cords]

About £500 wasted?

i'm an open minded sceptic, but Trev you're a bore. If you feel so strongly about it why not hang around the websites of the manufacturers you believe are crooks and leave this forum ...

How is that a response to what I said? It isn't, it's a personal attack on me, and I'm most offended. Kindly retract sir!

 

[pauln]

"Anyone who has listened to loudspeakers cables and line-level interconnects will have discovered that cables and interconnects start to sound better (smoother treble,greater ease, less grain, more dimensioal soundstage) after they've been in the system for a few days. this phenomenon is often called "break-in" . It's easy to understand " break-in" of loudspeakers drivers and phono cartridges (the rubber surround in loudspeaker deivers and the rubber suspension in cartridges relaxes with use) ... "

The Complete Guide to High-End Audio by Robert Harley . Ch. 11 p. 293

Has it never occurred to you that these people you keep quoting might not be telling the truth?

 

[BigH]

From ProAc Installatin Guide page 6 :

Like all thoroughbreds, proac loudspeakers need to be broken in. The drive units are pair mached and tested for frequency response, distortion and phase, but expect to run them in for at least a week before any serious auditioning can take place. Anticipate a further one or two months before optimum performance is achieved .

This excatly what happened to me first my Proacs sound harsh and bright it took about 6 month before they started to sound excellent as it should be .

Or took you that long to adjust to the sound.

 

[ifor]

Tellurium Q Black [speaker cables] - Tellurium Q Ultra Black [RCA interconnects] - WireWorld Stratus 7 [power cords]

About £500 wasted?

i'm an open minded sceptic, but Trev you're a bore. If you feel so strongly about it why not hang around the websites of the manufacturers you believe are crooks and leave this forum ...

How is that a response to what I said? It isn't, it's a personal attack on me, and I'm most offended. Kindly retract sir!

It is both. I am very close to leaving this forum after many years. There are some great and reasonable people here, but none of them are fundamentalists.

 

[TrevC]

hi trev c ,no im not missing the point,the point is at every given chance you are always putting people down saying there findings are wrong ,cables i/c isolation burn in,i dont think at any point that you may of considerd you might be wrong,and there findings might be very real to them.ive never seen a book the laws of hifi by trev c,i dont claim to be an expert,but i dont go about putting people down for what there hearing,sorry i feel better now after my little rant.:silenced:

TrevC thinks he is a big expert in the Hi Fi world : all the cables sound the same to him , there is no need for burn in period for components act. act.

The true is that is hearing isn't sensitive enough to notice all the differences that distinguishing between good Hi Fi system to a medicore one .but he will never admit that sad true :wall:

So, to summarise, you think my ears are simply not good enough to hear imaginary differences that you can hear in items that cannot possibly sound different. I think I can live with that.

"Anyone who has listened to loudspeakers cables and line-level interconnects will have discovered that cables and interconnects start to sound better (smoother treble,greater ease, less grain, more dimensioal soundstage) after they've been in the system for a few days. this phenomenon is often called "break-in" . It's easy to understand " break-in" of loudspeakers drivers and phono cartridges (the rubber surround in loudspeaker deivers and the rubber suspension in cartridges relaxes with use) ... "

The Complete Guide to High-End Audio by Robert Harley . Ch. 11 p. 293

Don't give me the nunsense that I imagine things ...

You highlighted a part I agree with. The cables and interconnect part is hogwash, you don't change a piece of wire by running a signal through it.

 

[TrevC]

Tellurium Q Black [speaker cables] - Tellurium Q Ultra Black [RCA interconnects] - WireWorld Stratus 7 [power cords]

About £500 wasted?

i'm an open minded sceptic, but Trev you're a bore. If you feel so strongly about it why not hang around the websites of the manufacturers you believe are crooks and leave this forum ...

How is that a response to what I said? It isn't, it's a personal attack on me, and I'm most offended. Kindly retract sir!

It is both. I am very close to leaving this forum after many years. There are some great and reasonable people here, but none of them are fundamentalists.

Yep. Those Christians eh?

 

[ifor]

What perverse pleasure do you get from it?

 

[TrevC]

What perverse pleasure do you get from it?

I like to help people.

 

[matthewpiano]

I tend to try and sit on the fence during these discussions but I've been doing some experimenting this week. As a consequence, in addition to my existing feeling that only speakers really break in, I feel increasingly confident that:

Digital cables make no difference, as long as they are made well enough to work.

Power cables make no difference. I was recently fooled that some Merlin power cables had changed the sound of my system, but further evaluation and comparison shows that they don't.

CD transports make no difference. Plugging a range of different CD players into the same DAC using optical connection made absolutely no difference to the sound produced. At all.

With all this in mind, I think it is important for these forums to be balanced by people like TrevC who come at these issues from a more objective stance. After all, there are plenty of people speaking for the other side.

 

[matt49]

With all this in mind, I think it is important for these forums to be balanced by people like TrevC who come at these issues from a more objective stance. After all, there are plenty of people speaking for the other side.

In principle, yes. But sadly people don't seem to be able to put their view without resorting to childish mockery -- such as listing the cables in someone's signature and claiming it's all wasted money.

It's pitiful really.

Matt

 

[Vladimir]

What perverse pleasure do you get from it?

I like to help people.

One could say you have a need to nurse people back to health.

 

[davedotco]

I find it odd that, in this argument at least, it seems to be all about absolutes. I do not think that is the case.

I am, for example perfectly happy with the idea that cables can alter the sound of a system, the fact that mostly they do not does not surprise me either.

Like some posters on this thread, I have heard clear differences between cables but unlike them I have heard these differences effectively dissapear in controlled tests.

Similarly I think electronic components sound better when at optimum temperature, but I think 'running in' over time is a function of the listener, not the equipment.

Responding to mathewpiano's post above, I find that the use of a good CD transport does make a difference, in real time at least. Though if, as I suspect, he is talking about differences between budget items, he is probably correct.

 

[Vladimir]

Marvin Pontiac

Legendary Marvin Pontiac

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2OhsQpXxvQ

 

[Vladimir]

What is High Fidelity?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziMw7uh9VNo

 

[Alantiggger]

Some folks would say that it is probably those who have spent far too much money on things that don't really change their sound/ soundfields.... that doth protest TOO much ?

I myself have no good idea as I cannot afford to be SO wrong.

If folks are deemed 'daft enough' to reckon that they DO indeed hear a difference to things that are just plain 'daft', let them be.... if it makes them themselves happy, then so be it, in my own humble opinion.

I do have quite a good few different speakers and they do give off different types of noise/sound.... but the type of cables used make no difference to how the speakers sound, this I DO know.

So for me anyway, for all of the people who as some may say have spent far too much money or have even wasted a heck of a LOT of money.... to those folks I say, no matter... If You can hear the difference, THAT'S what matters. :? :clap: ( :rofl: )

 

[andyjm]

Probably a generalisation, but those who post on this forum with a technical or scientific background seem to be extremely sceptical about the claims made for cables, burn in and similar effects. Those without a technical background seem more inclined to embrace these effects with open arms.

There is a wealth of research on the web about suggestion bias and the imperfect nature of human perception, and the complete lack of independent research from reputable organisations about cables, burn in and similar claims.

I would suggest that those who are convinced that they hear the effects discussed on this and similar threads do some research on the net, or perhaps try a blind testing session (the one proposed for London?) to see whether their beliefs hold up to scrutiny.

 

[peterpiper]

in addition to my existing feeling that only speakers really break in,

this is why I said I was a sceptic with these things, and probably still am but with a more open mind, i have not really heard differences with time with any of the speakers I have owned which is surprising....... what you hear is what you get has always been my opnion

cd players and even amps, not heard anthing notably different over time

I even owned a CA dacmagic and laughed at the user reviews about the filter settings,,,,,,,,,'linear' sounds cleaner, 'minimum' has more open fieldscape, 'steep' sounds full and warm......errr no, they all sounded EXACTLY the same to me,time and time again what exactly are these people hearing

yet this vinyl system I set up seem to have got better, noticably so,

 

[TrevC]

With all this in mind, I think it is important for these forums to be balanced by people like TrevC who come at these issues from a more objective stance. After all, there are plenty of people speaking for the other side.

In principle, yes. But sadly people don't seem to be able to put their view without resorting to childish mockery -- such as listing the cables in someone's signature and claiming it's all wasted money.

It's pitiful really.

Matt

He asked for it. I thought I was very restrained, all things considered.

 

[TrevC]

in addition to my existing feeling that only speakers really break in,

this is why I said I was a sceptic with these things, and probably still am but with a more open mind, i have not really heard differences with time with any of the speakers I have owned which is surprising....... what you hear is what you get has always been my opnion

cd players and even amps, not heard anthing notably different over time

I even owned a CA dacmagic and laughed at the user reviews about the filter settings,,,,,,,,,'linear' sounds cleaner, 'minimum' has more open fieldscape, 'steep' sounds full and warm......errr no, they all sounded EXACTLY the same to me,time and time again what exactly are these people hearing

yet this vinyl system I set up seem to have got better, noticably so,

Many on here think that a lack of any major differences between the enormously expensive electronics and the budget stuff is a negative thing, when it's the opposite. It means the smart and savvy punter can have the best sound too. Providing they can afford the best speakers, that is.

 

[Vladimir]

Trev, what is your take on the conception that one can combine expensive and extreme performing hifi components and get terrible results that can be surpassed by 10 times or 100 times cheaper well matched budget components?

Example:

Random hi-end: Wilson Alexandria XLF + 2x Classe Omega power + Classe Omega Pre + Esoteric K-01 CD/SACD + Cardas interconnects + Nordost speaker cable + Audioquest power cables.

Well matched budget: Neat Momentum 4i + Naim Supernait 2 + Naim Supercap + Naim CDx2 + Naim Cables.

 

[matt49]

He asked for it. I thought I was very restrained, all things considered.

As I said, pitiful -- especially since only a couple of posts earlier you piously claimed to only play the ball, not the man.

 

[Broner]

He asked for it. I thought I was very restrained, all things considered.

As I said, pitiful -- especially since only a couple of posts earlier you piously claimed to only play the ball, not the man.

Considering the blatantly agressive and insulting responses of some people around here, I can't help but feel that you are criticizing the wrong person. I for one feel that TrevC has showed enormous restraint after many of the direct attacks aimed at him. It wouldn't be too hard to find several dozen personal distasteful qualifications that TrevC had to endure, and what is it that TrevC does: he says that somebody has wasted £500.

 

[TrevC]

Deleted

 

[matt49]

Considering the blatantly agressive and insulting responses of some people around here, I can't help but feel that you are criticizing the wrong person. I for one feel that TrevC has showed enormous restraint after many of the direct attacks aimed at him. It wouldn't be too hard to find several dozen personal distasteful qualifications that TrevC had to endure, and what is it that TrevC does: he says that somebody has wasted £500.

Don’t get me wrong – there’s silliness and rudeness on every page of this thread. And I agree that some of TrevC’s antagonists have behaved like twerps.

But he doesn’t have to endure this; he doesn’t have to endure anything. He knows perfectly well how these people are going to behave. If he doesn't like it, he can back out, but no: many of his posts are simply designed to bait and mock.

I happen to agree with him about cables. But rational arguments need to be put rationally. If you’re going to teach people the error of their ways, then behave like a teacher, not like a child. I’d expect higher standards of behaviour from people who know they’re in the right.

Matt