what is Hi-end hifi

[hybridauth_Facebook_664715932]

Happy saturday evey1,

What is your perception of truly Hi-end hi fi?
I know the very term 'hi-end' is subjective but in hifi scene everything is subjective but there is no harm in sharing opinions.

My first set cost me around £450-500 which I bought in early 90s (those were the days)it was a decent set up and comparing to all my cousins and friends kenwood, aiwa, technics, etc etc my system sounded a lot better with mf amp and bw speakers. had the system for 20 years untill few years ago I decided to upgrade my system. In last 3 years I had been through 2 pair of speakers a couple of amps and cdp.
I am now happy/content with my current setup which cost around £3.5k. altough I know you can buy a pair interconnects for lot more that I consider my setup almost hi-end.
My idea of a truly/sensible hi-end hi fi would be a set up costing around £6-7k.

Thanks for reading.

 

[Vladimir]

My idea of a truly/sensible hi-end hi fi would be a set up costing around £6-7k.

If you orient by price alone, then surely it has to be at the top end of the market to be called "hi-end." The very tip of the iceberg, as in hundreds of thousands of pounds/dolars/bitcoins...

Product price contains variables such as performance, build quality, luxury features, exclusivity and percieved brand value. Not a simple answer to this but a great classical weekend thread nevertheless.

 

[macdiddy]

to afford to buy something I see in a hifi magazine then that's my definition of high end.

but seriously I have seen and heard equipment worth thousands but even if it look's and sounds awesome I've realised that I could never buy any of it without some kind of lottery win.

*dance4*

 

[Thompsonuxb]

You can get hi end sound for alot less than 6k.

We'll matched products can perform to 'hi end' costing standards.

Cost imo does not define hi end hifi, Sound does.

 

[bigfish786]

The equipment and accessories that I read about, and think the prices are crazy, but would love to own... If only...

I think of my own set-up as mid-fi. No plastic boxes, just components built of decent quality. With good performance.

Other people's opinions may vary.

I think my total setup was less than 3k to buy, but had a 6k+ rrp.

(This includes the Marantz TT-15 I have just ordered)

 

[dim_span]

6K on the used market (older hifi equipment) will get you a much better system than buying new

just do your research on forums as to what works well together as you will be buying without auditioning

 

[davedotco]

My first encounter with 'real' high end came in the very early 80s. I had hands on a Mark Levinson pre-power anplifier that cost well into 5 figures, to put it in perspective it cost more than a complete top of the line, active, Linn/Naim/Isobarik system, the most expensive system we sold at that time.

From then on I considered hi-end to be product that had to be included as one of the best products of it's type that you could buy, and very expensive. In modern terms I would suggest a cost starting at £10k per component for entry level and going up from there.

About twenty years (or so) ago, there was an attempt to change the meaning of the term, with 'hi-fi' debased to a point of meaninglessness, as it is now, the suggestion was to apply the term to any product that had been built as a genuine attempt to produce the best possible sound for the price.

A minimum quality level was assumed to apply, but above that any serious kit that was a real attempt to reproduce music was considered hi-end. In the current market, that would probably mean an entry level of about £1k per component, a bit less maybe for some exceptional items. The term never caught on.

 

[steve_1979]

For most 'normal' people high end is anything that costs over £100.

For me high end is when the sound quality has the necessary clarity, dynamic range and bass extension to sound good. This can be either cheap or expensive, the price is irrelevant (within reason) and many expensive bling hifi is not high end at all IMO.

 

[drummerman]

Ah, the old 'high end' thread

By its definition ... super expensive.

Not always comensurate with sound quality or value but on occasions awesome.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_664715932]

Thanks for all your reply, my saturday evening just got a lot more interesting.

 

[davedotco]

I do not believe that price is the sole arbiter of whether a product is hi-end, performance is pivotal. Without performance 'bling' is nothing, real high end tends to be well made and beautifully finished but if it does not perform, that is irrelevant.

I have been lucky enough to have heard a few truly hi-end systems, the performance has, in each case, been truly breathtaking, as far beyond good regular hi-fi is such a system is beyond a Curry's £60 system.

The important point here is that in all my time in 'the business' this as happened on maybe half a dozen occasions and in very special circumstances. I have never heard such a system in a shop or at a show.

 

[Freddy58]

Out of interest, when comparing an amp that costs say £1000 to one that costs tens of thousands, what extra in terms of sound quality do you get for those extra thousands? One hears the term 'transparent' mentioned quite often, which implies that the amp should only amplify the signal, and nothing more.

 

[Macspur]

6K on the used market (older hifi equipment) will get you a much better system than buying new

just do your research on forums as to what works well together as you will be buying without auditioning

Agreed. I would never have been able to afford my set up brand new.

Mac

www.macsmusic.blogbubble.net

 

[davedotco]

Out of interest, when comparing an amp that costs say £1000 to one that costs tens of thousands, what extra in terms of sound quality do you get for those extra thousands? One hears the term 'transparent' mentioned quite often, which implies that the amp should only amplify the signal, and nothing more.

Mostly you don't.

At this level an awful lot is down to system building and setup. In these situations the best amplifier is the one that 'fits' the system, synergy is very important here, heaven knows why or how but it just is.

The magic that makes for a truly exceptional experience can be quite elusive, the 'right' amplifier is important, not the 'best' amplifier in any kind of individual sense.

 

[hg]

Out of interest, when comparing an amp that costs say £1000 to one that costs tens of thousands, what extra in terms of sound quality do you get for those extra thousands? One hears the term 'transparent' mentioned quite often, which implies that the amp should only amplify the signal, and nothing more.

For £1000 it is trivial to achieve a neutral sound (i.e. distortion levels below what can be perceived) when the amplifier is operated within it's limits if that is what the designer wants. If a person opts to spend tens of thousands on an amplifier then it is a fairly safe assumption that obtaining a neutral sound was not a priority.

 

[lindsayt]

I'm with steve_1979 on this.

There's high end by price.

And there's high end by sound quality.

You could draw a simple Venn diagram. Some components and systems that are high end by price are also high end by sound quality, but many aren't.

High end by price, starts at somewhere between £10k and £20k per component (where tt, arm, cartridge count as 1 component). High end by price for cables is above about £1k.

High end by sound quality by my definition means that it sounds, swings and roundabouts, about as good as anything ever made.

So, for example a £800 pair of Quad ESL 57's would get in my definition of high end by sound quality, because nothing else is better at that magical midrange that they have, especially for chamber music. This is even though there are speakers with better bass and treble and for playing at very high volumes.

Every year I've been to the Scalford show I've heard at least 2 systems that I'd rate as high end.

 

[MeanandGreen]

For most 'normal' people high end is anything that costs over £100.

For me high end is when the sound quality has the necessary clarity, dynamic range and bass extension to sound good. This can be either cheap or expensive, the price is irrelevant (within reason) and many expensive bling hifi is not high end at all IMO.

I totally agree with this ^^

I know people who think £150 - £250 for a Bluetooth speaker is expensive high end audio equipment. Especially if it has a BOSE label on it.

High end to me is exactly what Steve has said, sound that has the required clarity, dynamics, definition, stereo image etc... etc... to sound right. Recorded music is only so good, a lot of it is quite bad. If your system can reveal the difference between source matterial and equipment then surely that's high fidelity. I honestly don't think it takes all that much to achieve accurate reproduction of recorded material. As long as a system is neutral or well matched and set up well in it's environment it doesn't need to cost the earth to get the recorded sound to your ears acuratley.

If you bring headphones into the equation I think a really simple high fidelity system could be put together for little cost.

 

[lindsayt]

If we're talking about modern solid state mainstream amps selling for £1000 new, then I totally disagree with hg. As every amplifier of that ilk that I've heard sounds to my ears like there's an amplifier in the signal path when used with my speakers and compared to my £1250 (new) 2 watt SET amp - which relatively speaking, sounds like there isn't an amplifier in the signal path.

And amongst solid state amps, especially with speakers that are far less amp-friendly than mine, spending more than £1000 new, might get you something that's better at sounding as if there isn't an amp in the signal path.

 

[lindsayt]

And my definition of high end sound is: how good is it at not sounding like a hi-fi? How good is it at sounding like the musicians are there in the room; on a wide variety of recordings?

 

[Native_bon]

Wow, am shocked how everyone seems to come to reality just now. Everyone seems to agree the same on this thread. NICE!! *yahoo*

 

[davedotco]

Wow, am shocked how everyone seems to come to reality just now. Everyone seems to agree the same on this thread. NICE!! *yahoo*

Sorry to burst you bubble, but not everyone......!

As I tried to explain, there is a level that can be reached by the true hi-end that is so far beyond what is discussed on here as to be, to all intents and purposes, from a different world.

Sure, you need a good recording, a decent room and all the rest but the standards that are possible leaves you believing that, the entire system is not there and, at that moment, completely irrelevant.

I understand that such systems are quite rare and many enthusiasts never get to hear them, but as I said I have been lucky and heard maybe half a dozen such setups in optimum conditions.

The one thing these setups had in common was nothing to do with the equipment, everything to do with the people who designed, built and set them up, as I said, system building is everything.

 

[Macspur]

Wow, am shocked how everyone seems to come to reality just now. Everyone seems to agree the same on this thread. NICE!! *yahoo*

Sorry to burst you bubble, but not everyone......!

As I tried to explain, there is a level that can be reached by the true hi-end that is so far beyond what is discussed on here as to be, to all intents and purposes, from a different world.

Sure, you need a good recording, a decent room and all the rest but the standards that are possible leaves you believing that, the entire system is not there and, at that moment, completely irrelevant.

I understand that such systems are quite rare and many enthusiasts never get to hear them, but as I said I have been lucky and heard maybe half a dozen such setups in optimum conditions.

The one thing these setups had in common was nothing to do with the equipment, everything to do with the people who designed, built and set them up, as I said, system building is everything.

Just as a matter of interest, are you able to list any of these set ups?

Mac

www.macsmusic.blogbubble.net

 

[davedotco]

Wow, am shocked how everyone seems to come to reality just now. Everyone seems to agree the same on this thread. NICE!! *yahoo*

Sorry to burst you bubble, but not everyone......!

As I tried to explain, there is a level that can be reached by the true hi-end that is so far beyond what is discussed on here as to be, to all intents and purposes, from a different world.

Sure, you need a good recording, a decent room and all the rest but the standards that are possible leaves you believing that, the entire system is not there and, at that moment, completely irrelevant.

I understand that such systems are quite rare and many enthusiasts never get to hear them, but as I said I have been lucky and heard maybe half a dozen such setups in optimum conditions.

The one thing these setups had in common was nothing to do with the equipment, everything to do with the people who designed, built and set them up, as I said, system building is everything.

Just as a matter of interest, are you able to list any of these set ups?

Mac

www.macsmusic.blogbubble.net

I could, but when I do go on about these things I get accused of name dropping and telling tall stories.

I was in the industry for many years, I have heard all the stuff in dealers and shows but there is a level above all of that, that almost defies description.

 

[CnoEvil]

I could, but when I do go on about these things I get accused of name dropping and telling tall stories.

I was in the industry for many years, I have heard all the stuff in dealers and shows but there is a level above all of that, that almost defies description.

Even so, it has to be better than the usual bollox that's discussed on here.

 

[Freddy58]

I could, but when I do go on about these things I get accused of name dropping and telling tall stories.

I was in the industry for many years, I have heard all the stuff in dealers and shows but there is a level above all of that, that almost defies description.

Even so, it has to be better than the usual bollox that's discussed on here.

Eh?