Warming up hi-fi

[kitkat]

So when I woke today I put the hi-fi on in the living room and went to have a shower, make a coffee etc, the misses said "why is the hi-fi on and nobody is listening to it" ? my reply "I am warming it up so its sounds better when I go back in the room to listen" She just laughed and laughed saying it makes no difference to the sound, of course it does I replied, music sounds much better once the equipment has reached its optimum operating temp. Please can all you good people confirm this to her so I can have the last laugh :rofl:

 

[Hi-FiOutlaw]

What amp do you have?

I had a Brio R that was ON 24/7 it sounded much better, if Turn it off it took about 2/3 to sound the same! So always ON! :wave:

Now have a hybrid Pathos and it needs a 10/15 min warm up.

 

[toyota man]

It sounds much better after half an hour of warm up I usauly switch mine on when I get in from work by the time Ive freshenedup its all ready to rock and roll :rockout:

 

[MajorFubar]

Never noticed a difference. Well not on solid-state amps anyway. There's nothing I can think of in a solid-state amp which shouldn't be operating optimally from the minute you switch it on. Otherwise we're saying that some components in your average HiFi don't work to their specified ratings and tolerences until they've been switched on for a while. This would be classified as a fault and the component would have been rejected during manufacture.

 

[busb]

Ask yourelf this: if she either switch it on or not, would you be able to hear the difference? I know many people sneer at the idea of saving fuel but I'm no longer willing to be so obsessive regarding the tiny or imagined improvements! However, each to their own.

 

[ifor]

So when I woke today I put the hi-fi on in the living room and went to have a shower, make a coffee etc, the misses said "why is the hi-fi on and nobody is listening to it" ? my reply "I am warming it up so its sounds better when I go back in the room to listen" She just laughed and laughed saying it makes no difference to the sound, of course it does I replied, music sounds much better once the equipment has reached its optimum operating temp. Please can all you good people confirm this to her so I can have the last laugh :rofl:

This might help. http://audio-forum.gspaudio.co.uk/burnin-revisited_topic547.html#23322

 

[ISAC69]

It sounds much better after an hour of warm up . Much better :rockout:

 

[Stereosane]

I remember when setting up big rigs for Trance parties that we always had to warm up the speakers for an hour or two before the Dj's started playing. I never thought much of it until I got into home audio. So if your using SS amps it could be the speakers, I'm sure the rubber surrounds will loosen up the more they get warm, I don't know how that would affect the sound but I'm sure it does. On my Nad C316 it takes about 4 hours to get to its best, and it doesn't make a difference wether I sit and listen for 4 hours or leave it on and the. Only listen after 4 hours., there's def a difference. It sounds a lot more transparent than when it's just turned on. My MA Bx5 also sounded way different after a lot of hours, the tweeter sounded so much smoother, whereas when it was just turned on they sounded a bit harsh. But then again I could just be crazy and imaging it, I hope not..

 

[davedotco]

Never noticed a difference. Well not on solid-state amps anyway. There's nothing I can think of in a solid-state amp which shouldn't be operating optimally from the minute you switch it on. Otherwise we're saying that some components in your average HiFi don't work to their specified ratings and tolerences until they've been switched on for a while. This would be classified as a fault and the component would have been rejected during manufacture.

I believe that the response of active components can vary with temperature, transistors quite noticeably so.

Therefor you design the amplifier so that it sounds (and measures) it's best when the components are at normal operating temperatures, ie slightly warm.

In effect the components are 'out of spec' when cold but 'in spec' when slightly warm, the opposit of what you are suggesting.

My own entirely subjective observations suggest that warm up is a real phenomena whilst long term 'burn in' is simple the listener adjusting to the sound of new equipment.

 

[JamesMellor]

4 hours seems along time , thats all night on a school night <S> , I always thought the music sounds better after 45 mins to an hour but I dont know if thats the system warming up or me chilling down .

As for running in , the same , are you running it in or is it running you in ?

James

 

[andyjm]

Never noticed a difference. Well not on solid-state amps anyway. There's nothing I can think of in a solid-state amp which shouldn't be operating optimally from the minute you switch it on. Otherwise we're saying that some components in your average HiFi don't work to their specified ratings and tolerences until they've been switched on for a while. This would be classified as a fault and the component would have been rejected during manufacture.

I believe that the response of active components can vary with temperature, transistors quite noticeably so.

Therefor you design the amplifier so that it sounds (and measures) it's best when the components are at normal operating temperatures, ie slightly warm.

In effect the components are 'out of spec' when cold but 'in spec' when slightly warm, the opposit of what you are suggesting.

My own entirely subjective observations suggest that warm up is a real phenomena whilst long term 'burn in' is simple the listener adjusting to the sound of new equipment.

Indeed. All electronic components are temperature sensitive, particularly semiconductors. At its most extreme, temperature runaway effects can lead to the destruction of a component. A decent design will take this into account (rather like a bimetallic strip in a mechanical system) where circuit design can minimise the impact of temperature change. In highly accurate devices, components are held at controlled temperature (google 'crystal oven') to maintain stable performance.

Having said all of the above, a halfway decent engineer should be able to design most of this out, and in spite of the belief of many of the posters here, audio amps are not very demanding designs. If the gain of a few transistors wanders about a bit as the amp warms up, it MAY make an audible difference, but my guess is that it is inaudible.

The real thermal issues for amps are the startup thermal stresses caused by 'inrush current' as the system comes to life on switch on. The heat produced and subsequent mechanical deformation of components is enough to cause the component to fail. This is the reason that if the damn thing is going to pack up, it usually does it when you switch it on. During my time working for a national broadcaster, all equipment was always left on for this reason.

 

[Womaz]

An interesting post, I have always thought that the volume gets louder after about an hour or so of listening.....not necessarily better, just louder.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

This is interesting - In my experience the amps I have owned have needed no warm-up. In fact if left on for a few days the music sounds less difined and seperated. Turn it off fully and allowed to cool for 24hrs say and the amps sound more seperated, crisper. But maybe thats preference. I don't leave my amp on if its not been played. but the difference are only really noticeble during 'critical' listening...... a woman would not notice....lol.... only men do critical listening.

 

[chebby]

This is interesting - In my experience the amps I have owned have needed no warm-up. In fact if left on for a few days the music sounds less difined and seperated. Turn it off fully and allowed to cool for 24hrs say and the amps sound more seperated, crisper. But maybe thats preference. I don't leave my amp on if its not been played. but the difference are only really noticeble during 'critical' listening...... a woman would not notice....lol.... only men do critical listening.

What is critical listening?

Is it when you have to write an essay about it afterwards?

Is it a completely different experience to enjoyable listening?

Do you need to play special 'critical listening' music for it to work properly?

Why can only men do it?

Is it necessary to dress formally?

 

[Hi-FiOutlaw]

This is interesting - In my experience the amps I have owned have needed no warm-up. In fact if left on for a few days the music sounds less difined and seperated. Turn it off fully and allowed to cool for 24hrs say and the amps sound more seperated, crisper. But maybe thats preference. I don't leave my amp on if its not been played. but the difference are only really noticeble during 'critical' listening...... a woman would not notice....lol.... only men do critical listening.

women have sharper hearing that men do!

"Women typically experience a lesser degree of hearing loss than men, with a later onset. Men have approximately 5 to 10 dB greater loss in the upper frequencies by age 40. " from wikipedia.

 

[mikeparker59]

This is interesting - In my experience the amps I have owned have needed no warm-up. In fact if left on for a few days the music sounds less difined and seperated. Turn it off fully and allowed to cool for 24hrs say and the amps sound more seperated, crisper. But maybe thats preference. I don't leave my amp on if its not been played. but the difference are only really noticeble during 'critical' listening...... a woman would not notice....lol.... only men do critical listening.

women have sharper hearing that men do!

"Women typically experience a lesser degree of hearing loss than men, with a later onset. Men have approximately 5 to 10 dB greater loss in the upper frequencies by age 40. " from wikipedia.

Don't ment have selective hearing where women are concerned?

 

[Hi-FiOutlaw]

This is interesting - In my experience the amps I have owned have needed no warm-up. In fact if left on for a few days the music sounds less difined and seperated. Turn it off fully and allowed to cool for 24hrs say and the amps sound more seperated, crisper. But maybe thats preference. I don't leave my amp on if its not been played. but the difference are only really noticeble during 'critical' listening...... a woman would not notice....lol.... only men do critical listening.

women have sharper hearing that men do!

"Women typically experience a lesser degree of hearing loss than men, with a later onset. Men have approximately 5 to 10 dB greater loss in the upper frequencies by age 40. " from wikipedia.

Don't ment have selective hearing where women are concerned?

:rofl:

nope...

http://www.mcrcad.org/2010-Sax-hearing.pdf

 

[Thompsonuxb]

This is interesting - In my experience the amps I have owned have needed no warm-up. In fact if left on for a few days the music sounds less difined and seperated. Turn it off fully and allowed to cool for 24hrs say and the amps sound more seperated, crisper. But maybe thats preference. I don't leave my amp on if its not been played. but the difference are only really noticeble during 'critical' listening...... a woman would not notice....lol.... only men do critical listening.

What is critical listening?

Is it when you have to write an essay about it afterwards?

Is it a completely different experience to enjoyable listening?

Do you need to play special 'critical listening' music for it to work properly?

Why can only men do it?

Is it necessary to dress formally?

ahhh , don't be like that.... you know what I mean.

its when you listen beyond just hearing, the production, the work of the muscian, singer, the work of the sound engineers - I always thought it was the whole point of HIFI . to listen ...... it does not affect or impede ones enjoyment of their system or their music in anyway.

Honestly this time of night you looking for trouble....geees.... :roll:

 

[Thompsonuxb]

This is interesting - In my experience the amps I have owned have needed no warm-up. In fact if left on for a few days the music sounds less difined and seperated. Turn it off fully and allowed to cool for 24hrs say and the amps sound more seperated, crisper. But maybe thats preference. I don't leave my amp on if its not been played. but the difference are only really noticeble during 'critical' listening...... a woman would not notice....lol.... only men do critical listening.

women have sharper hearing that men do!

"Women typically experience a lesser degree of hearing loss than men, with a later onset. Men have approximately 5 to 10 dB greater loss in the upper frequencies by age 40. " from wikipedia.

Don't ment have selective hearing where women are concerned?

:rofl:

nope...

http://www.mcrcad.org/2010-Sax-hearing.pdf

not sure if those 'facts' are true, when where the 'test' done to come to such a conclusion. was it recently or during the days of most men working in heavy industry's - when hear protection was seen as soft.... lol.

its late....

 

[Happy_Listner]

Hello,

I been an audiophile for over 20 years now. I have owned about 20 amps and have had long in home audtions of maybe 20 more amps. I can tell you without a doubt that everytime and with everyone of them, from tube to solid state amps, there is a warm up time!

The sound changes mostly for the better and on a very select few amps (3 of them that I can remember) after warm up the sound changed and became too bright for me and not to my liking.

Anyways, for the most part I hear the difference from 5 minutes in to 30 minutes in to an hour in and even sometimes 2 hours in with some amps.

There is also a break in time if the amp was purchased new that usually takes 100-200 hours to break in.

The real character of an amplifier reveals itself after warm up and break in time. This applies to CD payers and Record players as well.

Anyone who tells you differently needs to go and get their hearing checked.

Warm up time is well established in the Audiophile community and seasoned reviewers bring this subject up often when reviewing equipment.

A car engine runs better and smoother when warmed up.

A person also plays better sport after being warmed up.

Tell your wife an oven cooks better food when it is warmed up

Cheers :cheers:

 

[Al ears]

An audiophile who could never find the right amp by the look of that data.

Does it really matter if it needs a warm-up period or not?

If it does improve after a period of time great, if it doesn't it does not necessarily mean you've bought a duffer.

 

[busb]

An audiophile who could never find the right amp by the look of that data.

Does it really matter if it needs a warm-up period or not?

If it does improve after a period of time great, if it doesn't it does not necessarily mean you've bought a duffer.

Precisely! I do tend not to refer to myself as an audiophile - I tend to snigger everytime I hear the term! My personal attitude is that electronics may well take time to reach optimum SQ but unless that difference is "N & D", it doesn't really lessen my enjoyment & I'm not willing to waste electricity on intangible improvements from doing so.

All my stereo is powered from RF remote controlled switches that do take a tiny standby current so get turned on for first use in the day, turned off before bed or if going out. My class D power amp stays cool so its warmup is short to none. My DAC gets warmer than my amp. My plasma TV is set to go into autostandby & any computer, be it MAC, or Windows go into standby after short time. Electricity is now expensive, so I use it more wisely than a few years back & I dislike wastefulness.

 

[busb]

This is interesting - In my experience the amps I have owned have needed no warm-up. In fact if left on for a few days the music sounds less difined and seperated. Turn it off fully and allowed to cool for 24hrs say and the amps sound more seperated, crisper. But maybe thats preference. I don't leave my amp on if its not been played. but the difference are only really noticeble during 'critical' listening...... a woman would not notice....lol.... only men do critical listening.

women have sharper hearing that men do!

"Women typically experience a lesser degree of hearing loss than men, with a later onset. Men have approximately 5 to 10 dB greater loss in the upper frequencies by age 40. " from wikipedia.

Don't ment have selective hearing where women are concerned?

:rofl:

nope...

http://www.mcrcad.org/2010-Sax-hearing.pdf

Sax-hearing?! This paper does rather make a mockery of the idea of "twice as loud" or "half as loud" being fixed as some seem to argue (such as 10dB difference in power). Perceived differences in loudness are not easily quantifiable.