Vinyl vs digital

[nopiano]

I keep thinking about all the cheap, plastic components inside a CD player and I can't find anything really expensive you could use in a CD player.

Case, PSU, panel, remote control, transport, optics, servo, DAC, a few capacitors and resistors and there's the packaging, shipping and then some profit.

You’re obviously a youngster, then! I’d been selling Hifi part-time for over a decade when CD was launched. The early players were die-cast magnesium and made to incredible engineering accuracy at the time. They were precision instruments containing a laser, hitherto a laboratory device. At around £550, they were very costly, more than high end video recorders, for example.

 

[Oxfordian]

You’re obviously a youngster, then! I’d been selling Hifi part-time for over a decade when CD was launched. The early players were die-cast magnesium and made to incredible engineering accuracy at the time. They were precision instruments containing a laser, hitherto a laboratory device. At around £550, they were very costly, more than high end video recorders, for example.

Would it be fair to say that the original CD players were over engineered to ensure that the format got off the ground but once that its success was assured then companies started making the economies they needed to recover R&D and Set Up costs?

This isn't a criticism just an observation as it tends to go this way with most new systems, for example my photography cameras used to be all metal now polycarbonate rules.

 

[nopiano]

Would it be fair to say that the original CD players were over engineered to ensure that the format got off the ground but once that its success was assured then companies started making the economies they needed to recover R&D and Set Up costs?

This isn't a criticism just an observation as it tends to go this way with most new systems, for example my photography cameras used to be all metal now polycarbonate rules.

I think it was simply untried technology, and nobody imagined it might become as popular as it eventually proved. It was as you say, made to high standards to ensure it worked and was safe. Lasers seemed scary back then!

Same with VHS and Betamax video machines, with those offset spinning heads. Highly precise engineering. Later with each part it became possible to mass produce with enough accuracy in advanced plastics, and then costs were lowered in shipping as well as construction. I remember the packaging for early video machines was about three times the size of the recorders themselves!

Then recordable CDs arrived. Early CD ‘pressing’ plants were laboratories full of white-coated technicians. To imagine then that you would one day be able to pop a blank disk in your computer…well it was unimaginable.

 

[podknocker]

You’re obviously a youngster, then! I’d been selling Hifi part-time for over a decade when CD was launched. The early players were die-cast magnesium and made to incredible engineering accuracy at the time. They were precision instruments containing a laser, hitherto a laboratory device. At around £550, they were very costly, more than high end video recorders, for example.

I'm 54 and I do remember the build quality.

One player in particular, the Sony CDP 501 was built like a tank, but Sony still make quality players.

Up to a year ago, I owned a Sony UBP X800 and the build quality was incredible.

I do remember other brands not having the same build quality as Sony and some were shocking.

CD players are far too expensive these days, considering what goes inside them.

Most transports are very cheap, probably £10 each, when bought in bulk.

I would be very suspicious of a CD player costing more then £500 these days.

As I've mentioned before, it's snobbery and wanting to stand out, that makes people pay daft prices.

While people are prepared to do this, companies will rub their hands and continue to charge thousands.

How many people would consider the sound quality of the Sony UBP X800 to be far inferior to something costing 10 times more? I doubt I could tell the difference.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyI2Te7f0pg


Look at that drawer! I watch this and then eject the draw on my Audiolab Omnia, then wish I still had a player from the 80s!

Philips and Sony created CD. They make money out of every CD and player sold and they don't need to make players now, with much less demand for this type of product anyway.

I do wish Sony would release a final 'we invented this and still know what we're doing' CD player.

A truly outstanding statement device, built like a tank, with the best possible components inside and a really top quality sound.

I'd buy one. I might even pay over £500 for the nostalgia value! Possibly.

 

[Gray]

My Sony and Philips CD players have all been plastic, built like toy tanks - but they're all still working.

Could have done with a metal cog in the Philips 604 eject mechanism though....but at least the part was still readily available - and for under a fiver delivered.
Not sure the old one was faulty, but I changed it anyway 😆

 

[podknocker]

I would like to know which make and model of CD player is the most reliable.

Not sure if this data is out there, but it would be reassuring buying a player, knowing the parts and build are going to last.

I owned a Rotel RDC02 and RA02 many moons ago and the CD player was used up to 6 hours a day, for a decade, before it finally made a weird noise and stopped spinning discs.

I loved those devices, in silver with blue LEDs, one denoting HDCD playback. Cracking kit.

 

[12th Monkey]

I would like to know which make and model of CD player is the most reliable. Not sure if this data is out there, but it would be reassuring buying a player, knowing the parts and build are going to last.

Or perhaps are more likely to last, statistically-speaking. Never had a player fail, though an Arcam did start to play up on occasion after many years of heavy usage.

 

[nopiano]

I'm 54 and I do remember the build quality.

One player in particular, the Sony CDP 501 was built like a tank, but Sony still make quality players.

Up to a year ago, I owned a Sony UBP X800 and the build quality was incredible.

I do remember other brands not having the same build quality as Sony and some were shocking.

CD players are far too expensive these days, considering what goes inside them.

Most transports are very cheap, probably £10 each, when bought in bulk.

I would be very suspicious of a CD player costing more then £500 these days.

As I've mentioned before, it's snobbery and wanting to stand out, that makes people pay daft prices.

While people are prepared to do this, companies will rub their hands and continue to charge thousands.

How many people would consider the sound quality of the Sony UBP X800 to be far inferior to something costing 10 times more? I doubt I could tell the difference.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyI2Te7f0pg


Look at that drawer! I watch this and then eject the draw on my Audiolab Omnia, then wish I still had a player from the 80s!

Philips and Sony created CD. They make money out of every CD and player sold and they don't need to make players now, with much less demand for this type of product anyway.

I do wish Sony would release a final 'we invented this and still know what we're doing' CD player.

A truly outstanding statement device, built like a tank, with the best possible components inside and a really top quality sound.

I'd buy one. I might even pay over £500 for the nostalgia value! Possibly.

Yes, they were reassuringly solid back then. My Marantz is heavy, but much of it is from the slab of metal they put in the chassis.

The Tascam is pretty light, as you’d expect for under £250, but it gives the impression it could play 20 CDs a day for 20 years, or more likely do service in a bar or studio. The Tascam transport is used in brands retailing at £2-3,000.

Both are visible here…

https://imgur.com/4mI7Bza

View: https://imgur.com/4mI7Bza

 

[podknocker]

I think the BBC use Tascam and TEAC CD players. They used to sound great, even on radio 2 over FM.

 

[Deleted member 201267]

I'm 54 and I do remember the build quality.

One player in particular, the Sony CDP 501 was built like a tank, but Sony still make quality players.

Up to a year ago, I owned a Sony UBP X800 and the build quality was incredible.

I do remember other brands not having the same build quality as Sony and some were shocking.

CD players are far too expensive these days, considering what goes inside them.

Most transports are very cheap, probably £10 each, when bought in bulk.

I would be very suspicious of a CD player costing more then £500 these days.

As I've mentioned before, it's snobbery and wanting to stand out, that makes people pay daft prices.

While people are prepared to do this, companies will rub their hands and continue to charge thousands.

How many people would consider the sound quality of the Sony UBP X800 to be far inferior to something costing 10 times more? I doubt I could tell the difference.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyI2Te7f0pg


Look at that drawer! I watch this and then eject the draw on my Audiolab Omnia, then wish I still had a player from the 80s!

Philips and Sony created CD. They make money out of every CD and player sold and they don't need to make players now, with much less demand for this type of product anyway.

I do wish Sony would release a final 'we invented this and still know what we're doing' CD player.

A truly outstanding statement device, built like a tank, with the best possible components inside and a really top quality sound.

I'd buy one. I might even pay over £500 for the nostalgia value! Possibly.

I wish Sony would make a (final ?) statement CD player too. Think how much it would cost though...

 

[podknocker]

Starting a production run again, after all these years, would be very expensive.

The tooling costs and top end components would be pricey.

There's a large number of people out there who still support and respect Sony.

A run of 100,000 players would get snapped up in no time.

Sony CDP1000ESD in silver? Ooh yes please.

It would need to wipe the floor with all the competition though.

Something we'd all remember and aspire to owning, over the years.

It's Playstations and mobile phones now, with the OLED TVs obviously.

The Sony monitors were excellent, but they probably never made enough from this sector.

I remember being in a Comet shop, years ago and they had 20 or more Sony midi systems.

The choice was incredible.

 

[WayneKerr]

I wish Sony would make a (final ?) statement a CD player too. Think how much it would cost though...

You only need to look at a current statement Technics DD turntable to see how much a new Sony CD player would cost, possibly £4K upwards.

 

[daveh75]

I see no point in a CD player (statement or otherwise) these days.

The medium has none of the nostalgia or tactility etc, some attribute to vinyl IMO, jewel cases are and always were absolute tat for example and a £20 external drive or cheap DVD/BD player is perfectly capable of extracting the data reliably if you really feel the need to still spin discs.

When I moved (downsized) in December I donated my Arcam Alpha 7 CDP and several thousand CDs to charity, neither of which had seen the light of day probably in the best part of two decades having been previously ripped, then stored on my NAS for local streaming.

 

[daveh75]

Could have done with a metal cog in the Philips 604 eject mechanism though....but at least the part was still readily available - and for under a fiver delivered.
Not sure the old one was faulty, but I changed it anyway 😆
View attachment 5222

But the benefit of it being plastic, is that if it wasn't readily available a replacement could be easily 3D printed

 

[podknocker]

I see no point in a CD player (statement or otherwise) these days.

The medium has none of the nostalgia or tactility etc, some attribute to vinyl IMO, jewel cases are and always were absolute tat for example and a £20 external drive or cheap DVD/BD player is perfectly capable of extracting the data reliably if you really feel the need to still spin discs.

When I moved (downsized) in December I donated my Arcam Alpha 7 CDP and several thousand CDs to charity, neither of which had seen the light of day probably in the best part of two decades having been previously ripped, then stored on my NAS for local streaming.

Really good CD players do sound good and seem to get the most out of the format.

I have a CD player in my Omnia, but it's rarely used.

Also, most of the music I listen to is streamed and not available on CD anyway.

I'm going to rip all my CDs to FLAC through the winter and make sure I keep at least 2 copies, because I'm not doing it again.

I will probably give my CDs away, as no shop will pay even a quid for one these days.

With the Eversolo streamer having an M.2 SSD slot, it's very tempting.

I've always loved the CD format and used it since 1986 but I wouldn't go back now.

Hi res streaming pre amp DACs are the future. Sound quality and convenience.

I rant about the fact we have a vinyl revival and some people readily admit this format's shortcomings and surface noise etc.

They still want to use this format and watch their record collection grow. I don't understand it.

Having a small, convenient box, streaming high quality sound, with no clicks and pops and no hard work seems like heaven to me.

'double click, Bach, double click, TOOL, double click, The Bangles' etc.

 

[WayneKerr]

CD players are very different beasts than they were maybe 10 years ago. They're more of a DAC transport kinda thing now having multiple inputs/outputs in addition to traditional RCA.

 

[podknocker]

My Philips CD473 had digital out in 1988 although only coaxial.

 

[WayneKerr]

My Philips CD473 had digital out in 1988 although only coaxial.

Maybe so, but they now tend to come with USB-A+B+coaxial+optical inputs; coaxial+optical+RCA outputs.

 

[podknocker]

There will be a final flourish of CD players in the next 5 years. It's then going to be streamers and of course, vinyl forever!

SACD/DSD seems to have faded away and only has a small hardcore following, mainly in the classical music community.

I still look at SACDs online and I wish this had become as popular as CD.

I also still take an interest in other formats and codecs etc.

Does anyone know what's happened to DXD and could this professional, studio format ever break through into the streaming sector?

There's not much online about this and I've no idea if any bespoke chips are involved.

Digital eXtreme Definition - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[WayneKerr]

There will be a final flourish of CD players in the next 5 years. It's then going to be streamers and of course, vinyl forever!

Already got my TT + CDP and hoping they will last me out till I'm pushing up daisies

 

[WayneKerr]

Pod, don't know what your fascination is with all this hi-res malarkey. CD quality easily covers the range of human hearing, besides you're 54 so well on the way to impaired/shagg*d hearing anyway

 

[daveh75]

Pod, don't know what your fascination is with all this hi-res malarkey. CD quality easily covers the range of human hearing, besides you're 54 so well on the way to impaired/shagg*d hearing anyway

Indeed, especially when only the exceptional few can discern any difference between lossy and lossless formats, let alone hi-res.

Hi-res is utterly pointless (as a playback medium)

 

[podknocker]

Pod, don't know what your fascination is with all this hi-res malarkey. CD quality easily covers the range of human hearing, besides you're 54 so well on the way to impaired/shagg*d hearing anyway

Funny you should say that, but I ran a test a while back and I can still hear around 15Khz

I've done very little clubbing in my time and avoided building sites and other loud activities!

I do remember my dad taking me into Rumbelows, when I was very young and I was really annoyed by all the CRT TV capacitors screaming at me.

I can't hear caps now, but I'm sure kids have a very tough time with all this tech and being immersed in a constant sea of whistling etc.

 

[Revolutions]

It seems that lossless music is chasing unobtamium: surpassing not only the frequency range of humans and stereo speakers, but also studio microphones.

 

[Gray]

....a replacement could be easily 3D printed

I reckon you've given the reason why I found so many 3rd parties selling what is likely to be a much in demand part.