Vinyl vs digital

[Gray]

I'm currently listening to the TOOL album, Lateralus and I often play this and many other albums, in their entirety. The nice thing about streaming on Spotify, is that I can open up the app on this PC and with the Spotify Connect feature built into my Audiolab Omnia, it's just a double click away from repeating a track, or choosing one of another 80 million tracks. Try doing that with vinyl. The music then goes from my router, to my laptop sat on top of my Omnia (fits perfectly) and then to my Omnia via bluetooth. I don't need to mess about with record sleeves and lumps of vinyl, cleaning, cartridges, placing the needle on the record, getting up after 30 mins to turn the damn thing over. Nonsense from the past.

80 million tracks 😳
Better get playing Pod 👍

Not sure how I've drawn a blank when searching on Spotify - yet no search of mine has (so far) been too obscure for YouTube.

 

[Oxfordian]

I'm currently listening to the TOOL album, Lateralus and I often play this and many other albums, in their entirety. The nice thing about streaming on Spotify, is that I can open up the app on this PC and with the Spotify Connect feature built into my Audiolab Omnia, it's just a double click away from repeating a track, or choosing one of another 80 million tracks. Try doing that with vinyl. The music then goes from my router, to my laptop sat on top of my Omnia (fits perfectly) and then to my Omnia via bluetooth. I don't need to mess about with record sleeves and lumps of vinyl, cleaning, cartridges, placing the needle on the record, getting up after 30 mins to turn the damn thing over. Nonsense from the past.

It is good this modern way of listening to music, but I just cannot warm to it, I love that vinyl interaction, those big sleeves with artwork / photographs to admire, the notes, lyrics and production stuff to read and absorb, I can put up with the odd click and pop, the getting up to change sides comes with the format, all of this is just part of the enjoyment that I get from listening to my vinyl.

I also enjoy listening to CD's, they sound just fine on my little set up and I am happy adding to the collection.

Apple Music was my introduction into streaming and whilst I enjoyed having all that music at my finger tips I just didn't gel with the format, stopped using it and ultimately closed my account.

My kids keep pushing me to revisit, I've looked again but in reality all I probably want is to stream my CD collection, if I want to listen to music other than from my collection I can put the radio on.

There is no doubt in my mind that vinyl is an archaic format, it comes from days past and probably shouldn't be around today, but it is and I like it.

My kids stream their music although my eldest has bought some vinyl for collecting purposes (don't ask), will I stream my music at some point in the future, possibly, but for now I'm going to keep that vinyl spinning and enjoy it.

 

[podknocker]

I do understand why many people buy and enjoy vinyl. As you mentioned, the artwork, sleeve notes, the 'ritual' of placing the record onto the turntable and getting the needle and settings spot on.

The tactility of vinyl is a large part of the pleasure for many and if it's a tangible, cleanable and lifestyle thing people want to own, then fine.

I prefer the ease of use with the streaming formats and the choice of music available. All the music on Spotify could be stored on a very few large capacity hard drives, in a PC and you could never achieve this with vinyl. You'd need acres of cupboards. It's not a practical format.

This preference for vinyl is none of my business, but what does get my goat, is when the vinyl fanatics start insisting this old format sounds better than the same master tape, transferred onto a new format, such as CD, or a streaming file (when the master has been carefully transferred, as I mentioned earlier).

CD and newer formats do sound better and there is an almost militant opposition to CD and modern things, from many people, which I can't understand. It's almost a rebellion against new stuff, for the sake of it.

We had something similar recently with cassettes. The mind boggles, although tapes were/are easier to use and move around. I remember owning a cassette deck and it sounded better than the same albums on vinyl.

It's horses for courses, but there is no chance in hell, vinyl will give you the resolution, pitch stability and the low noise floor, of a CD.

 

[Revolutions]

I remember day 1 of Spotify back in 2008 or so.

“I can search for anything?”

Literally couldn’t think of what to search for. Took years before they let you save albums. I’ve still got a folder of old playlists that you had to create to save an album.

Streaming is brilliant. Phone, headphones & Spotify is a large part of every day of my life. And the UI is much better than the list of words on the iPod/apple music menus from a few years back.

When it comes to hifi though, I find streaming odd. When I turn my amp on, I also want to choose a cd or record & set it up on the appropriate playback device. I’m 41, was there as a heavy user at the birth of mp3s, and I still can’t let go of physical music.

 

[JDL]

Usually if the volume is higher on a turntable it's down to the MVs. Some cartridges are high while others are low. Normally my CDP has higher volume as the ClearAudio is quite low MVs.

That's another great feature of my amp: change source and no matter how high the volume control is, once you click the selector it goes back to a factory setting on the volume control.

Personally I prefer the realism of vinyl - it sounds au naturel.

CD can sound "au natural" with the correct player?

 

[plastic penguin]

CD can sound "au natural" with the correct player?

Indeed. But a digital recording won't sound as natural as a vinyl recording. They are two different methods of producing a playback sound. Both have their strengths and weaknesses.

 

[plastic penguin]

I do understand why many people buy and enjoy vinyl. As you mentioned, the artwork, sleeve notes, the 'ritual' of placing the record onto the turntable and getting the needle and settings spot on.

The tactility of vinyl is a large part of the pleasure for many and if it's a tangible, cleanable and lifestyle thing people want to own, then fine.

I prefer the ease of use with the streaming formats and the choice of music available. All the music on Spotify could be stored on a very few large capacity hard drives, in a PC and you could never achieve this with vinyl. You'd need acres of cupboards. It's not a practical format.

This preference for vinyl is none of my business, but what does get my goat, is when the vinyl fanatics start insisting this old format sounds better than the same master tape, transferred onto a new format, such as CD, or a streaming file (when the master has been carefully transferred, as I mentioned earlier).

CD and newer formats do sound better and there is an almost militant opposition to CD and modern things, from many people, which I can't understand. It's almost a rebellion against new stuff, for the sake of it.

We had something similar recently with cassettes. The mind boggles, although tapes were/are easier to use and move around. I remember owning a cassette deck and it sounded better than the same albums on vinyl.

It's horses for courses, but there is no chance in hell, vinyl will give you the resolution, pitch stability and the low noise floor, of a CD.

Vinyl is all the above things you mention, but with me vinyl has been, along with radio, the constant source, from my parents radiogram to my first small stereo to now.

I didn't buy my first CD player until the mid 90s and even then vinyl was still my preferred method of playback.

 

[JDL]

Indeed. But a digital recording won't sound as natural as a vinyl recording. They are two different methods of producing a playback sound. Both have their strengths and weaknesses.

I read a post by a guy who was designing a home LP pressing machine. I was stunned by the technology that goes into the production of vinyl records. It's absolutely amazing what has been achieved in that medium of music reproduction.

 

[WayneKerr]

I read a post by a guy who was designing a home LP pressing machine. I was stunned by the technology that goes into the production of vinyl records. It's absolutely amazing what has been achieved in that medium of music reproduction.

Agreed. Both vinyl and CD inventions from an engineering perspective are pure genius.

 

[abacus]

Indeed. But a digital recording won't sound as natural as a vinyl recording. They are two different methods of producing a playback sound. Both have their strengths and weaknesses.

CD (If mastered correctly) will give a much more natural sound than vinyl as its dynamic range is greater and the distortion & noise is lower.
As vinyl has many limitations the master has to be adapted to suit the limitations of the vinyl, however if you used the vinyl master for the CD, then the CD would sound 100% identical to the vinyl. (But nobody is going to do this as it would be a waste of CDs capabilities)

Bill

 

[Deleted member 201267]

CD (If mastered correctly) will give a much more natural sound than vinyl as its dynamic range is greater and the distortion & noise is lower.
As vinyl has many limitations the master has to be adapted to suit the limitations of the vinyl, however if you used the vinyl master for the CD, then the CD would sound 100% identical to the vinyl. (But nobody is going to do this as it would be a waste of CDs capabilities)

Bill

Can you suggest a great CD player Bill ?

 

[abacus]

Can you suggest a great CD player bill ?

Choose the best you can afford after listening to a few, "however" you may be better off with a simple Blu-ray player and external DAC, as this and its associated electrical components is the most important part of any player.
If your amp has an inbuilt DAC then just buying a simple Blu-ray player and using its digital out may be all that you need.

Bill

 

[podknocker]

Any CD player will sound great if attention is paid to: Power supply, optics, servo, transport, DAC, error correction, jitter, tracking etc. CD players do sound very different.

When I first played a CD on my Denon DVD2900 (£500) years ago, I was amazed by the precision. It's a shame it stopped reading CDs, just after the warranty had expired. It still managed to read SACDs, DVDs and oddly, HDCD CDs etc. Won't but Denon again, but then I probably won't need to buy a CD player again.

The best disc player I had was the Sony UBP X800 and it played ANY disc I could find and the sound and picture quality were incredible. Totally silent in operation and built like a tank. Bargain at £249

 

[nopiano]

you may be better off with a simple Blu-ray player and external DAC, as this and its associated electrical components is the most important part of any player.

I would caution that some BluRay players are quite noisy mechanically, especially when reading discs, and others have fans. Both can be a distraction in a quiet room.

 

[podknocker]

I would caution that some BluRay players are quite noisy mechanically, especially when reading discs, and others have fans. Both can be a distraction in a quiet room.

The best disc player I had was the Sony UBP X800 and it played ANY disc I could find and the sound and picture quality were incredible. Totally silent in operation and built like a tank. Bargain at £249

 

[Symples]

This is not a vinyl is better than digital or digital is better than vinyl.

I play both.
Nine times out of ten. I am listening to digital files. Whether from Qobuz, Tidal , Spotify. Or even YouTube.

However... when I really want to enjoy my music. That is when I pop out my LPs.

Sure, it is much more involved.
I have to locate the LP, then clean it and make sure the stylus is clean. All before playing....
Then I am up again twenty minutes later to turn it over.

However my LPs are thirty to 40 plus year old.
They hold great memories. Remembering where I was when I bought them.

Sure they are noisy and do not have the dynamic range of CDs or digital files but for me. They provide a greater musical enjoyment.

I must admit to liking the convenience of digital files. Especially when a certain tune pops in my head.

Mind you, I do not carry my turntable on the public transport when I'm out. So that's a plus for digital files 😀


How about we concentrate on the positives rather than the negatives.

 

[Friesiansam]

but for me. They provide a greater musical enjoyment.

That's what matters.

 

[plastic penguin]

CD (If mastered correctly) will give a much more natural sound than vinyl as its dynamic range is greater and the distortion & noise is lower.
As vinyl has many limitations the master has to be adapted to suit the limitations of the vinyl, however if you used the vinyl master for the CD, then the CD would sound 100% identical to the vinyl. (But nobody is going to do this as it would be a waste of CDs capabilities)

Bill

That's the issue. I've purchased remastered CDs and they are over compressed, which sounds dreadful. As a consistent format I much prefer vinyl.

 

[nopiano]

This is not a vinyl is better than digital or digital is better than vinyl.

I play both.
Nine times out of ten. I am listening to digital files. Whether from Qobuz, Tidal , Spotify. Or even YouTube.

However... when I really want to enjoy my music. That is when I pop out my LPs.

Sure, it is much more involved.
I have to locate the LP, then clean it and make sure the stylus is clean. All before playing....
Then I am up again twenty minutes later to turn it over.

However my LPs are thirty to 40 plus year old.
They hold great memories. Remembering where I was when I bought them.

Sure they are noisy and do not have the dynamic range of CDs or digital files but for me. They provide a greater musical enjoyment.

I must admit to liking the convenience of digital files. Especially when a certain tune pops in my head.

Mind you, I do not carry my turntable on the public transport when I'm out. So that's a plus for digital files 😀


How about we concentrate on the positives rather than the negatives.

I had to re-read your opening post, and I agree it’s really streaming -v- vinyl. Digital is a method of recording (versus analogue), but vinyl, or more accurately records or LPs, is a physical carrier.

Streaming is therefore to my mind being compared to vinyl, as the carrier. I guess we don’t really have directly comparable terms.

 

[JDL]

Any CD player will sound great if attention is paid to: Power supply, optics, servo, transport, DAC, error correction, jitter, tracking etc. CD players do sound very different.

When I first played a CD on my Denon DVD2900 (£500) years ago, I was amazed by the precision. It's a shame it stopped reading CDs, just after the warranty had expired. It still managed to read SACDs, DVDs and oddly, HDCD CDs etc. Won't but Denon again, but then I probably won't need to buy a CD player again.

The best disc player I had was the Sony UBP X800 and it played ANY disc I could find and the sound and picture quality were incredible. Totally silent in operation and built like a tank. Bargain at £249

The CD player I got hold of is a Meridian 508.20. Built like a tank, totally silent in operation and to my ears a beautifully warm, detailed yet punchy and fast presentation.
Russ "The Tech Guy" at Cambridge, will recap it and rebuild it with new lasers and full service for £550.

 

[bigfish786]

The CD player I got hold of is a Meridian 508.20. Built like a tank, totally silent in operation and to my ears a beautifully warm, detailed yet punchy and fast presentation.
Russ "The Tech Guy" at Cambridge, will recap it and rebuild it with new lasers and full service for £550.

Had one in my system a few months back. Although a little temperamental it sounded wonderful. Serviced and rebuilt it should be a keeper. 👍

 

[Al ears]

The best disc player I had was the Sony UBP X800 and it played ANY disc I could find and the sound and picture quality were incredible. Totally silent in operation and built like a tank. Bargain at £249

Agreed, I still use mine

 

[JDL]

Had one in my system a few months back. Although a little temperamental it sounded wonderful. Serviced and rebuilt it should be a keeper. 👍

That's a shame it was playing up, excuse the pun. Mine always reads discs and never misses a beat.
I've also got a 206. Luckily enough it's in really good condition and I don't reckon it has been used much.
That's as reliable as the 508, again never misses a beat. It's warmer sounding and has more bass than the 508 but doesn't match it in terms off detail, soundstage, imaging. I think the 508 is a great partner for the Marantz Model 30 Amplifier that I got about 3 weeks ago.
About a week ago I picked up a pair of B&W 805 Matrix stand mount speakers. Not everyone's cup of tea I'm sure, but the detail, the isolation of one sound from another, and the lack of unwanted resonances coming from these speakers and the flatness of their response is very impressive in my opinion. I'm now absolutely satisfied with my system and have finished with that feeling that I need to find anything better or different. It feels like a priveledge to own such a system. One other thing I did was get hold of a B&W PV1 Subwoofer. That'll arrive in the week. I know exactly how I need to hook it up and I do like decent bass when listening to some music. Once I've set this up right, I think it's going to be brilliant.

 

[Gray]

How about we concentrate on the positives rather than the negatives.

Well you can't argue with the fact that analogue has the ultimate 'bit rate'.
Maybe it's that that leads to preferences for vinyl sound - where it's been analogue from mic to vinyl.

As has been said, one of the 'obvious' technical limitations of vinyl is the dynamic range.
But I'd challenge anyone to be disappointed by the dynamic performance of the best of my 12" 45rpm vinyl, when compared with a CD player (yes, even from the same master).

In fact, I'd guarantee they'd be hard pushed to blindly tell which they were hearing.

 

[bigfish786]

I’ve had a full weekend of listening to both records and CDs, in my system I find it hard to determine which I have on at any one time. Both sound great to me.