Vinyl...bit deflated.

[MajorFubar]

I don't think vinyl will ever be anything but an occasional fancy for me any more. With the rest of the family out I've just played a couple of records for the first time this year (Sky 1 and Greatest Hits of the Eagles). I was really hoping to enjoy this session. Sadly vinyl's inherrent deficiencies and baggage (pops, clicks, vinyl roar, inner groove distortion) is something I find spoils my enjoyment too much these days.
Neither pressings are what you would call very noisy, but they do have the odd crack, pop and noise conducive to their age and state of wear, and suddenly I find that horribly distracting, to the point where I just want to turn it off and go back to digital. Same with vinyl-roar during the quiet passages, which yes I know varies a lot from deck to deck and cart to cart. Sill it never completely goes away does it, and it's always there to muddy your blacks during quiet songs (Sky, "Carillon"; Eagles, "Desperado'). Shame really because I do like the tactility and 'event' of putting on a record. If only what came out my speakers sounded as clean as digital. It's hard to think that clicks, pops, scratches, vinyl roar, inner-groove distortion and off-centre pressings were to an extent things you became deaf to or ignored when vinyl was the primary source. Now suddenly the vagaries and compromises of vinyl seem inexcusable weaknesses from the stone age. It's like being in my office during the day where you kind of get used to the sound of 20 PCs and 5 printers switched on with their fans humming away; your subconciousness becomes attuned to not finding it distracting. Then when everything’s powered off at home time it's like that deathly silence in a horror movie one second before the victim gets attacked. I did enjoy it though, much more than I did not. Maybe I'll listen to another couple of records in another year's time.

 

[MajorFubar]

That did have more paragraphs in it. What an absolute substandard heap of god forsaken shite this forum continues to be.

 

[Covenanter]

Is it that good?

Chris

 

[Vladimir]

You need to relax Major. Don't listen to it critically, just laidback.

 

[drummerman]

Well, you never completely get rid of the pops.

Still, decent vinyl, on a decent turntable, with a decent system can do things (for me) digital rarely is capable of.

What system do you use MajorFubar?

Sorry I lost track a little who has what.

I am of course not trying to lecture you. If you can't put up with certain deficiencies vinyl inherently has then there is no point for you to carry on using it.

An unfortunate fact of using that media is that it does cost a bit of money to get it right.

 

[MajorFubar]

Is it that good?

Chris

Do you know what Chris...I think it is. I think what I've been able to do this afternooon is scratch the itch I've had for a long while to return to LPs. And in return I've had a reality check. Before this afternooon I had a rose-tinted vision of how much I was going to enjoy getting back into records, I'd somehow forgotten the harsh realities and the compromises unavoidably associated with the medium. Don't tell the Mrs but I even had stupid thoughts about upgrading the turntable with a new cartridge maybe (I've had such thoughts before and posted here for ideas). I feel I've now fully got such ridiculous ideas out my system.

Don't get me wrong if you like records and vinyl, then go for it. I'm 100% with you all the way. But this afternoon has been a virtual smack across the face with a wet fish for me. Which probably is just what I needed.

 

[Al ears]

That did have more paragraphs in it. What an absolute substandard heap of god forsaken shite this forum continues to be.

Perhaps they have gone to the 'Turntable & vinyl' sub-forum where they belong...

 

[MajorFubar]

You need to relax Major. Don't listen to it critically, just laidback.

That's the problem...I could once. But having got used to digital sources far more than I realised, I don't think there's ever any going back for me now. I'd rather listen to a damn good tape.

 

[MajorFubar]

What system do you use MajorFubar?

Ageing TD160 that I love to bits that I'll get shot of when it's pryed from my cold dead fingers, currently hosting an Ortofon MC3

 

[MajorFubar]

That did have more paragraphs in it. What an absolute substandard heap of god forsaken shite this forum continues to be.

Perhaps they have gone to the 'Turntable & vinyl' sub-forum where they belong...

Whoops sorry...so long since I started a post there I forgot.

 

[Vladimir]

You need to relax Major. Don't listen to it critically, just laidback.

That's the problem...I could once. But having got used to digital sources far more than I realised, I don't think there's ever any going back for me now. I'd rather listen to a damn good tape.

You need some booze, a bald guy and new old records. This.

 

[Al ears]

It mayt

be only of little consolation to you major but I have found several of your concerns (off centre / crackles and pops etc) have disappeared on all of the new vinyl that I have recently purchased. This, I understand, is not going to help with the older vinyl in a collection but then I, when I upgraded, was rather ruthless in what was staying and what was going from my vinyl collection.

One of the best upgrades I found was simply getting them professionally cleaned in a little establishment I have recently found in Abergavenny. This made a dramatic improvemment to some of my older 'keepers'. I'd urge anybody to try this route first before bailing-out completely.

 

[drummerman]

What system do you use MajorFubar?

Ageing TD160 that I love to bits that I'll get shot of when it's pryed from my cold dead fingers, currently hosting an Ortofon MC3

Please elaborate a little. Your 160 is obviously capable if in good condition. What arm do you use?

What phono amplifier?

Whilst many swear by MC cartridges for best sound, they often have elevated treble which can exagerate noise etc. . A good MM can eleviate some of that if chosen wisely. Whilst a gyger or fine line tip is great to dig out detail, they are also responsible for unearthing more undesirable traits by virtue of digging in deeper into grooves.

I am not familiar with your Ortofon but personally am a fan of the brand. They, to me, strike a good balance between the panoramic but diffuse view of some and the warm, full sound which may lack some resolution of others.

Then there is correct set-up. Some Cartridges, especially the ones with very fine, expensive tips can be very finnicky to set up.

If all that sounds like to much to bother then by any means stop using it. Perhaps have a little break and dig your TT out in two or three years and try again but dont sell imho.

 

[Al ears]

That did have more paragraphs in it. What an absolute substandard heap of god forsaken shite this forum continues to be.

Perhaps they have gone to the 'Turntable & vinyl' sub-forum where they belong...

Whoops sorry...so long since I started a post there I forgot.

Excuse my joshing. Very good to see the post majorfubar I can understand your frustration and this, indeed, probably hits home to the newbies who are just starting up with vinyl only to find it 'ain't all glamorous'.

 

[MajorFubar]

One of the best upgrades I found was simply getting them professionally cleaned in a little establishment I have recently found in Abergavenny. This made a dramatic improvemment to some of my older 'keepers'. I'd urge anybody to try this route first before bailing-out completely.

True enough and I don't think I'll ever bail out completely. When the TT was disconnected for several months I was annoyd that I couldn't just put a record on when I wanted. I loved it being there. I think I've just realised that I've grown out of it, yet I don't mean that in way to offend those who prefer records to digital. You know when you were a kid and you had a wind up clock in your bedroom and you never thought anything of the ticking, but these days after years of having a digital bedside clock the ticking would drive you nuts like some kind of Chinese torture? I think that's me and records. But until today I don't think I knew it.

 

[Al ears]

What system do you use MajorFubar?

Ageing TD160 that I love to bits that I'll get shot of when it's pryed from my cold dead fingers, currently hosting an Ortofon MC3

Please elaborate a little. Your 160 is obviously capable if in good condition. What arm do you use?

What phono amplifier?

Whilst many swear by MC cartridges for best sound, they often have elevated treble which can exagerate noise etc. . A good MM can eleviate some of that if chosen wisely. Whilst a gyger or fine line tip is great to dig out detail, they are also responsible for unearthing more undesirable traits by virtue of digging in deeper into grooves.

I am not familiar with your Ortofon but personally am a fan of the brand. They, to me, strike a good balance between the panoramic but diffuse view of some and the warm, full sound which may lack some resolution of others.

Then there is correct set-up. Some Cartridges, especially the ones with very fine, expensive tips can be very finnicky to set up.

If all that sounds like to much to bother then by any means stop using it. Perhaps have a little break and dig your TT out in two or three years and try again but dont sell imho.

Funny you should mention that. A mate decided to downgrade cartridge-wise a while back (cash strapped and cantilever broke) and went from a reasonable Moving Coil to a cheaper Moving Magnet (Shure m-97xe) and it was quite interesting to see that some of his vinyl suddenly became 'playable'.

 

[MajorFubar]

What system do you use MajorFubar?

Ageing TD160 that I love to bits that I'll get shot of when it's pryed from my cold dead fingers, currently hosting an Ortofon MC3

Please elaborate a little. Your 160 is obviously capable if in good condition. What arm do you use?

What phono amplifier?

Whilst many swear by MC cartridges for best sound, they often have elevated treble which can exagerate noise etc. . A good MM can eleviate some of that if chosen wisely. Whilst a gyger or fine line tip is great to dig out detail, they are also responsible for unearthing more undesirable traits by virtue of digging in deeper into grooves.

I am not familiar with your Ortofon but personally am a fan of the brand. They, to me, strike a good balance between the panoramic but diffuse view of some and the warm, full sound which may lack some resolution of others.

Then there is correct set-up. Some Cartridges, especially the ones with very fine, expensive tips can be very finnicky to set up.

If all that sounds like to much to bother then by any means stop using it. Perhaps have a little break and dig your TT out in two or three years and try again but dont sell imho.

Standard arm (TP16?) Do you know what I'm probably doing it a disservice, it really sounds wonderful and it's set up really well. And don't worry it's going nowhere. Been in the family for over 40 years and that's where it will stay.

 

[MajorFubar]

It must be an age-thing I guess, but you are right. My wifes rather noisy alarm clock was banished to the spare bedroom some years ago as it suddenly started to drive me loopy when attempting to drop off, and there was me thinking my hearing was supposed to decline. Perhaps it's all frequency related, who knows?

Maybe it's a good idea for a new thread... 'Things I put I with that now drive me bonkers'

:-D

 

[drummerman]

What system do you use MajorFubar?

Ageing TD160 that I love to bits that I'll get shot of when it's pryed from my cold dead fingers, currently hosting an Ortofon MC3

Please elaborate a little. Your 160 is obviously capable if in good condition. What arm do you use?

What phono amplifier?

Whilst many swear by MC cartridges for best sound, they often have elevated treble which can exagerate noise etc. . A good MM can eleviate some of that if chosen wisely. Whilst a gyger or fine line tip is great to dig out detail, they are also responsible for unearthing more undesirable traits by virtue of digging in deeper into grooves.

I am not familiar with your Ortofon but personally am a fan of the brand. They, to me, strike a good balance between the panoramic but diffuse view of some and the warm, full sound which may lack some resolution of others.

Then there is correct set-up. Some Cartridges, especially the ones with very fine, expensive tips can be very finnicky to set up.

If all that sounds like to much to bother then by any means stop using it. Perhaps have a little break and dig your TT out in two or three years and try again but dont sell imho.

Funny you should mention that. A mate decided to downgrade cartridge-wise a while back (cash strapped and cantilever broke) and went from a reasonable Moving Coil to a cheaper Moving Magnet (Shure m-97xe) and it was quite interesting to see that some of his vinyl suddenly became 'playable'.

Horses for courses and preferences.

There are differences how an MC and MM are constructed, the smaller coil and fewer windings in MC's being responsible for the usually low output. - This in itself makes a good quality MC amplifier with low noise very important. In some ways it taxes the quality of the phono amplifier more. Some noise could be generated by the phono amp itself.

I personally don't think an MC is necessary to get high quality vinyl replay. Some reviewers agree but many audiophiles, much of the press and dealers seem to think an MC is pre-requisite.

Tip mass and cantilever material are, of what I have read, rather more important than topology. Then there is matching compliance to arm etc.

It's a jungle but I love it more for it

 

[Al ears]

One of the best upgrades I found was simply getting them professionally cleaned in a little establishment I have recently found in Abergavenny. This made a dramatic improvemment to some of my older 'keepers'. I'd urge anybody to try this route first before bailing-out completely.

True enough and I don't think I'll ever bail out completely. When the TT was disconnected for several months I was annoyd that I couldn't just put a record on when I wanted. I loved it being there. I think I've just realised that I've grown out of it, yet I don't mean that in way to offend those who prefer records to digital. You know when you were a kid and you had a wind up clock in your bedroom and you never thought anything of the ticking, but these days after years of having a digital bedside clock the ticking would drive you nuts like some kind of Chinese torture? I think that's me and records. But until today I don't think I knew it.

It must be an age-thing I guess, but you are right. My wifes rather noisy alarm clock was banished to the spare bedroom some years ago as it suddenly started to drive me loopy when attempting to drop off, and there was me thinking my hearing was supposed to decline. Perhaps it's all frequency related, who knows?

Maybe it's a good idea for a new thread... 'Things I put up with that now drive me bonkers'

 

[Frank Harvey]

As has already been mentioned, modern vinyl seems to be far quieter, but having said that, I have vinyl from the 80s that is still as clean as the day I bought it (and some of that was second hand) and exhibit no background noise. Even sub £500 decks nowadays are pretty much silent as far as background noise is concerned. As long as they're set up properly, and care is taken regarding positioning, there's no reason not to enjoy listening to records.

 

[radiorog]

You need to relax Major. Don't listen to it critically, just laidback.

That's the problem...I could once. But having got used to digital sources far more than I realised, I don't think there's ever any going back for me now. I'd rather listen to a damn good tape.

You need some booze, a bald guy and new old records. This.

(Warning - slightly off topic to op here) I liked this vid. His system sounded good and I'm sure in person its way better than a you tube clip. It made me think of my Dad's old HiFi that followed us around the various houses of my childhood and teenage years. I remembered it was an aiwa but wasn't expecting to be able to find it within 20 seconds on YouTube, so here it is.. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uaSM-_ZwyZA

I remember playing vinyl, and recording to cassette on it, and remember it sounded brilliant. Having watched these two vids and then turning on my HiFi setup and listening to the radio, I was immediately struck/blown away how good my system sounds, better than I remember from just two hours ago. This made me think, for me getting a decent system has always been about trying to find something as good as my father had, and somewhere near to my grandfathers B&O system. (I'm pretty sure my system will be as good and better in some aspects from the b&o). Upgraditis effects most of us, but watching vids like that can make us realise/remember that it's about finding a system that is good enough to enjoy the music we listen to, it doesn't have to be the best in the world, there are lots of good systems/components to chose from these days, that better those from 30 years ago, in approximately the same price brackets. Once found, its game on, and bring on the music.

 

[lindsayt]

Most compilation albums, including Greatest Hits sound relatively poor on vinyl. The Eagles are no exception to this.

I have some Sky albums that sound fine. No particulalry noticeable clicks, pops, vinyl roar on my system. Don't listen to them much as I prefer vocal tracks to instrumentals.

 

[Jota180]

After years of noise free digital I'd seriously take bad to vinyl. I'm like the person who mentioned the ticking clock. No ticking clocks in my house! When I was young, my brothers watch would be chucked out of the bedroom we shared because of it's ticking. I'm terrible for locking onto stuff that shouldn't be there so pops and clicks would be in my mind waiting on the next one.

Dunno if anyone's noticed but at some cinema's the quality of the film is shocking. An Odean near me had a new film a few years back and the noise on the screen was that bad I couldn't not see it. Ended up walking out.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Most Odeons use digital projectors now - very clean looking, clearer with better contrast.