How many people on this forum listen to DSD?

[Revolutions]

Just curious, but it doesn’t seem to have analogue outputs. So how does it play SACDs, because I thought they had in effect a copy protection, so you cannot ‘output’ a SACD digital stream. 🫤

By contrast my old Oppo 95 does output SACD as an analogue signal, just like a regular hifi CD player.

They’re designed for AV receivers, so use HDMI output.

Only specific SACD players (ie not dvd) have audio out.

 

[nopiano]

They’re designed for AV receivers, so use HDMI output.

Only specific SACD players (ie not dvd) have audio out.

Ah, ok, so it’s fine for replay through an AV system, but not really for a more traditional stereo then. I guess it’s better for multi channel SACDs.

I guess that’s why Oppo was so well liked, as it really could do everything.

 

[Al ears]

Ah, ok, so it’s fine for replay through an AV system, but not really for a more traditional stereo then. I guess it’s better for multi channel SACDs.

I guess that’s why Oppo was so well liked, as it really could do everything.

No SACD was originally for stereo only but had to be played through a player that had the appropriate laser and ability to play that layer.
Funnily enough I have just received the latest Pink Floyd Dark Side of the Moon SACD that is also a surround sound recording. Unfortunately will not be able to test this until I replace my knackered Home cinema amp.......

 

[jjbomber]

until I replace my knackered Home cinema amp.......

Just need a processor as the Oppo has a pre-amp.

 

[nopiano]

No SACD was originally for stereo only but had to be played through a player that had the appropriate laser and ability to play that layer.
Funnily enough I have just received the latest Pink Floyd Dark Side of the Moon SACD that is also a surround sound recording. Unfortunately will not be able to test this until I replace my knackered Home cinema amp.......

That’s what I thought, that multichannel came later. By ‘it’ I meant that particular Sony player, not SACD as a format. I probably wasn’t clear.

I have a DSOTM with a 30th anniversary sticker that says it’s stereo and multichannel, is that the same one? I have only heard the stereo version, but it’s not identical to the old LPs, not that I ever bought one but heard it everywhere for years, and I think I had it on cassette!

 

[Al ears]

That’s what I thought, that multichannel came later. By ‘it’ I meant that particular Sony player, not SACD as a format. I probably wasn’t clear.

I have a DSOTM with a 30th anniversary sticker that says it’s stereo and multichannel, is that the same one? I have only heard the stereo version, but it’s not identical to the old LPs, not that I ever bought one but heard it everywhere for years, and I think I had it on cassette!

Yes, probably the same disc although mine does not have a sticker.

 

[Cricketbat70]

I played a few SACDs when I had my Sony 4k Blu Ray player. They sounded great, but were going through a Quad Vena 2 amp at the time. Very warm and soft sounding. I would consider another SACD player and streaming amp combo, if it ever turned up. I don't think Spotify will release a HIFI tier any time soon. I still have all my CDs etc. There's also Blu Ray Audio discs, but has a limited catalogue, the same as DVD Audio. SACD is still alive, but I think its coffin will be ready within a few years. The Blu Ray Audio discs are so rare, but many are in very high quality surround:

Amazon.co.uk

I am pretty annoyed with my self. I couple of years ago I gave my first Blu-ray player away to a friend who had nothing. I thought we've got my son's Blu-ray player but what I didn't realise is that my Sony had the capability of playing SACD I never had any discs but around the same time I found out it could play them I was looking at buying a few second hand disce to find out what they were like.

 

[Jasonovich]

I am pretty annoyed with my self. I couple of years ago I gave my first Blu-ray player away to a friend who had nothing. I thought we've got my son's Blu-ray player but what I didn't realise is that my Sony had the capability of playing SACD I never had any discs but around the same time I found out it could play them I was looking at buying a few second hand disce to find out what they were like.

I prefer the sound of SACD to 16bit CD's. SACD is essentially Sony proprietary version of DSD64. The price of SACD is completely nuts, still, it is something physical and has relative value.
My Marantz SA8005 SACD player also plays DSD's upward of DSD256 via USB connection. If you're still looking for a player, look for one that has DSD compatibility as well, nice to have an option. The DSD >64 downloads from NativeDSD are much cheaper and often higher quality than SACD's.

 

[Gray]

My Panasonic DVD recorder plays DVD Audio discs.
I found a stray DVDA disc in an HMV sale - (they probably didn't know what it was 🙂)
Supernatural by Santana - couldn't resist it for a fiver.

I believe the format started around the same time as SACD, but this is the only DVDA disc I've ever seen 🤔

...must get round to listening to it properly, before the player (or I) expire 😐

 

[daveh75]

I'm so old school I don't know what DSD is!

An utterly pointless format with limited releases, requiring specific h/w, and much faff to listen to... So of course popular with audiophools

 

[DougK1]

An utterly pointless format with limited releases, requiring specific h/w, and much faff to listen to... So of course popular with audiophools

Brilliant response.

 

[Al ears]

Brilliant response.

The same could be said of CDs. However, back a while there was plenty of hardware that could play it and the format still is very popular in Japan.
My only concern is why anyone produced blu-ray audio discs.....

 

[Dom]

The same could be said of CDs. However, back a while there was plenty of hardware that could play it and the format still is very popular in Japan.
My only concern is why anyone produced blu-ray audio discs.....

They might have some vid on them?

 

[Rui]

I am totally sold on DSD, in terms of tonality and natural smooth sound. I don't care about the science, I just love what I'm hearing. In the same way people enjoy listening to vinyl. You can argue there's a lot of wow and flutter on vinyl, all that distortion, lack of pitch, timing and instability and yet, there's something about vinyl that lures us in. Same with DSD, I can only conclude the sound is more natural, even though the noise level is excessive and this necessitates special filtering to remove this.

I listen mostly DSD512 format and God bless NativeDSD, where I am spoilt for choice. I think streaming needs to catch on, where at best you can find Flac at high resolution but it's still PCM. Most of the Chinese orientated DACs are laden with a wide variety of digital formats both DSD and PCM. Once we hit a point of saturation, streaming companies will start to exploit this, why won't they, it's profit! Imagine premium DSD512 download from Tidal £29.99 or MP3 £3.99.

I believe SACD failed because it came too late in the game and Sony's policy of closed shop probably deterred universal acceptance of the format but it's child DSD; is the cat that jumped out of the bag.
My personal opinion, DSD can't fail, MSQ is neigh on dead and PCM is the de'facto for anything digital. I think in 10 years time, DSD will become ubiquitous as PCM.
I would love to hear your thoughts on this.

View: https://youtu.be/v4Mj6oCfdog?si=fMcZj-nZMB2AWaiK

it seems you don´t know the basic´s to good sound, as DSD made nothing to digital sound,i sold my DSD ,whatever that thing did to the best digital files, it basically works like a equalizer and i have them ,very good ones, you can´t improve a defective thing ,it always be defective no matter what you spent to make it sound good , the defect is always there, a DAC around 100€ in reality cost from 1 to 3 € but people didn´t learn nothing in school so now they believe they did, you know the term, Snake Oil? mainly is what is happeneing today while Sony makes millions

 

[Rui]

Universal/Bluray players can play SACDs , Ground up Dedicated SACD players can cost a small fortune and can sound sublime

that is true, in a big surface i saw a SACD player component in stereo ,they asked what today is 450€ for it ,being a sony i couldn´t believe it was made of brushed aluminium after a year or two i notice it being sold for 100€ ,
i bought it ,but they at the time 90´s use to say that SACD will meet the vinyl quality of sound(this said by sony world wide technicians ),

and now people discuss which is better , the cd or vinyl ,if played in a modern turntable between 1.000 and 2.000€ it will sound bad,

but if played in a 2nd hand 100 to 200€ turntable with original cartridge and needle before they reduced it´s size to 1/10 of the regualr size , it will sound maybe 1.000.000 better (not real as it can not be compared one sounds real other sounds like i don´t even know what to call it

 

[Rui]

Ah, ok, so it’s fine for replay through an AV system, but not really for a more traditional stereo then. I guess it’s better for multi channel SACDs.

I guess that’s why Oppo was so well liked, as it really could do everything.

liked it even more

 

[Rui]

No SACD was originally for stereo only but had to be played through a player that had the appropriate laser and ability to play that layer.
Funnily enough I have just received the latest Pink Floyd Dark Side of the Moon SACD that is also a surround sound recording. Unfortunately will not be able to test this until I replace my knackered Home cinema amp.......

yes and explain why my SACD player was only stereo and the most expensive Sony released esprit series, in brushed aluminium, in mid 90´s.

They, people who work for Sony , told that the SACD was supposed to meet vinyl quality to cd´s and people still don´t understand it,

that as an example guitars with efects can´t be reproduced in a cd , well some most simple guitar efects like amplifier distortion as in Marshal brand in the 80´s,

today it´s better but not good and guitars are played by some taking in consideration it´s limits or it would be heard on a cd, like chords strings vibration as a simple example,

all seem now jazz guitar players from 80´s bands, far from Django reinhardt style of playing(hope i didn´t writte it wrong)

​

 

[manicm]

They’re designed for AV receivers, so use HDMI output.

Only specific SACD players (ie not dvd) have audio out.

If one wanted to play multichannel then it had to be through HDMI, but the thing is extremely few AV receivers actually preserved the DSD bitstream - most converted it to PCM.

And from what I believe your much vaunted Oppo players etc still converted DSD internally to PCM when using the analog outs.

It was your high-end SACD players that actually preserved DSD internally for stereo playback before conversion through their analog outs.

 

[Al ears]

yes and explain why my SACD player was only stereo and the most expensive Sony released esprit series, in brushed aluminium, in mid 90´s.

They, people who work for Sony , told that the SACD was supposed to meet vinyl quality to cd´s and people still don´t understand it,

that as an example guitars with efects can´t be reproduced in a cd , well some most simple guitar efects like amplifier distortion as in Marshal brand in the 80´s,

today it´s better but not good and guitars are played by some taking in consideration it´s limits or it would be heard on a cd, like chords strings vibration as a simple example,

all seem now jazz guitar players from 80´s bands, far from Django reinhardt style of playing(hope i didn´t writte it wrong)

​

no idea what you mean any form of media will accurately play back whatever is recorded regardless of instruments.

 

[Rui]

no idea what you mean any form of media will accurately play back whatever is recorded regardless of instruments.

Well not all have the same hearing or years of playing and listening to music, i always give the example of the supertramp album "crime of the century" in the song bloody well right ,there is some guitar chords played that in the record bought in 76 you can hear the vibration of the strings ,

in cd all sound is perverted and no more loud guitar or anything near the original, this when last re-re-released in cd ,thinking it would sound at least ok , but far from it .

I could never hear it again ,people have diferent systems ,i had a very good one bought in 76 and bought more modern ones when already working ,the sound is always there as the record ,maybe the only album i like from this band having some songs from other two albuns that i like them, like soap-box opera from "crisis, what crisis?" or take the long way home from "Breakfast in America"

this one ,the vinyl is still very good sounding but the cover because it was heard a lot is cutted in all sides, that´s what happen first when records are well taken care of ,the cover is the first to go not the record,

try to listen to this song then tell me if you hear the strings vibration on the cd, i have a good cd player and not even the guitar sounds like a guitar like it happens with all albums recorded till the end of the 90´s

if played in cd ,the sound is far from the recording in studio , the vinyl is the more close to the sound produced in the studio, the six string guitars with amplifier distortion are all destroyd in the cds ,any one.

The problem now is that i hear a lot of people saying their pro-Ject debut with a 2Mred from ortofon sound amazing good ,but having 28 turntables ,related with my hobby and people i know , i never heard such a bad sound coming from any turntable released since mid 60´s till second half of the 90´s,

after i spent some years not buying records as i bought many cds and i was ofered a even better cd player. Only in 2018 i bought again some 20 records till today ,but i never stoped hearing records as they sounded better than the cds, in any system i bought.

Now there is the diference in systems and speakers and mainly after 1980 when all brands decreased a lot their components quality if you have a before 1980 system you´ll notice the huge diference in sound quality ,some don´t touch the tone contriols ,if they are there is for a reason ,

as the studios have great professional equipment wouldn´t sound like a cd played almost in direct with whatever speakers one has at home or amplifiers that only around 5.000 € they match some cheap amplifiers from the 70´s, as i bought a new receiver with all modern conections and only one output for recording devices ,it was expensive but far from a technics amplifier i have , bought in the 70´s

as an example the SX-408 from pioneer was the cheapest receiver there was in 1979 but sound wise it´s the same as more powerfull amplifiers from that year ,this refering to sound quality,

The quality is there in what they call now "blue series" ,but Pioneer as blue displays since early 70´s ,don´t get it and don´t want to know why is it so,

try it with your equipment and then tell me you don´t notice a big diference, i refer the guitar in one song but if you have good hearing you´ll notice all albums and all sounds recorded are all perverted in the cd version of it,

as i heard in a friends house those macintosh with more lights than quality of sound with some huge new old model from klipsch and it´s sad when playing a cd from joan baez from the early 70´s the hiss heard .

when i took there a PL-590 from pioneer with the record bought when released he was not believeing the diference between the cd player, everything from macintosh and the pioneer already using a AT cartridge(modern one) the AT-art9 that i consider expensive and dull because it was far from the AT mc type cartridge i had installed on it in early 80´s from my father´s equipment,

but somehow it sounded a lot better than the cd which is a format developed in the 70´s and by the 80´s there was for home use a not comparable by how good it was new digital format known as DAT ,expensive but acurate .

Also people talk about SACD with not a real description, i remenber it well when to be released the technicians saying "it will be a cd that match records quality "(vinyl like all call it today).

When released was better ,only far from what was advertised when talked about years earlier ,that i bought because of a mistaken price tag in a big surface as around 3 years earlier was there already for sale for a price around what today is 850€ .

One day i notice a price tag saying 120€ and i bought it , it´s a Sony in brushed aluminium only stereo as today there are surround outputs in combos with very bad sound that never satisfied me, i had maybe 50 SACD at home to hear them but not one was as good as it was promissed a lot of years early,

sorry for the long coment

 

[Rui]

no idea what you mean any form of media will accurately play back whatever is recorded regardless of instruments.

well i don´t know what to tell you but some ...better all lp´s released in compact disc they sound horrible compared to the old record release , but for this you have to know how a band sounded or you wouldn´t notice because you haven´t heard it yeat , i when buying more cds bought a lot of my prefered old Lp´s sounded horrible and my new system bought in the 90´s was considered a very good one with a 74 pioneer turntable all original including the cartridge would sound amazing but the cd player who was a very expensive and good one as told in lot´s of hi-fi magazines at the time, soundded steril ,even the cassettes recorded from those ds sounded better ,i´m refering tio a very expensive sony ES power and pre with new top of the line cerwin vega speakers with a less powerfull 80´s 761 mission 4 ohms speakers, it had great sound but cds were bad sounding ,in what concerns to quality, and accurate not even 50% of it, later i was ofered a Cd player from CEC which was very good ,a belt driven one still sold today by a fortune ,only recentelly i knew what it costed and still costs around 36.000€ ,the one before was a Sony with transport apart from all functions in it being two separeted components was also very good being a Sony, but if you think they sound the same ,it´s ok by me, only saying that they made very good sounding lp´s sound bad ,i could writte here examples but all were bad ,when i say bad i´m not saying it missed bits but the sound as a whole was weak and very bad sounding ,only started to use a equalizer at home when having more cds, till then i had them but never conect it as didn´t feel the need of one , it was my first new 90´s system but i had three diferent ones as i was noticing some litle problems were appearing in the first 6 monthes of use, it´s a Sony ESprit series, some even compare it with nakamichi wich is basically the same, it works perfect and you fell like you had made a great bought but in a year at the most you´re using again you´re 70´s released system as they work for decades without any problem , cd players were good but the best ones were considered worst than others that were cheaply built ,it´s like the DAC´s , never felt like they done anything to the cd sound as you can´t change what is recorded on it ,a equalizer would do the same work some even pay a lot to decrease the sound of their cd player, it´s a must have but till 500€ they only decrease the cd player sound if you have a good one, the same with pre-amplifiers for turntables ,if one as a good turntable and cartridge it decrease´s also their sound quality if the volume is that important ,only by having a 70 watts amplifier or more it wouldn´t do nothing, and some say "the most direct as possible" and then they buy pre this and pre that and DAC ´s for their digital sources, people would save a lot of money by changing their cd players internal DAC only spending with assembling 50€ at the most and it would at least ,work