Vinyl...bit deflated.

[chebby]

Good turntables are great, but getting your hands on one is, to my mind, not easy...

I think that getting a good turntable is easy.

All you have to do is follow the advice of someone that knows what they're talking about. Someone that's listened to a wide variety of TT's, and isn't still brainwashed by some of the marketing nonsense that's been around in hi-fi for a long time.

And then you have to actually buy a good TT. Which you can do with a few clicks of your mouse button and less than £999. And then a road trip in your car to go and collect it.

Finding such a person is the trick.....*good*

Maybe someone who has been involved in hi-fi retailing for more than twenty five years and has done consultancy work for serious turntable manufacturers.

Someone who has listened to hundreds of different players, performed thousands of comparitive demonstrations and installed and set up many, many players in peoples homes.

Now where on earth would you find someone with experience like that.....*unknw*

Evidently Lindsay meant himself.

I hope you two aren't going to start waggling your 'credentials' at each other. It's most unseemly. Worse than those people who leave piles of dropped names everywhere.

 

[Jota180]

Good turntables are great, but getting your hands on one is, to my mind, not easy...

I think that getting a good turntable is easy.

All you have to do is follow the advice of someone that knows what they're talking about. Someone that's listened to a wide variety of TT's, and isn't still brainwashed by some of the marketing nonsense that's been around in hi-fi for a long time.

And then you have to actually buy a good TT. Which you can do with a few clicks of your mouse button and less than £999. And then a road trip in your car to go and collect it.

But if you don't know about the (any) subject how are you expcted to know if you're listening to someone who does?

Regarding the sitting back and just enjoying the music, I'm finding internet radio stations have given me back that feeling, introducing me to new bands in the way that the usual local and national radio stations like the BBC have failed to do.

 

[davedotco]

Good turntables are great, but getting your hands on one is, to my mind, not easy...

I think that getting a good turntable is easy.

All you have to do is follow the advice of someone that knows what they're talking about. Someone that's listened to a wide variety of TT's, and isn't still brainwashed by some of the marketing nonsense that's been around in hi-fi for a long time.

And then you have to actually buy a good TT. Which you can do with a few clicks of your mouse button and less than £999. And then a road trip in your car to go and collect it.

Finding such a person is the trick.....*good*

Maybe someone who has been involved in hi-fi retailing for more than twenty five years and has done consultancy work for serious turntable manufacturers.

Someone who has listened to hundreds of different players, performed thousands of comparitive demonstrations and installed and set up many, many players in peoples homes.

Now where on earth would you find someone with experience like that.....*unknw*

Evidently Lindsay meant himself.

I hope you two aren't going to start waggling your 'credentials' at each other. It's most unseemly. Worse than those people who leave piles of dropped names everywhere.

It's a shame that 'expertese' is so lightly dismissed these days. I know that it is PC to accord equal respect to all opinions, even the most uninformed, a formula for mediocrity if ever there was one.

Lindsayt does undoubtably have great expertese in certain sectors but his solutions are not for eveyone. Often I attempt to offer guidance to those music lovers who simply want to go to a dealer and buy a useable, good sounding, domestically acceptable (to them) setup. In almost all cases I strongly recommend the services of a compedent dealer, advice that is routinely ignored in favour of 5* products from mass market retailers.

As I have mentioned before, I still get to hear plenty of setups in peoples homes and the results are almost universally awful, most of these are not vinyl based but those that are are often worse. This leads me to the conclusions about the general state of hi-fi retailing that I air on this forum.

Most hi-fi buyers are not experts and do not want to be, they have little experience and buy based on marketing and hype which they are unable to distinquish from genuine expertese.

I will continue to stand up for the benefits of using a compedent dealer, particularly when considering a vinyl based system, and yes those dealers 'credentials' are important, so I make no excuses for airing my own.

 

[tino]

Putting together a good player, one that works really well, is not easy particularly if you are going to do it yourself. How are you going to chose an arm if you do not know the resonant frequencies of the suspension, the cantilever-arm resonance, the correct cartridge loading and that is before you even start on the setup.

This may sound over the top, but low frequency vinyl 'roar' can be hugely magnified by resonances caused by poorly chosen components, misstracking and end of side distortion magnified by tip mass and compliance issues, m/c cartridges 'spitty' due to poor impedance matching etc, etc.

Such information used to be freely available to the enthusiast and if you were not comfortable with the complexity of all that, there were dealers who could do this for you. These days dealers tend to rely on manufacturers 'packages', many of which are simply put together to maximise sales of the manufacturers or importers lines rather than any performance reasons.

I agree .... but as is the case in many industries, technology has moved on ... that's why we don't go round our cars every week greasing suspension joints or checking the points gap, even though there was a time when it was commonplace to do this type of maintenance. Most people, except hobbyists or collectors, don't want to spend the time and money needed to keep a turntable working at its best. The shame is that when a technology becomes effectively 'obsolete', the knowledge associated with it dwindles and becomes very expensive to access, and the public's appreciation of the skill and expertise needed to maintain it evaporates as well.

 

[davedotco]

That's a good summation of the way things are and I think I understand why that is.

The problem I have is that having become accustomed to good quality vinyl playback the budget setups that I hear really do not cut the mustard yet seem to get recommendations and praise aplenty, which I really do not understand.

I understand that vinyl is currently, in some circles, pretty 'hip' but in my experience the 'hipsters' do not have a clue about quality playback, play them a decent system and they would probably faint.

 

[tino]

That's a good summation of the way things are and I think I understand why that is.

The problem I have is that having become accustomed to good quality vinyl playback the budget setups that I hear really do not cut the mustard yet seem to get recommendations and praise aplenty, which I really do not understand.

I understand that vinyl is currently, in some circles, pretty 'hip' but in my experience the 'hipsters' do not have a clue about quality playback, play them a decent system and they would probably faint.

C'est la vie I'm afraid. I'm not sure sure that quality playback would be appreciated as much as you think. Some people might actually prefer compressed bass heavy music, Beats headphones, and soup from a packet .... just because that's what they have grown up with or had marketed at them.

 

[lindsayt]

Good turntables are great, but getting your hands on one is, to my mind, not easy...

I think that getting a good turntable is easy.

All you have to do is follow the advice of someone that knows what they're talking about. Someone that's listened to a wide variety of TT's, and isn't still brainwashed by some of the marketing nonsense that's been around in hi-fi for a long time.

And then you have to actually buy a good TT. Which you can do with a few clicks of your mouse button and less than £999. And then a road trip in your car to go and collect it.

Finding such a person is the trick.....*good*

Maybe someone who has been involved in hi-fi retailing for more than twenty five years and has done consultancy work for serious turntable manufacturers.

Someone who has listened to hundreds of different players, performed thousands of comparitive demonstrations and installed and set up many, many players in peoples homes.

Now where on earth would you find someone with experience like that.....*unknw*

Evidently Lindsay meant himself.

I hope you two aren't going to start waggling your 'credentials' at each other. It's most unseemly. Worse than those people who leave piles of dropped names everywhere.

No I did not mean myself.

I meant Radine from pfm.

And Dr Bunsen Honeydew from Hi-fi Subjectivist.

And Gromit who year in year out brings exhibits systems at Scalford that sound good for the money spent on them.

 

[lindsayt]

Good turntables are great, but getting your hands on one is, to my mind, not easy...

I think that getting a good turntable is easy.

All you have to do is follow the advice of someone that knows what they're talking about. Someone that's listened to a wide variety of TT's, and isn't still brainwashed by some of the marketing nonsense that's been around in hi-fi for a long time.

And then you have to actually buy a good TT. Which you can do with a few clicks of your mouse button and less than £999. And then a road trip in your car to go and collect it.

Finding such a person is the trick.....*good*

Maybe someone who has been involved in hi-fi retailing for more than twenty five years and has done consultancy work for serious turntable manufacturers.

Someone who has listened to hundreds of different players, performed thousands of comparitive demonstrations and installed and set up many, many players in peoples homes.

Now where on earth would you find someone with experience like that.....*unknw*

In general (there are one or two exceptions), ex-hi-fi-dealers offer the worst advice on hi-fi forums.

Especially the ones from Linn Naim dealerships.

 

[Covenanter]

Good turntables are great, but getting your hands on one is, to my mind, not easy...

I think that getting a good turntable is easy.

All you have to do is follow the advice of someone that knows what they're talking about. Someone that's listened to a wide variety of TT's, and isn't still brainwashed by some of the marketing nonsense that's been around in hi-fi for a long time.

And then you have to actually buy a good TT. Which you can do with a few clicks of your mouse button and less than £999. And then a road trip in your car to go and collect it.

Finding such a person is the trick.....*good*

Maybe someone who has been involved in hi-fi retailing for more than twenty five years and has done consultancy work for serious turntable manufacturers.

Someone who has listened to hundreds of different players, performed thousands of comparitive demonstrations and installed and set up many, many players in peoples homes.

Now where on earth would you find someone with experience like that.....*unknw*

In general (there are one or two exceptions), ex-hi-fi-dealers offer the worst advice on hi-fi forums.

Especially the ones from Linn Naim dealerships.

Along with hifi dealers!

Chris

 

[davedotco]

Good turntables are great, but getting your hands on one is, to my mind, not easy...

I think that getting a good turntable is easy.

All you have to do is follow the advice of someone that knows what they're talking about. Someone that's listened to a wide variety of TT's, and isn't still brainwashed by some of the marketing nonsense that's been around in hi-fi for a long time.

And then you have to actually buy a good TT. Which you can do with a few clicks of your mouse button and less than £999. And then a road trip in your car to go and collect it.

Finding such a person is the trick.....*good*

Maybe someone who has been involved in hi-fi retailing for more than twenty five years and has done consultancy work for serious turntable manufacturers.

Someone who has listened to hundreds of different players, performed thousands of comparitive demonstrations and installed and set up many, many players in peoples homes.

Now where on earth would you find someone with experience like that.....*unknw*

In general (there are one or two exceptions), ex-hi-fi-dealers offer the worst advice on hi-fi forums.

Especially the ones from Linn Naim dealerships.

Since you are naming names, would you care to offer some examples, ex-Linn/Naim dealers that is?

I'm all agog....!

 

[drummerman]

Good turntables are great, but getting your hands on one is, to my mind, not easy...

I think that getting a good turntable is easy.

All you have to do is follow the advice of someone that knows what they're talking about. Someone that's listened to a wide variety of TT's, and isn't still brainwashed by some of the marketing nonsense that's been around in hi-fi for a long time.

And then you have to actually buy a good TT. Which you can do with a few clicks of your mouse button and less than £999. And then a road trip in your car to go and collect it.

Finding such a person is the trick.....*good*

Maybe someone who has been involved in hi-fi retailing for more than twenty five years and has done consultancy work for serious turntable manufacturers.

Someone who has listened to hundreds of different players, performed thousands of comparitive demonstrations and installed and set up many, many players in peoples homes.

Now where on earth would you find someone with experience like that.....*unknw*

In general (there are one or two exceptions), ex-hi-fi-dealers offer the worst advice on hi-fi forums.

Especially the ones from Linn Naim dealerships.

Along with hifi dealers!

Chris

I am not an ex-hifi dealer but still give terrible advise.

Where do I fit in?

 

[davedotco]

Good turntables are great, but getting your hands on one is, to my mind, not easy...

I think that getting a good turntable is easy.

All you have to do is follow the advice of someone that knows what they're talking about. Someone that's listened to a wide variety of TT's, and isn't still brainwashed by some of the marketing nonsense that's been around in hi-fi for a long time.

And then you have to actually buy a good TT. Which you can do with a few clicks of your mouse button and less than £999. And then a road trip in your car to go and collect it.

Finding such a person is the trick.....*good*

Maybe someone who has been involved in hi-fi retailing for more than twenty five years and has done consultancy work for serious turntable manufacturers.

Someone who has listened to hundreds of different players, performed thousands of comparitive demonstrations and installed and set up many, many players in peoples homes.

Now where on earth would you find someone with experience like that.....*unknw*

In general (there are one or two exceptions), ex-hi-fi-dealers offer the worst advice on hi-fi forums.

Especially the ones from Linn Naim dealerships.

Along with hifi dealers!

Chris

I am not an ex-hifi dealer but still give terrible advise.

Where do I fit in?

You "fit in" a frock, obviously...*give_rose*

 

[Vladimir]

I am not an ex-hifi dealer but still give terrible advise.

Where do I fit in?

Standing in line behind me. I'm trailblazing in that rock/metal speaker thread. *crazy*

 

[davedotco]

I am not an ex-hifi dealer but still give terrible advise.

Where do I fit in?

Standing in line behind me. I'm trailblazing in that rock/metal speaker thread. *crazy*

You seem to be enjoying yourself there, thought I would leave you to it....*dirol*

That said, I do find the idea of choosing a hi-fi system to replay some of the worse recordings ever a bit perplexing.

But then, I did do my training today to a recording of the Grateful Dead playing live in Pittsburg in 1989. Recorded from the main mixing console to 8 track, this was hardly state of the art recoreding, but Garcia's playing and his interplay with Phil Lesh's magnificent bass lines is there for all to hear.

 

[Vladimir]

But then, I did do my training today to a recording of the Grateful Dead playing live in Pittsburg in 1989. Recorded from the main mixing console to 8 track, this was hardly state of the art recoreding, but Garcia's playing and his interplay with Phil Lesh's magnificent bass lines is there for all to hear.

Will give that one a spin for the first time.

 

[Freddy58]

Craving leads to suffering and being content leads towards tranquility.

You are Yoda, and I claim my £5 *biggrin*

 

[Vladimir]

 

[Freddy58]

*biggrin*

 

[davedotco]

But then, I did do my training today to a recording of the Grateful Dead playing live in Pittsburg in 1989. Recorded from the main mixing console to 8 track, this was hardly state of the art recoreding, but Garcia's playing and his interplay with Phil Lesh's magnificent bass lines is there for all to hear.

Will give that one a spin for the first time.

Warning! This is one of the Dead's epic shows, spreads over 4 cds, take sandwiches....*music2*

Trained today to New Order, Live at Bestival 2012.

Missing 'Hookie' but the performance was really very mature and, for them, refined. Might be lacking a little in terms of youthfull exuberence but still seriously good. A quite superb rendition of True Faith and a total reinvention of Curtis's tragic masterpiece as the "Song to end all festivals".