Unexpected speaker cable surprise

[busb]

A recent change in speakers required repositioning my whole system that means I can reduce their length from 5m to 2m per channel. I've been using Atlas Ascent 2 (bought at the Bristol show a couple of years back at half the usual cost). The individual strands are very fine so are crimped into ferules that then are clamped into the screw-tighten 4mm plugs. Two ends have come out of the ferules so am about to return them to Atlas for shortening to 2m with new ferules.

I cut down some old Exposure cable that's over 25yrs old to 2m terminated with good quality hollow 4mm plugs then swapped them over. It was as if I was listening to totally different speakers: the image collapsed, detail gone - a generally dull & indistinct sound. I was rather surprised. I feel less of a lemon having spent a fortune on the Atlas cable. I'm far less inclined to spend well over the odds on interconnects but my experience with speaker wire is very different (yet again).

 

[drummerman]

TrevC will be along shortly to educate you about the errors of your thinking and the power of imagination.

Did you conduct this experiment in a scientifically controlled environment as an abcdefx blind test after fasting for 3 days, no sex for 2 months and complete deprivation of any sensory input for 24 hours?

In other words, do you have access to an anechoic chamber and an impartial suitably qualified sound engineer, lived like a monk, are starving hungry and slept in a closed box for a whole day?

If not, the quoted result can not possibly be valid.

 

[bigfish786]

In the same position, or have you moved them in any way ?

i only ask, as it's not just the positioning of the speakers, but the whole acoustic setup in your room.

ive found that insignificant things like coffee tables or other furnishings can dramatically change the whole soundstage.

For example, I recently moved two boxes containing records away from my speakers, from doing this, I had a noticeable drop in bass response.

A recent change in speakers required repositioning my whole system that means I can reduce their length from 5m to 2m per channel. I've been using Atlas Ascent 2 (bought at the Bristol show a couple of years back at half the usual cost). The individual strands are very fine so are crimped into ferules that then are clamped into the screw-tighten 4mm plugs. Two ends have come out of the ferules so am about to return them to Atlas for shortening to 2m with new ferules.

I cut down some old Exposure cable that's over 25yrs old to 2m terminated with good quality hollow 4mm plugs then swapped them over. It was as if I was listening to totally different speakers: the image collapsed, detail gone - a generally dull & indistinct sound. I was rather surprised. I feel less of a lemon having spent a fortune on the Atlas cable. I'm far less inclined to spend well over the odds on interconnects but my experience with speaker wire is very different (yet again).

 

[busb]

Indeed. A 2nd tier engineer will state that a particular observation is false - full stop. A far-sighted one will be sceptical but acknowledges that if so many people's experience is at odds with current engineering wisdom, they will try to determine why, even if doing so means debunking falsehoods. Sometimes science gets pushed along that little bit further due to observations being confirmed by sound science (pun intended).

The short version is to read CNoEvil's sig. However, it's worth remembering that without good engineering, the only music we would hear would be live!

 

[CnoEvil]

I'm not in the least surprised... But what do I know. *unknw*

 

[ellisdj]

Try the cables in the other direction.

 

[lpv]

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/jun/23/wine-tasting-junk-science-analysis

Experiments have shown that people can't tell plonk from grand cru. Now one US winemaker claims that even experts can't judge wine accurately. What's the science behind the taste?

 

[CnoEvil]

I think all cables taste the same, though the red ones can make you hyperactive.

 

[busb]

I think all cables taste the same, though the red ones can make you hyperactive.

snigger

 

[ID.]

And if someone broke into your place overnight and swapped your old cables back in without you realizing I'd bet (but maybe only 10 pounds or so ) that you wouldn't realize and would still claim that it sounded disorganized, etc.

I'm not saying there's no difference, but probably less than you think.

 

[NSA_watch_my_toilet]

You swapped the position of your entire gear in your room, changed your cable, and believe that the change in sound comes from your cable.

So you used a leftover 25 years old cable that could be oxidised, and it prooves once and for all that cables are an incredible tunning tool.

You are sweet. Like a virgin on first date.

 

[DaveyBoy1980]

I have also done a bit of speaker cable testing recently with cables being the only thing I haven't upgraded since being on this journey.

I was using some standard decent quality run of the mill generic speaker cable, the same cable I have been using for around 5 years and been happy with it. I then borrowed some terminated audioquest type 4 cable which I'd have thought would have been a big step up from what I was using and can honestly say there wasn't one ounce of difference.

After reading so many threads on here over the years about how speaker cable is just speaker cable and makes no notable difference to sound I wasn't entirely surprised.

I was then offered some Tellurium Q black for a very good price as the owner had just moved his kit around and had gone out and bought 2 x 5m lengths and needed to sell his 3m lengths.

Still being sceptical but just out of curiousity wanted to give it a try I was blown away! This was the upgrade that turned it around for me. All of a sudden the bass wasn't just one note. It was layers of notes being heard individually, the speakers seemed to disappear and the music just floated in front of me exactly how I've heard proper high end systems in the past. It's just what I needed to realise that I'm finally there and am 100% happy with my system.

 

[andyjm]

A speaker cable is part of an amp/speaker cable/speaker system. For normal amps, the amp output impedance is very low due to its active nature (sub 0.1 ohm), the speaker impedance is generally less than 8 ohms. O level physics would show that for audio frequencies and for the length of cable found in domestic environments, the only parameter that matters is cable resistance.

If you replace a run of bell flex with a 4mm CSA cable, then you may well be able to hear a difference. Replacing a perfectly good 2.5mm CSA cable with another perfectly good 2.5mm CSA cable won't make an audible difference - even if the insulation is woven from the hair off the bum of a unicorn.

If there really has been a change in the sound quality (and the odds are that there hasn't), then it will be due to other factors - moving the speaker to change the cable, tightening the connector, using a freshly stripped length of conductor or some other effect - not changing the cable itself.

Don't take my word for it, just google around the subject for the maths, all the analysis is out there on the web.

 

[TrevC]

TrevC will be along shortly to educate you about the errors of your thinking and the power of imagination.

Did you conduct this experiment in a scientifically controlled environment as an abcdefx blind test after fasting for 3 days, no sex for 2 months and complete deprivation of any sensory input for 24 hours?

In other words, do you have access to an anechoic chamber and an impartial suitably qualified sound engineer, lived like a monk, are starving hungry and slept in a closed box for a whole day?

If not, the quoted result can not possibly be valid.

TrevC has never said that all speaker cables sound the same, or that a blind test is required to determine which speaker cables are the best.

 

[DaveyBoy1980]

I don't doubt the science behind speakers cables at all.

There are measurements and lots of things I don't understand.

All I can say is that between the generic and Audioquest type 4 there was no difference in sound at all. But when I then swapped to the Tellurium there was a significant improvement. Every other aspect of the test was kept the same, speakers and amps in the same place. Furniture in the same place etc.....

I know all speaker cables aren't made the same which is why there will be different sounds. But all I can say is that between the £16/m and the £50/m speaker cables I tried there was a huge difference in sound. Whether this is down to the way the cables are made or materials of the cable or not I don't care one bit. It's just a much better sound and I am happier for it.

 

[TrevC]

I don't doubt the science behind speakers cables at all. There are measurements and lots of things I don't understand.

All I can say is that between the generic and Audioquest type 4 there was no difference in sound at all. But when I then swapped to the Tellurium there was a significant improvement. Every other aspect of the test was kept the same, speakers and amps in the same place. Furniture in the same place etc.....

I know all speaker cables aren't made the same which is why there will be different sounds. But all I can say is that between the £16/m and the £50/m speaker cables I tried there was a huge difference in sound. Whether this is down to the way the cables are made or materials of the cable or not I don't care one bit. It's just a much better sound and I am happier for it.

Prices are meaningless in this context. Nordost sell inadequate speaker cable called Red Heaven or some such nonsense that will sound like bell wire because it's simply too thin and high resistance.

You need 4 or 6mm copper on a longish run. Any idea what Tellurium is made of? If you did, you could duplicate it at a fraction of the price.

 

[DaveyBoy1980]

I have no idea what it's made from. Checked their site but it doesn't seem to say but I didn't pay anywhere near the RRP for it as it was 2nd hand.

I'm sure there are probably quite a few much cheaper cables that offer the same reaults. I just came across this one at a price I was willing to pay.

 

[ellisdj]

its not 4 or 6mm thick I am pretty sure of that - thats TrevC theory ruined.

 

[TrevC]

its not 4 or 6mm thick I am pretty sure of that - thats TrevC theory ruined.

Of course, you being pretty sure of something easily dismisses the laws of physics.

 

[TrevC]

I have no idea what it's made from. Checked their site but it doesn't seem to say but I didn't pay anywhere near the RRP for it as it was 2nd hand.

I'm sure there are probably quite a few much cheaper cables that offer the same reaults. I just came across this one at a price I was willing to pay.

They will never say what's in the cables. If people knew they wouldn't buy them, it's as simple as that.

 

[ellisdj]

its not 4 or 6mm thick I am pretty sure of that - thats TrevC theory ruined.

Of course, you being pretty sure of something easily dismisses the laws of physics.

You asked the question, I gave you the answer - the chap heard it for himself with pure scepticism i.e. he was expecting to hear no difference and yet now wouldnt part with the TQ Black from his system - unless he heard something better

I have held the TQ Black in my hands and its not thick enough to be 4mm or 6mm - more like 2 tops.

Whereas the Audioquest the chap tried before is more like 4mm

 

[ellisdj]

I have no idea what it's made from. Checked their site but it doesn't seem to say but I didn't pay anywhere near the RRP for it as it was 2nd hand.

I'm sure there are probably quite a few much cheaper cables that offer the same reaults. I just came across this one at a price I was willing to pay.

They will never say what's in the cables. If people knew they wouldn't buy them, it's as simple as that.

This is BS most cable companies fully explain whats used in the cables and why - TQ dont however.

 

[DaveyBoy1980]

I do think people spend too much time talking over the technical side of cables.

Whether they have a name to them or not, whether they are cheap or expensive or whatever they are made of. There are cables that sound better than others with different kit.

I think if forum members find one cable better than another it helps other members know which cables to try out in their system. I only went for the TQ because of the rave reviews everywhere and it happens to be the best cable I've tried to the point of me knowing I will never have to worry about speaker cable ever again.

 

[TrevC]

I have no idea what it's made from. Checked their site but it doesn't seem to say but I didn't pay anywhere near the RRP for it as it was 2nd hand.

I'm sure there are probably quite a few much cheaper cables that offer the same reaults. I just came across this one at a price I was willing to pay.

They will never say what's in the cables. If people knew they wouldn't buy them, it's as simple as that.

This is BS most cable companies fully explain whats used in the cables and why - TQ dont however.

Find me one foo cable manufacturer that quotes the most important parameter of a speaker cable, the resistance per metre.

 

[chebby]

I was reading the Tellurium website to see what the fuss about and came across this ...

clicky

Can't really go on after that.

Tellerium Blue isn't insanely priced (about £40 more than my Van Damme cables cost me including termination and VAT) and their termination fees are reasonable (direct from the company) and postage is free. The Blue stuff is pretty too.

But I can't get past that CD! What does it say about everything else they make?