Throwing the cable cat amongst the pigeons!

[Mike Hunt]

yes - care to elaborate ?!

Sure...
Yes, it's nonsense. If it wasn't nonsense, the speaker manufacturer would have used 'better' cable.
Do you think speaker manufacturers want their speakers to sound bad? Or do you think they don't know what they're doing? Or is it more likely that they know exactly what they're doing, and they know that spending more money on the wiring in their £10k speakers will make zero difference? Do you think they're trying to scrimp on cost, when 10p worth of wire would make their £10k speakers sound better?

 

[Deleted member 188516]

Sure...
Yes, it's nonsense. If it wasn't nonsense, the speaker manufacturer would have used 'better' cable.
Do you think speaker manufacturers want their speakers to sound bad? Or do you think they don't know what they're doing? Or is it more likely that they know exactly what they're doing, and they know that spending more money on the wiring in their £10k speakers will make zero difference? Do you think they're trying to scrimp on cost, when 10p worth of wire would make their £10k speakers sound better?

one of the differences between the bowers and wilkins 600 and 700 hundred series is the use of better internal wiring.

this has a positive effect on performance as confirmed by a staff member i contacted at bowers and wilkins.

if this was nonsense i dont think they would bother...

this "tweak" was also pointed out to me by someone i sold some kit (amplifier) to years ago when he asked what speakers i owned (b&w 601 s2 at the time).

he advised (right or wrong) that by changing the internal wiring you could turn these speakers from a 2/10 to a 8/10 rating - all in his opinion of course.

its not something i have or am ever likely to try but going back to what i have stated from my communication with bowers and wilkins and what can be read on the yamaha (a-s3200) product pages it seems different (better ?) internal wiring can change and possibly improve a components sound...

 

[GSV Ethics Gradient]

Reminds me of the issue with car tyres - I know it's far from a direct comparison but you'd assume car companies would usually specify the best tyres for the job, but they don't. They have alliances with manufacturers and doubtless it makes economic sense (obviously no parallel in that there's no freebie wire manufacturer making a profit in cahoots). Now all tyres 'work', but the difference between good and bad is significant - there are many group tests undertaken each year. I have a friend whose car is like mine in many respects (4wd, front-engine, powerful) and whilst mine is pretty much unaffected by rain/cold, his becomes a complete liability. This is not down to the car, it's down to the choice of tyres the manufacturer made.

 

[Deleted member 188516]

Reminds me of the issue with car tyres - I know it's far from a direct comparison but you'd assume car companies would usually specify the best tyres for the job, but they don't. They have alliances with manufacturers and doubtless it makes economic sense (obviously no parallel in that there's no freebie wire manufacturer making a profit in cahoots). Now all tyres 'work', but the difference between good and bad is significant - there are many group tests undertaken each year. I have a friend whose car is like mine in many respects (4wd, front-engine, powerful) and whilst mine is pretty much unaffected by rain/cold, his becomes a complete liability. This is not down to the car, it's down to the choice of tyres the manufacturer made.

exactly just like how some speaker (and amplifier) companies choose to use better quality cabling and some dont.

its similar to how you have discovered with your cd player that adding weight(s) and damping the components case work has brought sonic benefits where as yamaha and marantz, for example, already look into this aspect and include these features in their designs.

(my old sony cdp xb930e uk tuned was like a brick !)

overall it just depends on what areas a manufacturer decides to spend the budget on when designing kit at the end of the day.

all areas can effect the sound of a component in varying different levels.

just take a look at what goes into the design of "cost no object" hifi kit if you want to judge the effects of whether internal wire quality and damping components is a myth.

(cad / computer audio design and msb are 2 other ultra high end companies that i have contacted and have confirmed this to me to...)

 

[TrevC]

so the cable you tried had a fault - it was badly made but not a bad design ?

Poorly screened, so poorly designed. It was OK on a CD player though.

 

[TrevC]

so basically you matched your speaker cable to the cable present internally in your speakers - synergy !

Synergy is nonsense,. The last thing you want to do is match your cables to the thin stuff inside. While a few cm of slightly resistive wire won't result in much of a loss of signal 5 metres of it certainly will.

 

[GSV Ethics Gradient]

its similar to how you have discovered with your cd player that adding weight(s) and damping the components case work has brought sonic benefits where as yamaha and marantz, for example, already look into this aspect and include these features in their designs.

I think MF does this to some degree, but the M series gear is not as heavy as the equivalent A308 that preceded it - the 308 pre weighs about 20kgs, the 308 power is 25kgs and the CD was 16kgs. The M6S CD is still fairly hefty at 12kgs, but I think the company has taken its eye off the ball a little in build quality terms.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

may i ask have you ever used more expensive interconnects (make / model) and if yes what results did you obtain ?

I am content with using and recommending basic interconnects and speaker cables.

Plug, play, forget and save your money.

Keep it simple. Simple is best.

 

[Deleted member 108165]

I have a friend whose car is like mine in many respects (4wd, front-engine, powerful) and whilst mine is pretty much unaffected by rain/cold, his becomes a complete liability. This is not down to the car, it's down to the choice of tyres the manufacturer made.

More likely down to the driver unless he's put budget boots on his car.

 

[Deleted member 188516]

I think MF does this to some degree, but the M series gear is not as heavy as the equivalent A308 that preceded it - the 308 pre weighs about 20kgs, the 308 power is 25kgs and the CD was 16kgs. The M6S CD is still fairly hefty at 12kgs, but I think the company has taken its eye off the ball a little in build quality terms.

i agree regarding mf and build quality. i owned an m6i integrated and the top panel of the case work made a horrible rattle noise if tapped even lightly.
it just did not seem (or sound) like a 2.5k piece of kit...

i bet the heavier a308 cd player would actually be better than the later released m6scd due to the weight and hence damping it has.

also there was not a great deal inside the actual unit (m6i) when looking at similar priced designs by marantz and yamaha.

 

[Deleted member 188516]

I am content with using and recommending basic interconnects and speaker cables.

Plug, play, forget and save your money.

Keep it simple. Simple is best.

thanks for the reply but my question was have you used and hence have experience of other (silly high priced) interconnect and speaker cables and how did you find them ?

i'll add i like your honest advice regarding cable choices as, coming from actual hifi dealer, it has more weight.

 

[Deleted member 188516]

Poorly screened, so poorly designed. It was OK on a CD player though.

how did the sound differ compared to the basic freebie on the cd player ?

 

[TrevC]

how did the sound differ compared to the basic freebie on the cd player ?

Why would it differ?

 

[Deleted member 188516]

Why would it differ?

tell me why it would not ?

 

[MUSICRAFT]

thanks for the reply but my question was have you used and hence have experience of other (silly high priced) interconnect and speaker cables and how did you find them ?

i'll add i like your honest advice regarding cable choices as, coming from actual hifi dealer, it has more weight.

You’re welcome and thanks.

I feel I’ve responded accordingly as my answer lies within.

 

[Deleted member 188516]

You’re welcome and thanks.

I feel I’ve responded accordingly as my answer lies within.

so you have never used / tried some of the more exotic / pricier cables on the market ?

 

[Mike Hunt]

thanks for the reply but my question was have you used and hence have experience of other (silly high priced) interconnect and speaker cables and how did you find them ?

i'll add i like your honest advice regarding cable choices as, coming from actual hifi dealer, it has more weight.

When a HiFi salesperson, who isn't involved in the pushing and selling of boutique cables, recommends not spending your money on such cables, I'd say it more than adds weight. It's more along the lines of:
/thread

 

[TrevC]

tell me why it would not ?

It is just a piece of poorly screened wire.

 

[GSV Ethics Gradient]

More likely down to the driver unless he's put budget boots on his car.

You'd think that (quite understandably), but you'd be wrong. I know he's a competent driver, but different tyres do behave differently in the wet and when cold, sometimes massively differently*. This assumes that one is 'pressing on' somewhat (if you are just pootling to the shops it hardly matters what you have on the car), and it's lateral grip/turn-in that I mean in particular.

*From personal experience over the years, high performance Michelin and Goodyear tyres are much less affected than Pirelli, Continental etc.

 

[GSV Ethics Gradient]

i agree regarding mf and build quality. i owned an m6i integrated and the top panel of the case work made a horrible rattle noise if tapped even lightly.
it just did not seem (or sound) like a 2.5k piece of kit...

i bet the heavier a308 cd player would actually be better than the later released m6scd due to the weight and hence damping it has.

The CD has never rattled, mercifully. I have seen inside a 308CD, and whilst the casework is a little heavier, the transport looks very similar to mine - and it's adding here that's been the big gain. I'd be hopeful to see the old stager off in performance, but who knows, eh?

 

[simonali]

I had a well used HDMI cable connected up between the OPPO 203 and my LG OLED.

Why not use the one that came with the player?

 

[Deleted member 188516]

When a HiFi salesperson, who isn't involved in the pushing and selling of boutique cables, recommends not spending your money on such cables, I'd say it more than adds weight. It's more along the lines of:
/thread

i agree as i dont believe in expensive "boutique" cables either...

i was just wondering why / how he has come to this conclusion and hence offers this advice !

 

[Deleted member 188516]

The CD has never rattled, mercifully. I have seen inside a 308CD, and whilst the casework is a little heavier, the transport looks very similar to mine - and it's adding here that's been the big gain. I'd be hopeful to see the old stager off in performance, but who knows, eh?

i believe the m6 series was just a rehash of the units you own - very little difference with the components / design but, as you have pointed out, lighter and i would guess less expensive to manufacture casework.

i believe musical fidelity started to "cut corners" once production was moved from england. all the items produced suddenly seemed cheaper in build quality in my opinion - only the top of the range kit remained manufactured in the u.k.

i believe even the current range topping nu-vista 800 kit is no longer made here either...

 

[Deleted member 188516]

It is just a piece of poorly screened wire.

would a properly screened piece of wire perform better than the freebie cable ?

 

[M42TYN]

Why not use the one that came with the player?

Should have said - that was the original cable that didn't work before I went looking for others