Throwing the cable cat amongst the pigeons!

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12th Monkey

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Aug 31, 2015
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so basically you matched your speaker cable to the cable present internally in your speakers - synergy !

i would keep your speakers if happy with your system - a lot of sideways steps in this hifi game...

you seem to be open minded enough to experiment with tweaks (lead weights etc) so i would explore more of those as they often are a lot cheaper than full scale hardware changes !
Not sure I dare report that I've added more weight to the CD!
 

plus 1

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Not sure I dare report that I've added more weight to the CD!
i would not worry what others think - its your system.

i'm guessing the more weight added has increased the damping of the case work of your cd player further.

check out the yamaha a-s3200 product page. lots of emphasis on internal damping and better internal cabling !
 

Mike Hunt

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Jan 22, 2020
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yes - care to elaborate ?!
Sure...
Yes, it's nonsense. If it wasn't nonsense, the speaker manufacturer would have used 'better' cable.
Do you think speaker manufacturers want their speakers to sound bad? Or do you think they don't know what they're doing? Or is it more likely that they know exactly what they're doing, and they know that spending more money on the wiring in their £10k speakers will make zero difference? Do you think they're trying to scrimp on cost, when 10p worth of wire would make their £10k speakers sound better?
 

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Sure...
Yes, it's nonsense. If it wasn't nonsense, the speaker manufacturer would have used 'better' cable.
Do you think speaker manufacturers want their speakers to sound bad? Or do you think they don't know what they're doing? Or is it more likely that they know exactly what they're doing, and they know that spending more money on the wiring in their £10k speakers will make zero difference? Do you think they're trying to scrimp on cost, when 10p worth of wire would make their £10k speakers sound better?
one of the differences between the bowers and wilkins 600 and 700 hundred series is the use of better internal wiring.

this has a positive effect on performance as confirmed by a staff member i contacted at bowers and wilkins.

if this was nonsense i dont think they would bother...

this "tweak" was also pointed out to me by someone i sold some kit (amplifier) to years ago when he asked what speakers i owned (b&w 601 s2 at the time).

he advised (right or wrong) that by changing the internal wiring you could turn these speakers from a 2/10 to a 8/10 rating - all in his opinion of course.

its not something i have or am ever likely to try but going back to what i have stated from my communication with bowers and wilkins and what can be read on the yamaha (a-s3200) product pages it seems different (better ?) internal wiring can change and possibly improve a components sound...
 

12th Monkey

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Reminds me of the issue with car tyres - I know it's far from a direct comparison but you'd assume car companies would usually specify the best tyres for the job, but they don't. They have alliances with manufacturers and doubtless it makes economic sense (obviously no parallel in that there's no freebie wire manufacturer making a profit in cahoots). Now all tyres 'work', but the difference between good and bad is significant - there are many group tests undertaken each year. I have a friend whose car is like mine in many respects (4wd, front-engine, powerful) and whilst mine is pretty much unaffected by rain/cold, his becomes a complete liability. This is not down to the car, it's down to the choice of tyres the manufacturer made.
 
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plus 1

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Reminds me of the issue with car tyres - I know it's far from a direct comparison but you'd assume car companies would usually specify the best tyres for the job, but they don't. They have alliances with manufacturers and doubtless it makes economic sense (obviously no parallel in that there's no freebie wire manufacturer making a profit in cahoots). Now all tyres 'work', but the difference between good and bad is significant - there are many group tests undertaken each year. I have a friend whose car is like mine in many respects (4wd, front-engine, powerful) and whilst mine is pretty much unaffected by rain/cold, his becomes a complete liability. This is not down to the car, it's down to the choice of tyres the manufacturer made.

exactly just like how some speaker (and amplifier) companies choose to use better quality cabling and some dont.

its similar to how you have discovered with your cd player that adding weight(s) and damping the components case work has brought sonic benefits where as yamaha and marantz, for example, already look into this aspect and include these features in their designs.

(my old sony cdp xb930e uk tuned was like a brick !)

overall it just depends on what areas a manufacturer decides to spend the budget on when designing kit at the end of the day.

all areas can effect the sound of a component in varying different levels.

just take a look at what goes into the design of "cost no object" hifi kit if you want to judge the effects of whether internal wire quality and damping components is a myth.

(cad / computer audio design and msb are 2 other ultra high end companies that i have contacted and have confirmed this to me to...)
 

TrevC

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Jun 12, 2013
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so basically you matched your speaker cable to the cable present internally in your speakers - synergy !
Synergy is nonsense,. The last thing you want to do is match your cables to the thin stuff inside. While a few cm of slightly resistive wire won't result in much of a loss of signal 5 metres of it certainly will.
 

12th Monkey

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Aug 31, 2015
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its similar to how you have discovered with your cd player that adding weight(s) and damping the components case work has brought sonic benefits where as yamaha and marantz, for example, already look into this aspect and include these features in their designs.
I think MF does this to some degree, but the M series gear is not as heavy as the equivalent A308 that preceded it - the 308 pre weighs about 20kgs, the 308 power is 25kgs and the CD was 16kgs. The M6S CD is still fairly hefty at 12kgs, but I think the company has taken its eye off the ball a little in build quality terms.
 

DougK

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Dec 8, 2013
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I have a friend whose car is like mine in many respects (4wd, front-engine, powerful) and whilst mine is pretty much unaffected by rain/cold, his becomes a complete liability. This is not down to the car, it's down to the choice of tyres the manufacturer made.
More likely down to the driver unless he's put budget boots on his car.
 

plus 1

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I think MF does this to some degree, but the M series gear is not as heavy as the equivalent A308 that preceded it - the 308 pre weighs about 20kgs, the 308 power is 25kgs and the CD was 16kgs. The M6S CD is still fairly hefty at 12kgs, but I think the company has taken its eye off the ball a little in build quality terms.
i agree regarding mf and build quality. i owned an m6i integrated and the top panel of the case work made a horrible rattle noise if tapped even lightly.
it just did not seem (or sound) like a 2.5k piece of kit...

i bet the heavier a308 cd player would actually be better than the later released m6scd due to the weight and hence damping it has.

also there was not a great deal inside the actual unit (m6i) when looking at similar priced designs by marantz and yamaha.
 
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plus 1

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Dec 5, 2019
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I am content with using and recommending basic interconnects and speaker cables.

Plug, play, forget and save your money.

Keep it simple. Simple is best.
thanks for the reply but my question was have you used and hence have experience of other (silly high priced) interconnect and speaker cables and how did you find them ?

i'll add i like your honest advice regarding cable choices as, coming from actual hifi dealer, it has more weight.
 

MUSICRAFT

Well-known member
thanks for the reply but my question was have you used and hence have experience of other (silly high priced) interconnect and speaker cables and how did you find them ?

i'll add i like your honest advice regarding cable choices as, coming from actual hifi dealer, it has more weight.
You’re welcome and thanks.

I feel I’ve responded accordingly as my answer lies within.
 
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Mike Hunt

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Jan 22, 2020
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thanks for the reply but my question was have you used and hence have experience of other (silly high priced) interconnect and speaker cables and how did you find them ?

i'll add i like your honest advice regarding cable choices as, coming from actual hifi dealer, it has more weight.
When a HiFi salesperson, who isn't involved in the pushing and selling of boutique cables, recommends not spending your money on such cables, I'd say it more than adds weight. It's more along the lines of:
/thread
 

12th Monkey

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More likely down to the driver unless he's put budget boots on his car.
You'd think that (quite understandably), but you'd be wrong. I know he's a competent driver, but different tyres do behave differently in the wet and when cold, sometimes massively differently*. This assumes that one is 'pressing on' somewhat (if you are just pootling to the shops it hardly matters what you have on the car), and it's lateral grip/turn-in that I mean in particular.

*From personal experience over the years, high performance Michelin and Goodyear tyres are much less affected than Pirelli, Continental etc.
 
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12th Monkey

Well-known member
Aug 31, 2015
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i agree regarding mf and build quality. i owned an m6i integrated and the top panel of the case work made a horrible rattle noise if tapped even lightly.
it just did not seem (or sound) like a 2.5k piece of kit...

i bet the heavier a308 cd player would actually be better than the later released m6scd due to the weight and hence damping it has.
The CD has never rattled, mercifully. I have seen inside a 308CD, and whilst the casework is a little heavier, the transport looks very similar to mine - and it's adding here that's been the big gain. I'd be hopeful to see the old stager off in performance, but who knows, eh?
 

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