Throwing the cable cat amongst the pigeons!

[Deleted member 188516]

When a HiFi salesperson, who isn't involved in the pushing and selling of boutique cables, recommends not spending your money on such cables, I'd say it more than adds weight. It's more along the lines of:
/thread

i agree as i dont believe in expensive "boutique" cables either...

i was just wondering why / how he has come to this conclusion and hence offers this advice !

 

[Deleted member 188516]

The CD has never rattled, mercifully. I have seen inside a 308CD, and whilst the casework is a little heavier, the transport looks very similar to mine - and it's adding here that's been the big gain. I'd be hopeful to see the old stager off in performance, but who knows, eh?

i believe the m6 series was just a rehash of the units you own - very little difference with the components / design but, as you have pointed out, lighter and i would guess less expensive to manufacture casework.

i believe musical fidelity started to "cut corners" once production was moved from england. all the items produced suddenly seemed cheaper in build quality in my opinion - only the top of the range kit remained manufactured in the u.k.

i believe even the current range topping nu-vista 800 kit is no longer made here either...

 

[Deleted member 188516]

It is just a piece of poorly screened wire.

would a properly screened piece of wire perform better than the freebie cable ?

 

[M42TYN]

Why not use the one that came with the player?

Should have said - that was the original cable that didn't work before I went looking for others

 

[GSV Ethics Gradient]

i believe musical fidelity started to "cut corners" once production was moved from england. all the items produced suddenly seemed cheaper in build quality in my opinion - only the top of the range kit remained manufactured in the u.k.

Seems to be a commonly-held view. A pity.

 

[TrevC]

would a properly screened piece of wire perform better than the freebie cable ?

If you remember, it was the freebie cable that was properly screened.

 

[Deleted member 188516]

Seems to be a commonly-held view. A pity.

i agree.

i owned an x-ray cd player and xa-2 amplifier, both made in england, and solid build like bricks !

i believe they were the last of the "budget" units they made in england. the x-ray mk2 had buttons that fell off and sounded worse i have read...

 

[Deleted member 188516]

If you remember, it was the freebie cable that was properly screened.

i thought you were referring to a van den hul model you had ?

 

[Mike Hunt]

I was sat here thinking "Hmmm, I must have something lying around the house, something that requires cables with close to zero attenuation, linear phase across all frequencies, noise immunity, and sufficient bandwidth, in order to achieve absolute signal fidelity, to display a true reading from its source". Then it suddenly dawned on me. I do have such a thing. I have a Tektronix oscilloscope. I'm pretty sure that fits the description.

I know it's impossible to make a perfect cable, but perhaps I should have a word with Tektronix, as this is one of the ridiculously inadequate 'interconnects' they supply for their very expensive oscilloscopes.


There's not a bit of silver in sight. Not even cryogenically treated directional copper! And look at the pathetic diameter of that lead. It's 3.5mm, including insulation!
What's the world coming to, when one of the best oscilloscope manufacturers on the planet can't even make a decent probe!

 

[Deleted member 188516]

I was sat here thinking "Hmmm, I must have something lying around the house, something that requires cables with close to zero attenuation, linear phase across all frequencies, noise immunity, and sufficient bandwidth, in order to achieve absolute signal fidelity, to display a true reading from its source". Then it suddenly dawned on me. I do have such a thing. I have a Tektronix oscilloscope. I'm pretty sure that fits the description.

I know it's impossible to make a perfect cable, but perhaps I should have a word with Tektronix, as this is one of the ridiculously inadequate 'interconnects' they supply for their very expensive oscilloscopes.

View attachment 1116
There's not a bit of silver in sight. Not even cryogenically treated directional copper! And look at the pathetic diameter of that lead. It's 3.5mm, including insulation!
What's the world coming to, when one of the best oscilloscope manufacturers on the planet can't even make a decent probe!

but could that cable be improved ?!

 

[Mike Hunt]

but could that cable be improved ?!

To what end? It replicates the source signal as close to perfect as makes no difference. By its very nature, it's necessary that an oscilloscope's probe can achieve this, and if Tektronix were supplying probes (which are essentially interconnects), that didn't achieve this, their customers would soon go elsewhere.

 

[Al ears]

but could that cable be improved ?!

I an sure Russ Andrews could sort it.

 

[Al ears]

To what end? It replicates the source signal as close to perfect as makes no difference. By its very nature, it's necessary that an oscilloscope's probe can achieve this, and if Tektronix were supplying probes (which are essentially interconnects), that didn't achieve this, their customers would soon go elsewhere.

I think that was said in jest, could be wrong.

 

[Mike Hunt]

I think that was said in jest, could be wrong.

It's sometimes hard to know whether someone is being serious or jesting, where cables are concerned

 

[Deleted member 188516]

I think that was said in jest, could be wrong.

it was, guilty !

 

[Deleted member 188516]

I an sure Russ Andrews could sort it.

russ andrews gave us the dde-1...that commands respect !

 

[Al ears]

It's sometimes hard to know whether someone is being serious or jesting, where cables are concerned

You're not wrong there. Try to avoid cable threads as people always tend to think I am taking the p#ss

 

[MUSICRAFT]

so you have never used / tried some of the more exotic / pricier cables on the market ?

Like i said I feel I’ve responded accordingly

Btw, some pics. of the basic 79 strand speaker cables i am using. You'll also see the basic mains cable connected to the amp

 

[davidf]

I know it's impossible to make a perfect cable...

If all cables supposedly sound the same, aren’t they all “perfect”? Or are all current cables insufficient in some way? And if so, does that mean there’s room for improvement?

 

[Roby]

So seems a few years later an the debate is still the same

To be honest I was always a bit septic I mean why is a cable of 1000€/M better than the one of 100€/M

I mean 100€/M its already madness don't you think? Then came the day I went to the shop whit a friend who was considering 8K Sonus Faber book shelfs don't recall the model

But at first I didn't really enjoyed the sound my impression was flat, life less an muffled... than the dealer switched the speaker cable to Linn
An hey there was the spark

My first question was how can a cable make so much difference....

Than came the day I sold my B&W 683 (Beautiful sounding speaker an a good match with my AMS35I)
Because I god a nice deal on my Avalon's

Than I was thinkingI should at least test some cables

So spook to My dealer asking for his advice, an I agree he very well know what he is doing... he said you know what take that box an test as long as you need bring back what you eliminate but at least try each cable for a week to have a good opinion.

The box was heavy as hell inside:
ah
Siltech
Kimber
Shunyata
MIT
Transperant
Linn

I'm not going to talk about theme all, it was to long ago...

But I tell you one thing every cable works. Are they the same or sound the same never!!! I mean a Siltech for example has a silver alliance how can it possibly sound the same as a coper one...

Beside that it's subjective, what do you like what make your feet tapping an do you enjoy the most? An yes, are you willing to spill the money for that feeling? Thats totally up to you an where you draw the line for your self

Nobody can be the judge of that.

People might think it's crazy but in that optic there will always be crazier aswel as people ho will defend that same choice


For me per example I loved the Siltech crispy an lively sound but I noticed at the end of the day I had to turn the volume down my ears got tiered. (Kimber for example was to attacking in my system An Shunyata to soft an loomy)

The transparent where the closest to the Siltech but take that little tiering edge of, an make you want to keep listening at the end of the day for a few more tracks

So don't tell me cable sound the same, it's far from true

That you got the feeling you are looking for, that happy with a freeby, or are willing to break the bank or something in between its totally your choice.

An FYI I've gone to the same proces with RCA's

I mean took me 3Y to build my set an didn't change anything for 4 years. Really enjoyed the hunt if I can call it so but had other tings to do an yes well was not sure I wanted to spend mor money on that set I love.

Confinement made me listen a lot again so it made me enjoy an rediscover my music

Provably the reason I'm only looking for some small changes now. Like the power strip I'm waiting for
Well didn't expect to buy it now even if I always planned to do that some day

An yes thats also a wire topic

But will not change the big ones AMP /speakers /phonostage an syncro/ TT will stayas well as speaker cable an RCA stays for sure

Just know I started to enjoy my music collection again an like to share my experience an maybe it helps some one well that would be great


You might agree or not

Roby

 

[Al ears]

So seems a few years later an the debate is still the same

To be honest I was always a bit septic I mean why is a cable of 1000€/M better than the one of 100€/M

I mean 100€/M its already madness don't you think? Then came the day I went to the shop whit a friend who was considering 8K Sonus Faber book shelfs don't recall the model

But at first I didn't really enjoyed the sound my impression was flat, life less an muffled... than the dealer switched the speaker cable to Linn
An hey there was the spark

My first question was how can a cable make so much difference....

Than came the day I sold my B&W 683 (Beautiful sounding speaker an a good match with my AMS35I)
Because I god a nice deal on my Avalon's

Than I was thinkingI should at least test some cables

My dealer an I agree he very well know what he is doing... he said you know what take that box an test as long as you need bring back what you eliminate but at least try each cable for a week to have a good opinion.

The box was heavy as hell inside:
ah
Siltech
Kimber
Shunyata
MIT
Transperant
Linn

I'm not going to talk about theme all it was to long ago...

But I tell you one thing every cable works. are the the same or sound the same never I mean a Siltech for example has a silver alliance how can it possibly sound the same as a coper one...

Beside that it's subjective, what do you like what make your feet tapping an do you enjoy the most an are you willing to spill the money for that feeling? Thats totally up to you an where you draw the line for your self

nobody can be the judge of that

People might think it's crazy but but in that optic there will always be crazier aswel as people ho will deffend that same choice


For me per example I loved the Siltech crispy an lively sound but I noticed at the end of the day I had to turn the volume down my ears got tiered. (Kimber for example was to attacking in my systemAn Shunyata to soft an loomy)

The transparent where the closes to the Siltech but take that little tiering edge of that make you want to keep listening at the end of the day for a few more tracks

So don't tell me cable sound the same, it's far from true

That you gat the feeling you are looking for an happy with a freeby, or are willing to break the bank or something in between its totally your choice.

An FYI I've gone to the same proces with RCA's

I mean took me 3Y to build an didn't change anything for 4 years an only know I'm looking for some changes
But not the big ones AMP /speakers /phonostage an syncro/ TT will stayas well as speaker cable an RCA

Just know I started to enjoy my music collection again an like to share my experience an maybe it helps some one well that would be great


You might agree or not

Roby

I think I would agree. Back in the day I had some cheapish Chord cables in my system. When I found the speakers I had been looking for for a good while the chap I bought them from threw in his speaker cables that were from the same manufacturer as the speakers ( Acoustic Zen), when I used these the difference was quite notable hence all my loom is now Acoustic Zen, and most of those on the cheap.
I am now happy with my lot and have no intention of spending more / looking further as I have better things to spend my money on.....

 

[Mike Hunt]

If all cables supposedly sound the same, aren’t they all “perfect”? Or are all current cables insufficient in some way? And if so, does that mean there’s room for improvement?

Because something isn't perfect, doesn't mean its imperfections can or should be analysed using the human ear. The human ear is the worst measurement instrument imaginable, because it's connected to a fallible human.

 

[abacus]

If cables do make a difference the dealer should know about it, so why did they use poor quality cables instead of using the Linn from the outset? The answer is simple, you saw the name Linn on the cables and this automatically put you in the frame of mind that this must be better, whereas in reality if you had done a double blind test you would not have heard any difference.

Anyone that says they heard a difference in cables (That were of good quality) without measuring the levels and comparing them in a double blind test has no meaning and so should not be believed as fact, as an opinion yes, but as a fact, no way.

Consider this, professional equipment makes even high end Hi-Fi sound naff and they don’t use any special cables, (They just buy in bulk for the best price) which proves how nonsensical that cables alter the sound is. (In fact only a very small number of Hi-Fi nuts believe different good quality cables make a difference (And nobody in the professional world does) which once again proves how nonsensical the claims are)

Now if somebody could provide verifiable scientific evidence that different good quality cables make a difference, then all professionals would use them, however as no verifiable evidence has ever been provided, (Which is why a lot of Hi-Fi cable manufactures have been pulled up by the ASA for the claims they make) it’s a pointless argument anyway.

Bill

 

[Roby]

It's your opinion an I respect it;

In the meanwhile I don't know you; But this mean you know it better than Slash?

Because I read in an interview he sometimes uses a different cable to obtain a a different sound .......

 

[Mike Hunt]

If cables do make a difference the dealer should know about it, so why did they use poor quality cables instead of using the Linn from the outset? The answer is simple, you saw the name Linn on the cables and this automatically put you in the frame of mind that this must be better, whereas in reality if you had done a double blind test you would not have heard any difference.

Anyone that says they heard a difference in cables (That were of good quality) without measuring the levels and comparing them in a double blind test has no meaning and so should not be believed as fact, as an opinion yes, but as a fact, no way.

Consider this, professional equipment makes even high end Hi-Fi sound naff and they don’t use any special cables, (They just buy in bulk for the best price) which proves how nonsensical that cables alter the sound is. (In fact only a very small number of Hi-Fi nuts believe different good quality cables make a difference (And nobody in the professional world does) which once again proves how nonsensical the claims are)

Now if somebody could provide verifiable scientific evidence that different good quality cables make a difference, then all professionals would use them, however as no verifiable evidence has ever been provided, (Which is why a lot of Hi-Fi cable manufactures have been pulled up by the ASA for the claims they make) it’s a pointless argument anyway.

Bill

I 'liked' your post, because it's mostly factually correct, but cables can "sound different". I put that in quotes because cables don't sound of anything, or make any sound, but badly designed cables can alter the sound that arrives at your ears.
There are three important factors in speaker cable construction. Impedance, inductance and capacitance
I've tested lots of different cables. I've mic'd speakers and used a frequency sweep to analyse and compare their output, and one thing that shocked me was that a set of cables I used with ridiculously high capacitance, sounded better (to my ear) whilst listening to music. When I compared the results on the computer, these cables seemed to accentuate some of the higher frequencies. If I'd believed my ears, I would have said these cables were better, when, in fact, they were shyte.