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When should you upgrade your hi-fi? How to control ‘upgradeitis’
bigboss
Moderator
I Like others i suspect have my own thoughts, at the end of the day HDMI opinions will never go away people will say there is a difference and others wont, i have had QED-HDMI-P for a long time few years now cost a tenner each, and i am happy with what i have, i personally would not go out and spend 200quid for an HDMI because i dont think there would be 190qiuds worth of improvement, not on short runs anyway, the QED was on offer at the time so got a good deal, but had they been 30-pounds i would have still paid that amount, Why because they are well made and i like QED cables, others like Chord,monster etc, others will buy based on reviews and not just this site or mag, who am i to say that reviews of HDMI cables are not true or even biased as some have stated, if a review of a cable costing 80 100 150+ and had got excellent feed back i would not rush out and buy it because that is my choice, but i do like to read reviews on any cable for that matter, and WHFSAV or any other mag/site say a cable is good thats fine by me. I have bought speaker/interconnects based on reviews from WHSAV
i am sure that others will have opinions or even question my thoughts, :twisted:but that is ok this is what makes good reading on forums, and i have to say it is entertaining.
As for the HDMI the facts report i thought it was an interesting read, the bottom line i think IMO is HDMI will never go away in terms of do they make a difference, which is good i think. Isnt it.... :?
Any way i am off down to my bunker now to take shelter...
i am sure that others will have opinions or even question my thoughts, :twisted:but that is ok this is what makes good reading on forums, and i have to say it is entertaining.
As for the HDMI the facts report i thought it was an interesting read, the bottom line i think IMO is HDMI will never go away in terms of do they make a difference, which is good i think. Isnt it.... :?
Any way i am off down to my bunker now to take shelter...
Here is another reportwhich shows (A) a HDMI either works or its does not* (B) length matters and (C) high price does not necessarily mean better quality then lower price.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20056502-1/why-all-hdmi-cables-are-the-same/
Then there have been various blind comparison tests, where the results are consistent. Not knowing what cable is being used means cheap is as likely to do as well as, if not better than expensive and the larger differences which are reported during sighted tests get smaller or even disappear.
http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/home-entertainment/1282699/hdmi-investigated-are-expensive-cables-a-scam/3
WHF did a blind comparison test in July 2010 which found that a freebie cable was better than one by Chord at £75 and as good as one by QED at £150.
Then a French test found only one out of nine could report any difference at all. One preferrend a Blelkin cable which was the mid priced one in the test.
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lesnumeriques.com%2Fblind-tests-avec-deux-jurys-experts-et-lecteurs-p770_6175_93.html
It is hard to see the value in a high priced HDMI cable and the science presented by some HDMI companies is more fluff than substance. I would love to see HDMI cables submitted for rigourous testing at a university's electrical or accoustic engineering lab. It seems odd that despite the scientific claims, no cable is endorsed by any independent testing body (that I can find anyway).
* That means the picture is either fine, or it has started to break up, pixelate or show lines.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20056502-1/why-all-hdmi-cables-are-the-same/
Then there have been various blind comparison tests, where the results are consistent. Not knowing what cable is being used means cheap is as likely to do as well as, if not better than expensive and the larger differences which are reported during sighted tests get smaller or even disappear.
http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/home-entertainment/1282699/hdmi-investigated-are-expensive-cables-a-scam/3
WHF did a blind comparison test in July 2010 which found that a freebie cable was better than one by Chord at £75 and as good as one by QED at £150.
Then a French test found only one out of nine could report any difference at all. One preferrend a Blelkin cable which was the mid priced one in the test.
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lesnumeriques.com%2Fblind-tests-avec-deux-jurys-experts-et-lecteurs-p770_6175_93.html
It is hard to see the value in a high priced HDMI cable and the science presented by some HDMI companies is more fluff than substance. I would love to see HDMI cables submitted for rigourous testing at a university's electrical or accoustic engineering lab. It seems odd that despite the scientific claims, no cable is endorsed by any independent testing body (that I can find anyway).
* That means the picture is either fine, or it has started to break up, pixelate or show lines.
6th.replicant
Well-known member
The Walking Dead said:
You know the old saying though?
"Nine out of ten quotes on the internet are false" - Abraham Lincoln
Finally, what could well become my insert of choice each time a post refuses to let go of the bone and let sleeping dogs lie (pardon the mixed metaphors)
Since the title mentions facts, here are two more tests and their conclusions
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-vs-hdmi
"To conclude then, it's fair to say that the advent of HDMI has effectively made the era of stupendously expensive AV cables with dubious-quality claims somewhat obsolete. That £1.50 (including delivery) cable from Amazon will do sterling work for your Xbox 360, PlayStation 3 or media PC - and if it is in some way not up to the job, you'll see it immediately in the form of obtrusive digital artifacting. Only if you're attempting some seriously long connections will a custom cable be required - and even then, the chances are there is an inexpensive version available that will do the job just fine."
http://www.audioholics.com/education/cables/long-hdmi-cable-bench-tests/hdmi-cable-testing-results
"Your take-away from all this should be the following:
[*]At lengths less than 4 meters you can just about use silly string (OK, not really) and get HDMI to pass at any current resolution. At less than 3 meters you'll even extend that to 12-bit color and possibly the next crazy idea HDMI Licensing decides to throw at consumers. Don't spend a lot on these cables and if you want to save money you won't let anyone at a big box store talk you into buying from them.[*]At long lengths (over 10 meters) you really need to pay attention to the manufacturer if you don't want to risk running into potential problems with 1080p and future formats such as Deep Color. With that said, just about any cable at or under 10 meters will pass 720p/1080i and nearly everyone will pass 1080p at 8-bit color as well.[*]If you have an existing HDMI cable and are running into problems, we'd suggest at least attempting the insertion of an active component at the sink (display) side. This is going to be far cheaper than ripping out your walls and re-running new cables - and likely just as effective.[*]HDMI has proven to be a moving target and there is no telling what crazy (likely unnecessary) format they will try to push down the cable next. Due to this, it's always good to "overbuild" your cable install, especially if it's a longer distance and going to end up behind drywall.[*]If you're not prone to upgraditis and think 1080p will be your maximum resolution for the life of your install, don't sweat it..."[/list]
That is why I bought a ThatCable HDMI off eBay for £6.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-vs-hdmi
"To conclude then, it's fair to say that the advent of HDMI has effectively made the era of stupendously expensive AV cables with dubious-quality claims somewhat obsolete. That £1.50 (including delivery) cable from Amazon will do sterling work for your Xbox 360, PlayStation 3 or media PC - and if it is in some way not up to the job, you'll see it immediately in the form of obtrusive digital artifacting. Only if you're attempting some seriously long connections will a custom cable be required - and even then, the chances are there is an inexpensive version available that will do the job just fine."
http://www.audioholics.com/education/cables/long-hdmi-cable-bench-tests/hdmi-cable-testing-results
"Your take-away from all this should be the following:
[*]At lengths less than 4 meters you can just about use silly string (OK, not really) and get HDMI to pass at any current resolution. At less than 3 meters you'll even extend that to 12-bit color and possibly the next crazy idea HDMI Licensing decides to throw at consumers. Don't spend a lot on these cables and if you want to save money you won't let anyone at a big box store talk you into buying from them.[*]At long lengths (over 10 meters) you really need to pay attention to the manufacturer if you don't want to risk running into potential problems with 1080p and future formats such as Deep Color. With that said, just about any cable at or under 10 meters will pass 720p/1080i and nearly everyone will pass 1080p at 8-bit color as well.[*]If you have an existing HDMI cable and are running into problems, we'd suggest at least attempting the insertion of an active component at the sink (display) side. This is going to be far cheaper than ripping out your walls and re-running new cables - and likely just as effective.[*]HDMI has proven to be a moving target and there is no telling what crazy (likely unnecessary) format they will try to push down the cable next. Due to this, it's always good to "overbuild" your cable install, especially if it's a longer distance and going to end up behind drywall.[*]If you're not prone to upgraditis and think 1080p will be your maximum resolution for the life of your install, don't sweat it..."[/list]
That is why I bought a ThatCable HDMI off eBay for £6.
I know that this is going to fall on deaf ears (ignorant eyes?) but after replacing one of my cheap HDMI cables with a far more expensive AudioQuest HDMI cable, I can safely say that it has definitely made a worthwhile improvement to the sound. I am unable to comment on picture, as I would need to change the cable out of my Processor to my Projector to judge that.
It is obvious that many people don't believe that cables can make a difference, but most of these people either don't have the equipment to benefit from the potential difference that 'better' cables can make, or have been led to believe that a difference is not possible and have therefore closed their minds to the possibilities. The fact is that if your equipment is not capable of revealing the difference in picture or sound quality that a cable can make, then you obviously are not going to see or hear one.
A similar thing could be said, for example, about adding an expensive DAC between a bog standard CD and Amp. While the DAC may be very capable of allowing a more faithfull 're-construction' of the source material (compared to the DAC in the CD Player) if one or more of the other components in that system is dragging everything else down, then you are not likely to notice much or any benefit. If you have a bottle-neck, you have to address it. Otherwise you are not likely to realise the potential benefits other changes can make, which will lead you to believe that such changes are pointless.
It is true that not all cables will make a difference. Also, a more expensive cable is not always a better cable. But trying to claim that differences in cables is all a load of rubbish, just because you have not seen or heard a difference for yourself, does not mean anything to those of us that have seen or heard it for ourselves.
If cables really didn't make any difference then there would be undeniable proof and threads like this would not exist.
Source: Experience and common sense.
It is obvious that many people don't believe that cables can make a difference, but most of these people either don't have the equipment to benefit from the potential difference that 'better' cables can make, or have been led to believe that a difference is not possible and have therefore closed their minds to the possibilities. The fact is that if your equipment is not capable of revealing the difference in picture or sound quality that a cable can make, then you obviously are not going to see or hear one.
A similar thing could be said, for example, about adding an expensive DAC between a bog standard CD and Amp. While the DAC may be very capable of allowing a more faithfull 're-construction' of the source material (compared to the DAC in the CD Player) if one or more of the other components in that system is dragging everything else down, then you are not likely to notice much or any benefit. If you have a bottle-neck, you have to address it. Otherwise you are not likely to realise the potential benefits other changes can make, which will lead you to believe that such changes are pointless.
It is true that not all cables will make a difference. Also, a more expensive cable is not always a better cable. But trying to claim that differences in cables is all a load of rubbish, just because you have not seen or heard a difference for yourself, does not mean anything to those of us that have seen or heard it for ourselves.
If cables really didn't make any difference then there would be undeniable proof and threads like this would not exist.
Source: Experience and common sense.
Paul.
Well-known member
Could you not just be happy with your purchase without starting another cyclical cable thread? You can't win you know. No one can...
Well excuse me all to hell!!!!
If I'm not allowed to post an opinion, then why is there a forum to begin with?
I am not here to try and win anything.
If I'm not allowed to post an opinion, then why is there a forum to begin with?
I am not here to try and win anything.
Alantiggger
Well-known member
BenLaw
Well-known member
CaptHowdy said:
No, but following your tub-thumping support for Ken Kreisel your bizarre thread resurrection in support of Audioquest does come less than a month after Frank Harvey announced it was carrying Audioquest.
Here we go. :wall:
I would not say something just for the sake of it. I purchased a cable 4 days ago. It has made a difference to the sound.
I would not say something just for the sake of it. I purchased a cable 4 days ago. It has made a difference to the sound.
maxflinn said:
Been there. Done that. Wore that t-shirt and seen them mesmerized... Just my guess though.
Advance Merry Christmas to all WHF forumers :dance:
I doubt if the results and opinions wil have much scientific basis. But CH4 (Shop Secrets) at 20:30hrs Monday 24th March may be worth a quick peek regarding the ongoing HDMI issues here!
You can hit me with all the facts and figures you want but I am not connecting my £4000 state of the art plasma tv to my £500 Blu ray player with a bloody £2 hdmi cable.
theflyingwasp said:
This one is a bit more expensive but gives reference results:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/AmazonBasics-High-Speed-Supports-Ethernet-Standard/dp/B003L1ZYYW/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1395171076&sr=8-3&keywords=hdmi+cable
Been using monster and audioquest for years and I will stick with them.cheapest cable I would consider would be the £25 audioquest pearl.
I would like to know how many people after spending £1000s of pounds on their system wether it be hifi or home cinema then made a point of buying the cheapest rubbish to connect it altogether with.
"I'm going to Peter Tysons tomorrow to buy my state of the art 4k TV then pop into poundland to buy my cables"
I DONT THINK SO!!!
"I'm going to Peter Tysons tomorrow to buy my state of the art 4k TV then pop into poundland to buy my cables"
I DONT THINK SO!!!
bigboss
Moderator
Just buy what you're comfortable with. I'm happy with my £5 and freebie HDMI cables connecting my system which includes the best TV available at the time, and a reasonable (in my opinion) AV system. I can understand why many people won't be comfortable with this. That's absolutely fine.
BenLaw
Well-known member
Nah I'm sorry I just don't get it .it would be like buying a black Hugo boss suit with pink flip flops.
bigboss
Moderator
theflyingwasp said:
Depends on whether you're looking for a performance improvement or status symbol. If performance improvement only, it costs less than £5 to check yourself the degree to which the sound and picture quality actually improve. I did the test, and ended up keeping the cheap cables. If you find performance improvement with your existing cables, it will establish your beliefs in them strongly.
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