The Devialet thread

[BigH]

I have just been playing those 2 Dave Brubeck and I did not notice much difference maybe the HD was a bit smoother and tigher and less harsh.

I did come across this you maybe interested in: Take Five - HD Digital Re-Mastered

This does seem to have a bit more body and depth but it maybe just louder?

 

[davedotco]

I have just been playing those 2 Dave Brubeck and I did not notice much difference maybe the HD was a bit smoother and tigher and less harsh.

I did come across this you maybe interested in: Take Five - HD Digital Re-Mastered

This does seem to have a bit more body and depth but it maybe just louder?

There are dozens of reissues of this Track and Album, some remastered some not. There are small differences to be heard but given that the 'original' is a two track recording made in 1959 it is difficult to see what could be done.

There is a tendency when 'remastering' to attempt to improve the SQ by some form of processing, this may explain the issues some people have with 'remastering', though I have no idea what was done in this case.

I suspect that the bass levels were adjusted though, ambient noises seem to be more noticeable but really it is all pretty small beer.

If you want a treat, give the live (bonus) tracks a play. Way better than the studio album in my view.

 

[CnoEvil]

There are dozens of reissues of this Track and Album, some remastered some not. There are small differences to be heard but given that the 'original' is a two track recording made in 1959 it is difficult to see what could be done.

There is a tendency when 'remastering' to attempt to improve the SQ by some form of processing, this may explain the issues some people have with 'remastering', though I have no idea what was done in this case.

I suspect that the bass levels were adjusted though, ambient noises seem to be more noticeable but really it is all pretty small beer.

If you want a treat, give the live (bonus) tracks a play. Way better than the studio album in my view.

I think this is the one I have, which sounds really good: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Time-Out-Dave-Brubeck-Quartet/dp/B000024F6I/ref=sr_1_6?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1383588741&sr=1-6&keywords=take+five+brubeck

 

[davedotco]

There are dozens of reissues of this Track and Album, some remastered some not. There are small differences to be heard but given that the 'original' is a two track recording made in 1959 it is difficult to see what could be done.

There is a tendency when 'remastering' to attempt to improve the SQ by some form of processing, this may explain the issues some people have with 'remastering', though I have no idea what was done in this case.

I suspect that the bass levels were adjusted though, ambient noises seem to be more noticeable but really it is all pretty small beer.

If you want a treat, give the live (bonus) tracks a play. Way better than the studio album in my view.

I think this is the one I have, which sounds really good: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Time-Out-Dave-Brubeck-Quartet/dp/B000024F6I/ref=sr_1_6?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1383588741&sr=1-6&keywords=take+five+brubeck

I think that is the 2009 remastered version I think.

I have been listening to the 'Legacy Edition' which appears to be the same 'version' as yours but has additional tracks recorded live at Newport Jazz.

I was not a big fan of Brubeck, mainly on the strength of that album which never really involved me, a popular album that I heard a lot, but, a bit meh.

The live recordings on the other hand are really vibrant and energetic, most enjoyable....... :dance:

 

[CnoEvil]

I think that is the 2009 remastered version I think.

It's the 1997 version.

 

[matt49]

FFS this is the Devialet thread!!!

OK, to get back on topic, I'm now listening to the 2009 remaster of Take Five on Spotify Premium through the Devialet streamed from AIR on PC via ethernet. (Nice!)

Sounds OK, if you like that kind of thing. I mean sonically it's fine, but as a piece of music it's so "iconic" as to be practically dead -- for me at least. I suspect it was always a bit too safe to be really interesting.

OK, please do get back to discussing the important businees of remasters and bitrates. :wall:

 

[CnoEvil]

FFS this is the Devialet thread!!!

OK, to get back on topic, I'm now listening to the 2009 remaster of Take Five on Spotify Premium through the Devialet streamed from AIR on PC via ethernet. (Nice!)

Sounds OK, if you like that kind of thing. I mean sonically it's fine, but as a piece of music it's so "iconic" as to be practically dead -- for me at least. I suspect it was always a bit too safe to be really interesting.

OK, please do get back to discussing the important businees of remasters and bitrates. :wall:

I blame DDC......he's a bad influence, you know! :twisted:

 

[matt49]

I blame DDC......he's a bad influence, you know! :twisted:

Don't I know it! If it wasn't for him, I might not have bought these ruddy awful Italian speakers! :boohoo:

 

[davedotco]

I think that is the 2009 remastered version I think.

It's the 1997 version.

See what I mean about different versions and trying to be sure what you are listening to....... :?

I have been listening to the 2009 Legacy issue, album artwork is the same except for a "Legacy Edition" logo in the bottom left hand corner.

The most interesting thing remains the contrast between the original (remastered or not) recording and the live recordings on disc 2.

@Matt.

I'm with you here, the 'original' might hve been iconic but it did little for me, the live recordings though are great, give them a try....... :dance:

 

[yyz67]

So back to Devialet amps.I have a question: are they really worth 5000-7000 EUR ($7000-$10000) vs. others a third to half that (e.g. NAD, W4S, etc)? If so, what specifically about them is work the extra coin?

Thanks!

 

[matt49]

So back to Devialet amps.I have a question: are they really worth 5000-7000 EUR ($7000-$10000) vs. others a third to half that (e.g. NAD, W4S, etc)? If so, what specifically about them is work the extra coin?

Thanks!

I haven't heard the other amps you mention, so I couldn't comment on how they compare to the Devialet.

When I was researching amps, I heard a range of kit from £1K up to about £8K, e.g. Naim, Linn, Leema, Primare, Musical Fidelity, Luxman, Accuphase, Pass Labs, Electrocompaniet, Krell, Lavardin, Cyrus, Rega, Audiolab, Croft. I'm pretty confident none of these sounded better than the Devialet, and I reckon the Devialet was the most transparent of all of them. It ended up as a shoot-out between the Devialet and a couple of Class A amps around the £5K to £8K range. Compared to these, the Devialet had the obvious advantages of an integral DAC, streaming, basic room correction, and the prospect of more programmable features to come. Oh and a nice remote control. I particularly liked the idea of connecting the Devialet direct to my NAS drive, so obviating the need for a separate streamer, and that's how I'm using it now.

I haven't regretted the decision. The Devialet continues to charm and impress. It has great refinement and awesome power. It drives my speakers very well; in fact I think it will drive pretty much anything within reason.

I hope that helps. If you get a chance for a direct comparison of the Devialet and NAD or W4S boxes, do please post your thoughts on this thread!

Matt

 

[matt49]

P.S. another box of similar format (i.e. digital inputs, DAC, pre- and power amps) is the Wadia Intuition 01, which sells for £7K here; an interesting comparison with the Devialet 170.

 

[yyz67]

...

Compared to these, the Devialet had the obvious advantages of an integral DAC, streaming, basic room correction, and the prospect of more programmable features to come.

...

I wasn't aware of basic room correction. Can you explain what it supports?

 

[matt49]

I wasn't aware of basic room correction. Can you explain what it supports?

Yes, the emphasis is on basic. It has configurable tone controls, which might be useful. It also has high- and low-pass filters, with configurable roll-off points and 4 different slopes. I find this useful for bass management.

Obvs you have to do your own frequency measurements. Devialet say that if you have complex requirements and can send them the measurements, they will configure a file for you.

:cheers:

Matt

 

[matt49]

I've only just seen Alan Sircom's review of the 170 in the October Hi-Fi+ (I'd promised my doctor I'd stay off the hi-fi mags, but I had a relapse this morning). His conclusion: the 170 is as "extraordinarily detailed and precise" as the D-Premier:

"Style, grace, power and brilliant performance in one discreet set of bathroom scales. Unless you are a rival, contemplating the decimation of your product line, what's not to like here? Very strongly recommended."

The only negative: yes, you guessed it, the poor range of the AIR wireless streaming.

 

[matt49]

Well, I've been doing some more comparison of digital sources, and the song remains the same.

For the last week or two I've been using the Synology NAS direct via USB into the Dev. Today I rigged up a modded Sonos again (via digital coax) for comparison's sake. (This one is the original Cullen mod, a unit I recently picked up second hand for not much more than the price of a new unmodded Sonos Connect.)

Is there any difference? I think I can hear just a touch more precision on the NAS/USB rig. The Sonos is very good, but in comparison to the NAS/USB it seems very faintly woolly. But the difference, if there is one, is pretty tiny.

Overall, I'm extremely happy with things as they are. The NAS/USB set-up is rock solid: it's all hard wired and doesn't go via the network, so no chance of drop-outs. The iPhone control app is good, though I'm sure it would be better on an iPad. Just a bit more real estate.

The Cremonas are also proving a joy to live with. They do classical music so realistically: by which I mean that instruments actually sound like real instruments. Jazz is also a lot of fun.

:cheers:

Matt

 

[yyz67]

Yes, the emphasis is on basic. It has configurable tone controls, which might be useful. It also has high- and low-pass filters, with configurable roll-off points and 4 different slopes. I find this useful for bass management.

Obvs you have to do your own frequency measurements. Devialet say that if you have complex requirements and can send them the measurements, they will configure a file for you.

Ahh. And I assume this is all done in the digital domain and that the combination of high/low pass filters can be used as notch filters to handle hot areas in the FR? Cool. I could see how with a mic + auto measurement and a target curve (ideally manually tweakable), they could support relatively automated room EQ correction in the future. Of course whether they really invest in that (and not just mention the possibility) remains to be seen.

Matt, do you measure using a simple SPL meter or a more sophisticated measuring system? And I imagine you manually defined the filters using the configurator?

Also, if anyone has experience with their customer support regarding this kind of personalized help, are they responsive?

Thanks!

 

[matt49]

Ahh. And I assume this is all done in the digital domain and that the combination of high/low pass filters can be used as notch filters to handle hot areas in the FR?

Yes, the filters and tone controls are in the DSP. And yes, you could combine the high and low pass filters in that way.

Cool. I could see how with a mic + auto measurement and a target curve (ideally manually tweakable), they could support relatively automated room EQ correction in the future. Of course whether they really invest in that (and not just mention the possibility) remains to be seen.

A good point. I've been assuming they'll develop the software to work with a third-party system, but who knows. At any rate they've committed to delivering this in some form or other in the next couple of years.

Matt, do you measure using a simple SPL meter or a more sophisticated measuring system? And I imagine you manually defined the filters using the configurator?

So far I've just been working with a basic SPL meter and my ears, and then, as you say, manually playing around with the configurator. It's really very easy to use.

Also, if anyone has experience with their customer support regarding this kind of personalized help, are they responsive?

All I know is that the couple of times I've emailed them, they've responded within 24 hrs.

 

[yyz67]

Thanks Matt!

Besides sonic advantages of Devialet, an integrated+DAC appeals to me much more than the whole headache of searching for a dac/pre/power (+speaker) combination with just the right "synergy" (for me I want a great sound without a perpetual search).

While the filters can be used to roughly compensate for the room, has anyone here used the filters to adjust to speaker differences (say when swapping out simply for fun or experimentation) and/or simulate a warmer tube amp etc?

 

[matt49]

Thanks Matt!

Besides sonic advantages of Devialet, an integrated+DAC appeals to me much more than the whole headache of searching for a dac/pre/power (+speaker) combination with just the right "synergy" (for me I want a great sound without a perpetual search).

While the filters can be used to roughly compensate for the room, has anyone here used the filters to adjust to speaker differences (say when swapping out simply for fun or experimentation) and/or simulate a warmer tube amp etc?

I should imagine that voicing a Devialet to sound like a valve amp would be quite a bit more complex than the current pretty crude filters and tone controls of the Dev are capable of. All the swapping out I've done has been of digital sources.

:cheers:

Matt

 

[yyz67]

I should imagine that voicing a Devialet to sound like a valve amp would be quite a bit more complex than the current pretty crude filters and tone controls of the Dev are capable of. All the swapping out I've done has been of digital sources.

Probably true... I was simply thinking in terms of simple freq. response adjustments.

But you bring up a good point about "sounding like a valve amp": it is possible to model valve amps digitally, and this is already being done in the electric guitar pre/pro world in (at least) two forms:

(1) DSP emulation of entire a preamp/amp circuits, e.g. Fractal Axe-Fx which literally models each valve, capacitor, choke, resistor, etc yielding desirable "organic" valve amp response/distortion characteristics

(2) Tone/impulse response matching (e.g. Kemper Profiling Amp).

So for those who totally accept digital, it is possible/likely that the next revolution will be digital simulation of other pres/amps. Of course music sources (with a wide range of frequencies and dynamics) may be much more revealing of subtle issues of the simulation than electric guitars (which are simply front end transcuders with no absolute reference), but the principles are the same so this is entirely possible.

 

[matt49]

There are other issues too, the predominence of ported enclosures (Cremona Auditors for example) means that the bass driver is completely unloaded at lower frequencies meaning that it can be easily overdriven mechanically and damaged. This can be often observed in some speakers as excessive and seemingly unrelated 'flapping' of the bass cone, this happens in all ported speakers to a degree and removing the sub bass can assist the bass driver immensley.

Having a programable hi pass filter is, in my view, very, very useful, be very interesting to hear how you get on.

You've also made me wonder what's been causing the bass flatulence. Because I didn't hear it on the 3 (?) occasions I demoed the Dev/Cremona combo, I assumed it must be a room problem: probably a combination of room modes and the resonance of my suspended wooden floors. But I wonder if the Dev was just overloading the bass drivers in the Cremonas.

I'm revisiting this question of flatulent bass because it's continued to irritate me on some music. It's pretty much confined to electric bass guitars. Using the Dev's high-pass filter does mitigate the problem to some extent, but doesn't completely remove it.

Having thought it might be room related, I put my SF Veneres into the system today in place of the Cremonas. They have the same sized mid-bass driver (though a different model, of course), but the Veneres have a slot port on the front, whereas the Cremonas have a rear port. Aside from all the other SQ differences (the Veneres are really nowhere near the Cremonas, esp. at the top end), the Veneres have no farty bass at all. So the finger of suspicion does point at the Dev overloading the Cremonas' rear-ported bass driver, as Dave suggested. Cue applause for Dave :clap:

The solution? Foam bungs. I'd tried half bungs before with little success, but today I went for the full bung option, and the bass driver stopped flapping completely. Job done. So now I can indulge in some nice heavy reggae, which I'd been avoiding.

Happy as I am with the Cremonas, especially now the bass is finally 'tuned', I really need to get back on the speaker demo trail. Maybe after Xmas.

:cheers:

Matt

 

[Macspur]

All interesting stuff Matt.

Is there a danger of losing textures elsewhere with the use of full bungs?

Mac

www.macsmusic.blogbubble.net

 

[matt49]

All interesting stuff Matt.

Is there a danger of losing textures elsewhere with the use of full bungs?

Mac

www.macsmusic.blogbubble.net

Yes, I fear so, and also some diminution of the 3D effect.

On the positive side, classical music (which makes up 80% of my listening) doesn't have those low frequencies, so I can listen without the bungs.

The other big plus is that I've established that it's not a room problem.

But it's certainly made me think I need to get back to demoing speakers and work towards a more permanent set-up.

Cheers

Matt

 

[quad2905]

It is my understanding indeed: they don't behave like your average ESL. Actually there is a Devialet - Quad owner on the forum (whose name escapes me; he has a D1 and 2905s), who is over the moon with this combo.

I never heard them work together, but it must be spellbinding!

Indeed - still haven't come back from the far side of the moon, even after a year. The combination still surprises me, but never in a way that interferes with the music!

It's as if the D1 takes the natural characteristics of the 2905s (openness, clarity, coherence, holography) and doubles them.