The Devialet thread

[DocG]

... it should now be possible to use the Dev without a laptop turned on ...

Yep, it works.

As Rousseau said, 'Man is born free but everywhere he is chained to his laptop'. Not any more, Jean-Jacques!

:cheers:

Oh dear, I even failed to make the laptop play thru USB yesterday. All looks well on the Dev side (on the display the USB input is white, not orange, so it's supposed to be connected), but I can't make the laptop send data to the DAC. Do I miss anything? Some driver that must be installed first? Any tips for a computer dummy?

 

[matt49]

... it should now be possible to use the Dev without a laptop turned on ...

Yep, it works.

As Rousseau said, 'Man is born free but everywhere he is chained to his laptop'. Not any more, Jean-Jacques!

:cheers:

Oh dear, I even failed to make the laptop play thru USB yesterday. All looks well on the Dev side (on the display the USB input is white, not orange, so it's supposed to be connected), but I can't make the laptop send data to the DAC. Do I miss anything? Some driver that must be installed first? Any tips for a computer dummy?

I'm sure you'll have checked whether AIR is enabled.

What OS are you using: Windows or Apple? If Windows, then I thought I read somewhere that you need to install a special USB driver, but I now can't find the source of that. Maybe I've misremembered.

You could also check your laptop's sound settiings to make sure Devialet is selected as the default device. It'll probably appear in the sound settings as 'USB speakers'.

Beyond that I can't offer anything.

:cheers:

Matt

 

[DocG]

... it should now be possible to use the Dev without a laptop turned on ...

Yep, it works.

As Rousseau said, 'Man is born free but everywhere he is chained to his laptop'. Not any more, Jean-Jacques!

:cheers:

Oh dear, I even failed to make the laptop play thru USB yesterday. All looks well on the Dev side (on the display the USB input is white, not orange, so it's supposed to be connected), but I can't make the laptop send data to the DAC. Do I miss anything? Some driver that must be installed first? Any tips for a computer dummy?

I'm sure you'll have checked whether AIR is enabled.

So you need AIR for playing thru USB too?

What OS are you using: Windows or Apple? If Windows, then I thought I read somewhere that you need to install a special USB driver, but I now can't find the source of that. Maybe I've misremembered.

it is a Windows computer. But I can't find anything about drivers on the Devialet website.

You could also check your laptop's sound settiings to make sure Devialet is selected as the default device. It'll probably appear in the sound settings as 'USB speakers'.

i'll check that out. Thanks.

If I still can't get it going, I'll contact my dealer.

:cheers:

 

[matt49]

So you need AIR for playing thru USB too?

No, you don't. Silly of me. Wasn't thinking.

I just went into a complete meltdown: I lost contact with my NAS over the home network. Argh! Spent half an hour fiddling, including a manual reset of the NAS. So having earlier succeeded in piping the NAS directly into the Dev, and feeling pretty pleased with myself, I was now cursing the very idea of it.

It turns out I'd accidentally unplugged the ethernet cable that connects the NAS to the network. :doh:

Computers: dontcha just love 'em.

 

[davedotco]

Oh dear guys, this is not impressing me.

I am perfectly happy spending some time setting up a system but your issues would be driving me to distraction.

I think I might be taking my own advice and buying a Marantz........ 😉

Still keep going, think of yourselves as intrepid explorers beating you way into a third world country, or france as I like to call it.

 

[matt49]

Oh dear guys, this is not impressing me.

I am perfectly happy spending some time setting up a system but your issues would be driving me to distraction.

I think I might be taking my own advice and buying a Marantz........ 😉

Still keep going, think of yourselves as intrepid explorers beating you way into a third world country, or france as I like to call it.

To be fair, I have only my own absent-mindedness to blame. Less intrepid explorer than cack-handed bungler. The NAS via USB set-up is in fact very simple and, assuming some fool doesn't unplug the ethernet cables, suffers no drop-outs.

Once I've run this for a couple of weeks and am completely happy with it, I might invest in an old-model iPad Mini for use as remote control. For the moment the iPhone works fine, but the screen's a bit small for the Audio Station GUI.

 

[CnoEvil]

@Doc

Would you be interested in some Apogee Speakers that are selling (used) for about £500 (I think), form one of my dealers. I think he said they were worth about £1500, but I can easily check, if they are of any interest (as a stop gap?).

Let me know if you want further info......if not, it's no harm done. I just thought they might be up your alley.

 

[DocG]

@Doc

Would you be interested in some Apogee Speakers that are selling (used) for about £500 (I think), form one of my dealers. I think he said they were worth about £1500, but I can easily check, if they are of any interest (as a stop gap?).

Let me know if you want further info......if not, it's no harm done. I just thought they might be up your alley.

Hi Cno,

Do you mean these Australian ribbon speakers? I'm afraid we couldn't accomodate them in our current house. Moreover, Mrs. DocG is not into stop-gap solutions (she was quite upset that I replaced my DacMagic after no more than 3 years' use. So I now use it in my office...).

I would certainly be interested to hear what they sound like, though. Did you get to hear them?

:cheers:

 

[CnoEvil]

@Doc

Would you be interested in some Apogee Speakers that are selling (used) for about £500 (I think), form one of my dealers. I think he said they were worth about £1500, but I can easily check, if they are of any interest (as a stop gap?).

Let me know if you want further info......if not, it's no harm done. I just thought they might be up your alley.

Hi Cno,

Do you mean these Australian ribbon speakers? I'm afraid we couldn't accomodate them in our current house. Moreover, Mrs. DocG is not into stop-gap solutions (she was quite upset that I replaced my DacMagic after no more than 3 years' use. So I now use it in my office...).

I would certainly be interested to hear what they sound like, though. Did you get to hear them?

:cheers:

Yes, but what I saw was quite compact, maybe about 1m high and 35-38 cm wide......it could have been a Centaur, or Centaur Minor.

If you are genuinely interested, I'll make it my business to hear them.....and find out if they still have packaging!

 

[DocG]

@Doc

Would you be interested in some Apogee Speakers that are selling (used) for about £500 (I think), form one of my dealers. I think he said they were worth about £1500, but I can easily check, if they are of any interest (as a stop gap?).

Let me know if you want further info......if not, it's no harm done. I just thought they might be up your alley.

Hi Cno,

Do you mean these Australian ribbon speakers? I'm afraid we couldn't accomodate them in our current house. Moreover, Mrs. DocG is not into stop-gap solutions (she was quite upset that I replaced my DacMagic after no more than 3 years' use. So I now use it in my office...).

I would certainly be interested to hear what they sound like, though. Did you get to hear them?

:cheers:

Yes, but what I saw was quite compact, maybe about 1m high and 35-38 cm wide......it could have been a Centaur, or Centaur Minor.

Oh, but those are hybrids. I'm not sure... I frankly didn't like that other hybrid: the Martin Logan Ethos. The Centaur Minor seems to have a friendlier impedance though... Again, not sure. My new speakers are supposed to last the rest of my life (or thereabout). :?

 

[WishTree]

My new speakers are supposed to last the rest of my life (or thereabout). :?

As I was mentioning elsewhere, I think Vivid Audio has good synergy with Devialet. The German dealer seems to have some ex-demo stock of V1.5 and some Giya as well.

May be you can do a demo and see how they fit? They are based at (59590 Geseke, Germany 02942-988848 0175-4147012 schulte@vividaudio.de - This info from their ad on audio-markt.de adv) which I am guessing is not too far from your location.

 

[DocG]

My new speakers are supposed to last the rest of my life (or thereabout). :?

As I was mentioning elsewhere, I think Vivid Audio has good synergy with Devialet. The German dealer seems to have some ex-demo stock of V1.5 and some Giya as well.

May be you can do a demo and see how they fit? They are based at (59590 Geseke, Germany 02942-988848 0175-4147012 schulte@vividaudio.de - This info from their ad on audio-markt.de adv) which I am guessing is not too far from your location.

I definitely plan to audition the Vivid V1; the V1w looks most promising (though I'll most likely demo the V1.5).

Now, this German dealer is still 380 km one way. I already spotted a Vivid-dealer at 60 km (just across the Dutch border).

As for Apogee (or other floor standing speakers): those would be used in another system -- amp still undecided...

 

[matt49]

For the last couple of days I've been running three digital sources into the Dev:

(1) Modded Sonos via SPDIF

(2) AIR from PC via ethernet

(3) NAS via USB

I do think that (2) and (3) give fractionally better SQ than (1), though I may be imagining this.

(1) has the advantage of the lovely Sonos GUI. It also has Spotify integrated into it. (3) has the advantage over (2) of not needing a PC interface; it can be controlled from an iThing. But (3) doesn't have Spotify. If I want Spotify I can easily switch to (2).

For most of my listening I've been using (3), occasionally dipping into (2) for Spotify. If (3) continues to feel good, I might ditch (1) altogether, and put the modded Sonos box into another system.

:cheers:

Matt

 

[Macspur]

Hi Matt,

Well you've certainly got options, which is never a bad thing.

Mac

www.macsmusic.blogbubble.net

 

[davedotco]

For the last couple of days I've been running three digital sources into the Dev:

(1) Modded Sonos via SPDIF

(2) AIR from PC via ethernet

(3) NAS via USB

I do think that (2) and (3) give fractionally better SQ than (1), though I may be imagining this.

(1) has the advantage of the lovely Sonos GUI. It also has Spotify integrated into it. (3) has the advantage over (2) of not needing a PC interface; it can be controlled from an iThing. But (3) doesn't have Spotify. If I want Spotify I can easily switch to (2).

For most of my listening I've been using (3), occasionally dipping into (2) for Spotify. If (3) continues to feel good, I might ditch (1) altogether, and put the modded Sonos box into another system.

:cheers:

Matt

You may recall we spoke about how good a system has to be before showing up the limitations of Sonos/Spotify as a source.

To you think you have gone past that limit with this system, ie are the differences repeatable and quantifiable? Be interesting to see what happens if you live with Sonos/Spotify for a few days using familier material then revert to the NAS.

 

[matt49]

You may recall we spoke about how good a system has to be before showing up the limitations of Sonos/Spotify as a source.

To you think you have gone past that limit with this system, ie are the differences repeatable and quantifiable? Be interesting to see what happens if you live with Sonos/Spotify for a few days using familier material then revert to the NAS.

Yes, we did indeed. And as you say, if I had to live without the USB connection for a time (though why that would happen, I can't think), it'd be interesting to see how it felt going back to it.

I suppose there are two separate issues here. One is the quality of Spotify's 320kbps Ogg Vorbis files, as against lossless FLAC/WAV/ALAC files. I've run some blind ABX tests on this, but n.b. using Sonos via SPDIF.

That's the other issue: the possibility that SPDIF is inferior to fully asynchronous streaming via ethernet or USB. What I'm suggesting at the moment is that the effects of clock jitter over SPDIF may be audible in my system. Or perhaps there's some other reason why SPDIF might sound inferior: Devialet say that SPDIF gives worse SQ than AES/EBU, presumably because of their different impedances. If it's the case that ethernet/USB is audibly better, then it may be that one could detect a difference between Ogg Vorbis and lossless more reliably via ethernet/USB than via SPDIF. But that's a theoretical possibility that I doubt I'll ever fully explore in practice.

With the USB set-up I think I've pushed the envelope as far as I reasonably can. Of course, there's also wireless AIR, but I've never regarded wireless as a likely set-up for me. It was interesting talking to the Devialet rep at Windsor on Friday. Without showing my hand, I reminded him that the official Devialet line is that wireless AIR gives the best SQ. He was keen to retreat from that position: ethernet and USB are just as good as wireless, he said, but Devialet wants to make itself distinctive by pushing its own wireless technology, which, when it works, is indeed a technological breakthrough. The problem, as Devialet have painfully realized, is that in order to get a signal to your Dev wirelessly, it has to go through a domestic wifi router, which in many cases won't be up to the job or won't have been set up optimally.

 

[davedotco]

These are interesting variations to explore, what few experiments I have tried suggest usb to be superior to SPDIF, but as I prefer not to use a computer as a source this is of les interest to me.

SPDIF electrical is almost always transmitted over phono cables which is a mismatch to the 75 ohm standard, I am told that this induces measurable quantities of jitter though whether this effect is audible or not I can not say.

Despite it's reputation, for non hi-res formats SPDIF optical may actually be the better option though as always, the devil is in the detail.

 

[matt49]

These are interesting variations to explore, what few experiments I have tried suggest usb to be superior to SPDIF, but as I prefer not to use a computer as a source this is of les interest to me.

The beauty of the NAS-via-USB set-up is that it takes the computer out of the equation (unless you count the NAS as a computer, but by that reckoning presumably any digital storage device is a computer ...). The interface is a smartphone or tablet; the computer stays in the office, where it belongs.

:cheers:

 

[davedotco]

These are interesting variations to explore, what few experiments I have tried suggest usb to be superior to SPDIF, but as I prefer not to use a computer as a source this is of les interest to me.

The beauty of the NAS-via-USB set-up is that it takes the computer out of the equation (unless you count the NAS as a computer, but by that reckoning presumably any digital storage device is a computer ...). The interface is a smartphone or tablet; the computer stays in the office, where it belongs.

:cheers:

In an ideal world I would have everything ripped to flac on a NAS drive but realistically I am going to be a Spotify user, or as and when, a superior streaming service. I am always looking for a better streaming device/user interface than Sonus but really can't find anything at sensible money. I might even consider a Naim or Linn device but until they fully embrace Spotify that is not an option.

I do not think that the quality difference between Flac and Ogg Vorbis is huge and the output of the Connect is better than some give it credit for but the cumulative effect........... :?

So, ideally a fully wired system, as far as the signal path is concerned, into a decent but not too reveiling system seems to be the order of the day, modded Connect into ADM9RS could be a very simple solution.

 

[yyz67]

I do not think that the quality difference between Flac and Ogg Vorbis is huge and the output of the Connect is better than some give it credit for but the cumulative effect........... :?

Hi all, I'm interested in Devialet but also have Spotify and music in some other formats including FLAC. The difference between FLAC and Ogg might not be "huge" but I surprisingly found a clear example in Dave Brubeck's Kathy's Waltz on Time Out.

I can't be sure it's not due to possible mastering differences (I think Spotify is the 2009 re-release), but in comparing the version on Spotify and an 88kHz/24 bit version from HDTracks, there is a noticable lack of piano reverb in the Ogg version (and various MP3 and youtube versions I sampled). I don't have golden ears but it is clear as day: the piano notes at the beginning of the song on the piano in the HD FLAC version ring between notes (presumably due to sustain foot pedal), but in compressed codec versions the notes sound much drier with reverb almost immediately ending after each note.

You can sample the HD FLAC version here: http://www.hdtracks.com/time-out?format=FLAC#?format=FLAC

Spotify URI (paste in Spotify search box): spotify:track:6qNWmjlMAW503WLZLfjUba

The Dave Brubeck Quartet – Kathy's Waltz

Can anyone confirm what I am hearing? Does anyone have a CD (44/16) or LP version as well for comparison?

 

[matt49]

Hi all, I'm interested in Devialet but also have Spotify and music in some other formats including FLAC. The difference between FLAC and Ogg might not be "huge" but I surprisingly found a clear example in Dave Brubeck's Kathy's Waltz on Time Out.

I can't be sure it's not due to possible mastering differences (I think Spotify is the 2009 re-release), but in comparing the version on Spotify and an 88kHz/24 bit version from HDTracks, there is a noticable lack of piano reverb in the Ogg version (and various MP3 and youtube versions I sampled). I don't have golden ears but it is clear as day: the piano notes at the beginning of the song on the piano in the HD FLAC version ring between notes (presumably due to sustain foot pedal), but in compressed codec versions the notes sound much drier with reverb almost immediately ending after each note.

You can sample the HD FLAC version here: http://www.hdtracks.com/time-out?format=FLAC#?format=FLAC

Spotify URI (paste in Spotify search box): spotify:track:6qNWmjlMAW503WLZLfjUba

The Dave Brubeck Quartet – Kathy's Waltz

Can anyone confirm what I am hearing? Does anyone have a CD (44/16) or LP version as well for comparison?

Good to hear you're interested in Devialet.

As for the different versions of the Brubeck track, I can't help. Maybe they're different masters, or maybe there's some other variable (in your system) that's making them sound different.

What is your current system?

:cheers:

Matt

 

[davedotco]

Hi all, I'm interested in Devialet but also have Spotify and music in some other formats including FLAC. The difference between FLAC and Ogg might not be "huge" but I surprisingly found a clear example in Dave Brubeck's Kathy's Waltz on Time Out.

I can't be sure it's not due to possible mastering differences (I think Spotify is the 2009 re-release), but in comparing the version on Spotify and an 88kHz/24 bit version from HDTracks, there is a noticable lack of piano reverb in the Ogg version (and various MP3 and youtube versions I sampled). I don't have golden ears but it is clear as day: the piano notes at the beginning of the song on the piano in the HD FLAC version ring between notes (presumably due to sustain foot pedal), but in compressed codec versions the notes sound much drier with reverb almost immediately ending after each note.

You can sample the HD FLAC version here: http://www.hdtracks.com/time-out?format=FLAC#?format=FLAC

Spotify URI (paste in Spotify search box): spotify:track:6qNWmjlMAW503WLZLfjUba

The Dave Brubeck Quartet – Kathy's Waltz

Can anyone confirm what I am hearing? Does anyone have a CD (44/16) or LP version as well for comparison?

Good to hear you're interested in Devialet.

As for the different versions of the Brubeck track, I can't help. Maybe they're different masters, or maybe there's some other variable (in your system) that's making them sound different.

What is your current system?

:cheers:

Matt

Just to give an idea of the difficulty comparing tracks from Spotify to the real world, a very quick perusal of Spotify shows that the track appears on 'Take Five', 'Take Five and more'. 'Take 5 Digitally remastered', 'Take 5 50th Anniversary edition' and at least one compilation album.

Sure I would expect some of them to be identical, but the re-mastered versions? Who knows......... :?

 

[yyz67]

As for the different versions of the Brubeck track, I can't help. Maybe they're different masters, or maybe there's some other variable (in your system) that's making them sound different.

What is your current system?

It's not my system as I've played both sources via computer (using computer's DAC) and on an Oppo using its DAC. The FLAC version has clear reverb between the piano notes while the Spotify version's reverb seems truncated. Below are the exact sources I'm comparing. I believe a simple A/B will confirm a clear difference with the clear win going to FLAC (either due to a different master or higher resolution):

FLAC version (you can play the sample of Kathy's Waltz): http://www.hdtracks.com/time-out?format=FLAC#?format=FLAC

Exact Spotify track (paste this in Spotify search box): spotify:track:6qNWmjlMAW503WLZLfjUba

If anyone is willing to A/B these on your system, I'd be interested in the results...

 

[davedotco]

I have just tried several tracks from both albums on headphones.

I find the Flac versions to have slghtly more 'body' in several cases. My Macbook/Sennheisers do not clearly resolve the reverb issues you are talking about, maybe maybe not......... :?

The two albums do sound different though, interesting to see what differences can be 'engineered' into a recording made in 1959.

FWIIW i have just been comparing 'Blue Rondo' and find a noticeable difference in the recorded 'acoustic', the FLAC appears to be more ambient while the Spotify version is a little more focused.

But then I might be obsessing and hearing things........ :?

But if this really is representative of the difference between Flac and Spotify's Ogg Vorbis presentation than I am really not too worried, musically they are very, very close and when I listen for pleasure I do not try and analyse the recordings to anything like this degree. I'm very much into the 'feel' of a piece, it either 'feels' right or it doesn't.

And musically speaking the album does little for me, 1959 produced some of the great albums of all times, for me this isn't one of them.

Edited for layout.

 

[davedotco]

I know that responding to your own post is a bit crass but.......

I left the Brubeck album playing while pottering around and a while ago it continued onto Disc 2, the bonus recordings.

All I can say is wow! Same band a couple of years later recorded at Newport Jazz, outstanding.

Far greater verve, rythmic intensity and good recording too. Light years ahead of the Time out studio album........ :dance: