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The Devialet thread

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matt49

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davedotco said:
Fair enough Matt, I feel you and particularly Doc are being remarkably sanguin about this and as a 'simple' dac amplifier I'm sure the Dev will come up to expectations.

Anyway, ignore me (while I declare war on France) and keep playing, do let us know how you get on...... :cheers:
Cheers, Dave!

Sorry if my post was a bit of a lecture. I'm rather grumpy ATM, due to a molar extraction last Weds. The procedure was OK (well, a bit long at two hours), but I now have a weeping and infected hole in my gum. Worse things happen at sea, of course ...
 

matt49

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Doing a bit of 'configurating' this evening, and I've got to wondering why Devialet supply a 4GB SD card. The factory standard config is a 15KB text file: i.e. tiny. I know there's a suggestion that eventually you might be able to load music files onto the card and play them direct, but presumably that's quite a long way down the road, and in any case you could buy your own high-capacity card. (You can get a high-speed 64GB card for £30 or thereabouts.) In any case 4GB isn't a lot of lossless music.

Any thoughts?
 

DocG

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May 1, 2012
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matt49 said:
Doing a bit of 'configurating' this evening, and I've got to wondering why Devialet supply a 4GB SD card. The factory standard config is a 15KB text file: i.e. tiny. I know there's a suggestion that eventually you might be able to load music files onto the card and play them direct, but presumably that's quite a long way down the road, and in any case you could buy your own high-capacity card. (You can get a high-speed 64GB card for £30 or thereabouts.) In any case 4GB isn't a lot of lossless music.

Any thoughts?
I had noticed that too, Matt. First of all, memory is cheap, as you say. So a 4 GB card is hardly more expensive than say a 512 MB one.

The amp might need more than 15 KB when/if their automated room/driver correction is rolled out. I think for storing music, even a 64 GB card will be rather poor. Only wildly guessing, of course.

Have a nice Dev-day! :cheers:
 

matt49

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DocG said:
The amp might need more than 15 KB when/if their automated room/driver correction is rolled out.
I guess that could be right if the room correction is in the form of extra software, which gets loaded onto the Dev from the SD card. Although even then 4GB's a heck of a lot of software! In any case, I suspect the RC will be in the form of a text file that sets parameters for the software that's already in the DSP. But as you say, we're speculating. :?

Following your lead, I've put in a high-pass filter. My bass problem had been partly, but not fully solved by the GIK bass traps. There was still some farty stuff right at the bottom end (excuse my language). Checking on the GIK website, I see that the 244 bass panel is "tuned" to kick in around 70Hz and above. So I've set the high-pass filter at 50Hz and this seems to have sorted it completely. 50Hz is pretty low, so I'm not missing out on much. This afternoon I need to run through some more tracks with deep bass just to check things are nice and tight. I might even be able to nudge the filter down by a few more Hz.

:cheers:

Matt
 

DocG

Well-known member
May 1, 2012
54
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matt49 said:
DocG said:
The amp might need more than 15 KB when/if their automated room/driver correction is rolled out.
I guess that could be right if the room correction is in the form of extra software, which gets loaded onto the Dev from the SD card. Although even then 4GB's a heck of a lot of software! In any case, I suspect the RC will be in the form of a text file that sets parameters for the software that's already in the DSP. But as you say, we're speculating. :?

Following your lead, I've put in a high-pass filter. My bass problem had been partly, but not fully solved by the GIK bass traps. There was still some farty stuff right at the bottom end (excuse my language). Checking on the GIK website, I see that the 244 bass panel is "tuned" to kick in around 70Hz and above. So I've set the high-pass filter at 50Hz and this seems to have sorted it completely. 50Hz is pretty low, so I'm not missing out on much. This afternoon I need to run through some more tracks with deep bass just to check things are nice and tight. I might even be able to nudge the filter down by a few more Hz.

:cheers:

Matt
"The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys" - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe (*) :grin:

Have fun, Matt! :cheers:

(*) Not! It's attributed to a Mrs. Doris Rowland, commenting on her husband, Ross Rowland Jr., creator of the American Freedom Train.
 

matt49

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DocG said:
"The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys" - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe (*) :grin:

(*) Not! It's attributed to a Mrs. Doris Rowland, commenting on her husband, Ross Rowland Jr., creator of the American Freedom Train.
Erm, indeed. :oops:

The effects of fiddling with the various combinations of crossover frequency and crossover order are dramatically different. For now I've settled on 45Hz and 2nd order attenuation slope. Though I might also try pushing the crossover point higher and using a shallower attenuation slope.

In the meantime I really need to get some work done ...

:shifty:
 

davedotco

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Apr 24, 2013
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matt49 said:
DocG said:
The amp might need more than 15 KB when/if their automated room/driver correction is rolled out.
I guess that could be right if the room correction is in the form of extra software, which gets loaded onto the Dev from the SD card. Although even then 4GB's a heck of a lot of software! In any case, I suspect the RC will be in the form of a text file that sets parameters for the software that's already in the DSP. But as you say, we're speculating. :?

Following your lead, I've put in a high-pass filter. My bass problem had been partly, but not fully solved by the GIK bass traps. There was still some farty stuff right at the bottom end (excuse my language). Checking on the GIK website, I see that the 244 bass panel is "tuned" to kick in around 70Hz and above. So I've set the high-pass filter at 50Hz and this seems to have sorted it completely. 50Hz is pretty low, so I'm not missing out on much. This afternoon I need to run through some more tracks with deep bass just to check things are nice and tight. I might even be able to nudge the filter down by a few more Hz.

:cheers:

Matt
This is an area of some contention. It is my experience that there is little, if anything, of musical worth below about 60-70 hz, large church organ and some modern 'electronic' music apart. I occassionally get an argument from lovers of certain 'bass driven' styles of music but forum ettiquette forbids me from saying what I really think about that.

I know that there is some content on 'real' music at very low frequencies, some ambient 'clues' and reverberation characteristics that underpin, for example, large scale classical works but in reality little of this is lost if the very deep bass is filtered out.

Attempting to reproduce very deep bass in a domestic setup is in my view largely pointless, the wavelengths involved compared to the room dimensins tell us that and anyway most recorded 'deep bass' is not that low, people are often surprised when tested at just how high in frequency percieved low bass notes are.

There are other issues too, the predominence of ported enclosures (Cremona Auditors for example) means that the bass driver is completely unloaded at lower frequencies meaning that it can be easily overdriven mechanically and damaged. This can be often observed in some speakers as excessive and seemingly unrelated 'flapping' of the bass cone, this happens in all ported speakers to a degree and removing the sub bass can assist the bass driver immensley.

Having a programable hi pass filter is, in my view, very, very useful, be very interesting to hear how you get on.
 

matt49

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davedotco said:
Attempting to reproduce very deep bass in a domestic setup is in my view largely pointless, the wavelengths involved compared to the room dimensins tell us that and anyway most recorded 'deep bass' is not that low, people are often surprised when tested at just how high in frequency percieved low bass notes are.

There are other issues too, the predominence of ported enclosures (Cremona Auditors for example) means that the bass driver is completely unloaded at lower frequencies meaning that it can be easily overdriven mechanically and damaged. This can be often observed in some speakers as excessive and seemingly unrelated 'flapping' of the bass cone, this happens in all ported speakers to a degree and removing the sub bass can assist the bass driver immensley.

Having a programable hi pass filter is, in my view, very, very useful, be very interesting to hear how you get on.
Yes, that all makes very good sense.

As far as I can tell, the only thing I'm losing by attenuating the bass below 45Hz is the annoying flatulence. Electric bass guitars still go nice and low, and the organ in the 3rd mvmt of Saint-Saens's Organ Symphony is still jolly impressive.

You suggest there's not much of musical value below 60-70Hz. I've just pushed the cut-off point up to 70 (with 2nd order crossover slope), and it still sounds great: listening to Steel Pulse, 'Handsworth Revolution'. Upping the crossover slope to 4th order is even better, I think. Lots more experimenting to do ...

You've also made me wonder what's been causing the bass flatulence. Because I didn't hear it on the 3 (?) occasions I demoed the Dev/Cremona combo, I assumed it must be a room problem: probably a combination of room modes and the resonance of my suspended wooden floors. But I wonder if the Dev was just overloading the bass drivers in the Cremonas. Having said that, the bass control is better with the bass traps in the room than without (just been experimenting with this).

:cheers:

Matt
 

davedotco

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Apr 24, 2013
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matt49 said:
davedotco said:
Attempting to reproduce very deep bass in a domestic setup is in my view largely pointless, the wavelengths involved compared to the room dimensins tell us that and anyway most recorded 'deep bass' is not that low, people are often surprised when tested at just how high in frequency percieved low bass notes are.

There are other issues too, the predominence of ported enclosures (Cremona Auditors for example) means that the bass driver is completely unloaded at lower frequencies meaning that it can be easily overdriven mechanically and damaged. This can be often observed in some speakers as excessive and seemingly unrelated 'flapping' of the bass cone, this happens in all ported speakers to a degree and removing the sub bass can assist the bass driver immensley.

Having a programable hi pass filter is, in my view, very, very useful, be very interesting to hear how you get on.
Yes, that all makes very good sense.

As far as I can tell, the only thing I'm losing by attenuating the bass below 45Hz is the annoying flatulence. Electric bass guitars still go nice and low, and the organ in the 3rd mvmt of Saint-Saens's Organ Symphony is still jolly impressive.

You suggest there's not much of musical value below 60-70Hz. I've just pushed the cut-off point up to 70 (with 2nd order crossover slope), and it still sounds great: listening to Steel Pulse, 'Handsworth Revolution'. Upping the crossover slope to 4th order is even better, I think. Lots more experimenting to do ...

You've also made me wonder what's been causing the bass flatulence. Because I didn't hear it on the 3 (?) occasions I demoed the Dev/Cremona combo, I assumed it must be a room problem: probably a combination of room modes and the resonance of my suspended wooden floors. But I wonder if the Dev was just overloading the bass drivers in the Cremonas. Having said that, the bass control is better with the bass traps in the room than without (just been experimenting with this).

:cheers:

Matt
This is a very interesting area I think. For normal instruments of all kinds, the sensation of really deep bass comes from the octave above 60hz, this may explain why your bass traps are tuned for around 70hz.

I have no idea of the tuning of your loudspeakers but it might be worth trying some kind of sine wave sweep through the lower frequencies, observe the bass cone, it will move very little where it is well loaded and flap all over the place when not, if you can find this frequency it will give you a very good guide where to set your filter.

Arrrgh...... I really miss having a decent system to play with....... :wall:
 

DocG

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May 1, 2012
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matt49 said:
DocG said:
matt49 said:
Thankfully it sounds amazing.

DocG said:
And even worse still: sometimes the "Devialet WiFi" disappears from the drop-down, and I can only choose "Disable Devialet AIR", "Settings", "About" or "Quit".
This happens when my Dev goes into standby. When it wakes up, the Dev reappears in the menu. Is this what's happening to you?
No, it is in the middle of a song, say Spotify, streamed wirelessly from the laptop to the Dev. It sometimes brutally switches to the laptop speakers, and I can't resume the AIR streaming anymore. Weird!
Sounds like a signal drop-out to me. How far is your wireless router from the Dev? I know you have a strong wifi signal, but AIR is notorious for having very limited range. Devialet themselves recommend parking an Airport Express right next to the Dev. Silly, I know ...
Yesterday, I tried streaming through a wired connection, but the issues were the same...

I just disabled AIR. I'll get me a 5m USB-cable, and give that a try. Should be more robust, no?
 

James7

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Jun 1, 2011
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USB is not ideally ssuited to longer distances, though 5m should be okay. You may be better to get that Sonos of yours plugged in.
 

DocG

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May 1, 2012
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James7 said:
USB is not ideally ssuited to longer distances, though 5m should be okay. You may be better to get that Sonos of yours plugged in.
Hi James,

At the moment my Sonos:Connect and my CDP are the only sources in use. And both work flawlessly indeed. But Sonos has some (minor) limitations, when using Spotify. For example, it is not possible to use the "albumradio" function through Sonos. And I like this feature to explore new music that is somewhat linked to sth I like already. Hence the USB plan.

BTW, it seems not possible to connect my iPad through USB; that was possible with my good old DacMagic, but the Dev thinks it draws too much current...
 

James7

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Jun 1, 2011
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DocG said:
James7 said:
USB is not ideally ssuited to longer distances, though 5m should be okay. You may be better to get that Sonos of yours plugged in.
Hi James,

At the moment my Sonos:Connect and my CDP are the only sources in use. And both work flawlessly indeed. But Sonos has some (minor) limitations, when using Spotify. For example, it is not possible to use the "albumradio" function through Sonos. And I like this feature to explore new music that is somewhat linked to sth I like already. Hence the USB plan.

BTW, it seems not possible to connect my iPad through USB; that was possible with my good old DacMagic, but the Dev thinks it draws too much current...
Got it. Well a 5m USB should be fine, especially as it won't be your primary source.

A shame there are these little niggling issues - the Dev is clearly a wonderful DAC / amp (i heard it suggested that the 110 and 170 actually sound better than the original D-Premier, which was why I wondered if you had heard the D-Premier) but the AIR system and one or two other things like, as you say, being able to plug in an iPad, clearly need work, and this I imagine does slightly detract from the overall experience.
 

davedotco

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Apr 24, 2013
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DocG said:
James7 said:
USB is not ideally ssuited to longer distances, though 5m should be okay. You may be better to get that Sonos of yours plugged in.
Hi James,

At the moment my Sonos:Connect and my CDP are the only sources in use. And both work flawlessly indeed. But Sonos has some (minor) limitations, when using Spotify. For example, it is not possible to use the "albumradio" function through Sonos. And I like this feature to explore new music that is somewhat linked to sth I like already. Hence the USB plan.

BTW, it seems not possible to connect my iPad through USB; that was possible with my good old DacMagic, but the Dev thinks it draws too much current...
I have come across similar issues before and got round them by setting up the iPad not to draw power through the usb cable, ie effectively using it on battery power. I have seen other adaptor devices that allow you to access you iPad output while charging from another device, not exactly elegant though....... :doh:
 

DocG

Well-known member
May 1, 2012
54
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davedotco said:
DocG said:
James7 said:
USB is not ideally ssuited to longer distances, though 5m should be okay. You may be better to get that Sonos of yours plugged in.
Hi James,

At the moment my Sonos:Connect and my CDP are the only sources in use. And both work flawlessly indeed. But Sonos has some (minor) limitations, when using Spotify. For example, it is not possible to use the "albumradio" function through Sonos. And I like this feature to explore new music that is somewhat linked to sth I like already. Hence the USB plan.

BTW, it seems not possible to connect my iPad through USB; that was possible with my good old DacMagic, but the Dev thinks it draws too much current...
I have come across similar issues before and got round them by setting up the iPad not to draw power through the usb cable, ie effectively using it on battery power.
That would be nice, Dave. Any idea how I tell the iPad to live on battery power and not to sponge on the Devialet?
 

davedotco

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Apr 24, 2013
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DocG said:
davedotco said:
DocG said:
James7 said:
USB is not ideally ssuited to longer distances, though 5m should be okay. You may be better to get that Sonos of yours plugged in.
Hi James,

At the moment my Sonos:Connect and my CDP are the only sources in use. And both work flawlessly indeed. But Sonos has some (minor) limitations, when using Spotify. For example, it is not possible to use the "albumradio" function through Sonos. And I like this feature to explore new music that is somewhat linked to sth I like already. Hence the USB plan.

BTW, it seems not possible to connect my iPad through USB; that was possible with my good old DacMagic, but the Dev thinks it draws too much current...
I have come across similar issues before and got round them by setting up the iPad not to draw power through the usb cable, ie effectively using it on battery power.
That would be nice, Dave. Any idea how I tell the iPad to live on battery power and not to sponge on the Devialet?
Sadly I may have got that the wrong way round. I advised (he who can not be named) of the way around a similar problem where a portable dac/amp was drawing too much power from the iPad, this was solved by switching the dac/amp to battery power, so not the answer. There is nothing in settings as far as I can see.

Maybe a powered usb hub would work and I am sure that I have seen a third party equivilent of the camera Connection kit thay allows you to extract data and use a separate charger at the same time but neither are particularly elegant solutions, An i20 dock would work, but not a usb solution, SPDIF only.
 

DocG

Well-known member
May 1, 2012
54
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18,545
davedotco said:
DocG said:
davedotco said:
DocG said:
James7 said:
USB is not ideally ssuited to longer distances, though 5m should be okay. You may be better to get that Sonos of yours plugged in.
Hi James,

At the moment my Sonos:Connect and my CDP are the only sources in use. And both work flawlessly indeed. But Sonos has some (minor) limitations, when using Spotify. For example, it is not possible to use the "albumradio" function through Sonos. And I like this feature to explore new music that is somewhat linked to sth I like already. Hence the USB plan.

BTW, it seems not possible to connect my iPad through USB; that was possible with my good old DacMagic, but the Dev thinks it draws too much current...
I have come across similar issues before and got round them by setting up the iPad not to draw power through the usb cable, ie effectively using it on battery power.
That would be nice, Dave. Any idea how I tell the iPad to live on battery power and not to sponge on the Devialet?
Sadly I may have got that the wrong way round. I advised (he who can not be named) of the way around a similar problem where a portable dac/amp was drawing too much power from the iPad, this was solved by switching the dac/amp to battery power, so not the answer. There is nothing in settings as far as I can see.

Maybe a powered usb hub would work and I am sure that I have seen a third party equivilent of the camera Connection kit thay allows you to extract data and use a separate charger at the same time but neither are particularly elegant solutions, An i20 dock would work, but not a usb solution, SPDIF only.
Too good to be true... :)
 

davedotco

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Apr 24, 2013
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DocG said:
davedotco said:
DocG said:
davedotco said:
DocG said:
James7 said:
USB is not ideally ssuited to longer distances, though 5m should be okay. You may be better to get that Sonos of yours plugged in.
Hi James,

At the moment my Sonos:Connect and my CDP are the only sources in use. And both work flawlessly indeed. But Sonos has some (minor) limitations, when using Spotify. For example, it is not possible to use the "albumradio" function through Sonos. And I like this feature to explore new music that is somewhat linked to sth I like already. Hence the USB plan.

BTW, it seems not possible to connect my iPad through USB; that was possible with my good old DacMagic, but the Dev thinks it draws too much current...
I have come across similar issues before and got round them by setting up the iPad not to draw power through the usb cable, ie effectively using it on battery power.
That would be nice, Dave. Any idea how I tell the iPad to live on battery power and not to sponge on the Devialet?
Sadly I may have got that the wrong way round. I advised (he who can not be named) of the way around a similar problem where a portable dac/amp was drawing too much power from the iPad, this was solved by switching the dac/amp to battery power, so not the answer. There is nothing in settings as far as I can see.

Maybe a powered usb hub would work and I am sure that I have seen a third party equivilent of the camera Connection kit thay allows you to extract data and use a separate charger at the same time but neither are particularly elegant solutions, An i20 dock would work, but not a usb solution, SPDIF only.
Too good to be true... :)
Told you to buy a proper amplifier, like a Marantz....... :read:

Seriously, A Pure i20 dock will give you a SPDIF output and somewhere 'nice' to park and charge your iPad. When the AIR function is properly sorted just add a small powered/active speaker for bedroom or kitchen use..... :rockout:
 

matt49

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Apr 7, 2013
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I'm afraid I have nothing to suggest re. the USB conundrum. Maybe worth comparing USB with ethernet?

I've spent the last hour switching between (1) modded Sonos via SPDIF and (2) AIR via ethernet. I think -- and I must stress the think -- I can hear a smidge more clarity and attack on (2). If there is any difference, it's pretty tiny: I feel I'm up against the limits of what my hearing/brain can discriminate. This is where I'd really benefit from having another pair of ears in the room, more experienced than mine and perhaps more objective.

Currently Janacek is blasting out of the Cremonas. Bloomin' marvellous.

:cheers:

Matt
 

matt49

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Apr 7, 2013
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I was at the Windsor hi-fi show this afternoon and spoke at length to the very genial Devialet rep. I plugged him for news of future updates, without expecting anything -- why tell an average Joe like me what's in the pipeline? The one significant upgrade (which is already old news, I'm afraid) is a hardware and software upgrade to AIR. This is intended to improve signal range and prevent drop-outs. It will be free to existing customers and can easily be fitted at home, apparently.

There'll also be upgrades to the phono stage and the connectivity of twin Dev 240/D-Premier set-ups.

I asked him about the rumoured Devialet/Vivid link, and he was fairly dismissive. Apparently the two companies happen to have the same distributors in the Far East, but that's about it. Also Vivid have been working on an active system using Devialet electronics, but this isn't anywhere near realease.

In one of the Absolute Sounds rooms they had the 170 paired with some Crystal Cable Arabesque Mini speakers. The speakers are pretty tiny, and got a bit muddled with loud rock music, but playing some opera they sounded gorgeous.

I was also able to have a good listen to the SF Olympica Is and IIs again, this time with the standmounts properly run in. (When I heard them a month or so ago, they were horribly bright.) They're both outstanding speakers. The IIs don't give anything away to the Is in terms of speed and coherence, it seems to me, but they add a whole extra sonic dimension in the lower mid and bottom end. Not so much clout as richness and atmosphere.

:cheers:

Matt
 

James7

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Jun 1, 2011
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Good to hear about the AIR upgrades. Arabesque Mini ... odd design ...
http://www.stereophile.com/content/crystals-arabesque-mini
 

James7

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Jun 1, 2011
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matt49 said:
I was also able to have a good listen to the SF Olympica Is and IIs again, this time with the standmounts properly run in. (When I heard them a month or so ago, they were horribly bright.) They're both outstanding speakers. The IIs don't give anything away to the Is in terms of speed and coherence, it seems to me, but they add a whole extra sonic dimension in the lower mid and bottom end. Not so much clout as richness and atmosphere.
Hmmm. Olympica IIs. Sound like they could be ideal for that bigger listening room :)
 

matt49

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James7 said:
Good to hear about the AIR upgrades. Arabesque Mini ... odd design ... http://www.stereophile.com/content/crystals-arabesque-mini
Yes, unusual design, beautiful finish, extremely good sound (unless pushed to ear-splitting levels, which seems to be the way at hi-fi shows), and ambitious pricing: £14K including stands. Gulp! I think the few units they manage to sell in the UK will end up in uber-designed flats in Mayfair, Belgravia and Hyde Park.

James7 said:
Hmmm. Olympica IIs. Sound like they could be ideal for that bigger listening room :)
Now I just need to find them a house!

:shifty:

Matt
 

matt49

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I fiddled around with this a couple of days ago but got nowhere. The idea was to use my Synology NAS as a source direct into the Dev via its USB port, i.e. instead of piping the files through the network and a PC using AIR. This could have several advantages. No messing about with the clunky AIR settings. No problems reconnecting AIR every time the PC reboots. No more cut-outs (which i get very occasionally on ethernet). And a more direct signal path, which is still asynchronous, so puts the Dev's clock in absolute control (unlike Sonos via SPDIF). To my knowledge no-one's managed to make this work yet.

In fact all it took was a bit of fiddling with the settings in the NAS's media player software (Audio Station). And it works! As for SQ, well I've got a bit of testing to do, but so far in direct comparison with Sonos it sounds great. One immediate impression: playing via SPDIF and USB at the same dB setting on the Dev's remote control, USB sounds slifhtly louder. Not sure what, if anything, that means.

Audio Station also has the obligatory iPhone app, which is fine (though not quite up to the standards of the Sonos GUI). The advantage is that it should now be possible to use the Dev without a laptop turned on. (OK, I could do that with Sonos, of course, but not with AIR via ethernet.)

:cheer:

Matt
 

matt49

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matt49 said:
... it should now be possible to use the Dev without a laptop turned on ...
Yep, it works.

As Rousseau said, 'Man is born free but everywhere he is chained to his laptop'. Not any more, Jean-Jacques!

:cheers:
 

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