The Devialet thread

[DocG]

Before I try Dave's suggestions for rebooting the AIR module (when all gets a little quieter here) I just started the iOS app on my iPad. Looks straightforward. Via the "My Music" tab in the menu, one can choose to play the music that's loaded on the iThing. Works well.

When I want to continue reading WHF on that same iPad, the music stops abruptly again. Start the music again: OK. When closing the iPad: shut-down again. So apparently, one needs to leave the app on to make it play - you can't have it playing in the background!

And after a while: same issue as the AIR module. Drop-outs! I must see if I can find something to measure the quality of the WiFi signal in my living room. With the router in the same room, you would expect the signal to be good enough. My Sonos:Connect never has drop-out issues, even with the Bridge in the garage, and several concrete walls between both... :wall:

 

[davedotco]

Before I try Dave's suggestions for rebooting the AIR module (when all gets a little quieter here) I just started the iOS app on my iPad. Looks straightforward. Via the "My Music" tab in the menu, one can choose to play the music that's loaded on the iThing. Works well.

When I want to continue reading WHF on that same iPad, the music stops abruptly again. Start the music again: OK. When closing the iPad: shut-down again. So apparently, one needs to leave the app on to make it play - you can't have it playing in the background!

And after a while: same issue as the AIR module. Drop-outs! I must see if I can find something to measure the quality of the WiFi signal in my living room. With the router in the same room, you would expect the signal to be good enough. My Sonos:Connect never has drop-out issues, even with the Bridge in the garage, and several concrete walls between both... :wall:

With Mrs DDC's iPad running the Spotify app via airplay to AEX the player runs in the background allowing other things to be done.

With the Devialet streaming the Ogg Vorbis file direct from Spotify rather than 'normal' digital data steam via the iPad player, is this the reason you need to keep the Spotify app 'active'?

You need some clear thought here, with kids about that is unlikely. Wait till later.

 

[matt49]

And after a while: same issue as the AIR module. Drop-outs! I must see if I can find something to measure the quality of the WiFi signal in my living room. With the router in the same room, you would expect the signal to be good enough. My Sonos:Connect never has drop-out issues, even with the Bridge in the garage, and several concrete walls between both... :wall:

Odd about the iPad app! What's the use of something that can't run in the background?

I'm afraid I can't shed any light on the drop-out problem. I've not experimented with AIR yet, and TBH I don't plan to, well not at the mo. If I were going to use it, I'd definitely hard wire. I've read too many stories of people suffering drop-outs with wireless AIR. Maybe one of the guys on the 'Wam will be able to help. I know there are long-time D-Premier users there who've been round the houses with wirless AIR.

For myself, I'd be more interested in getting the Dev to take a signal fed direct from my NAS via USB.

Good luck, Doc!

:cheers:

Matt

 

[DocG]

Been listening all afternoon: Spotify on laptop --> WiFi --> Devialet. To ensure good data transmission, I installed a WiFi-extender in the living room (the router is in the garage and coverage was below par). So now laptop, extender and amp are in the same room. Works excellently. The Devialet is used as an outboard soundcard and plays whatever you have on the computer.

After several hours of hassle-free listening, all of a sudden the transmission was brutally interrupted and the music was produced by the laptop's inbuilt speakers again... Wifi signal is excellent, Devialet AIR-Streaming enabled on the laptop, good WiFi reception on the amp. All is perfect, but no transmission... Maybe I should hardwire the PC to the amp? Should be more robust... The Devialet baseline: "The best wire is no wire" doesn't seem to apply here. :?

Firstly just check that you haven't deselected the Dev, ie that your laptop is seeing the Dev and that it is selected.

If that doesn't work, go through the usual routines, switch every thing off and back on in order, checking any settings as you go.

If that does not work you need expert help, where is Matt when you need him...... :doh:

I just checked the connections again. Now my PC tells me that the Windows firewall blocks (parts of) the AIR-streamer. That's weird, cos it first worked fine, and then suddenly stopped (without anyone having done anything). So I "de-blocked" the program, and all seems well again. Let's see if it lasts longer this time!

 

[DocG]

Before I try Dave's suggestions for rebooting the AIR module (when all gets a little quieter here) I just started the iOS app on my iPad. Looks straightforward. Via the "My Music" tab in the menu, one can choose to play the music that's loaded on the iThing. Works well.

When I want to continue reading WHF on that same iPad, the music stops abruptly again. Start the music again: OK. When closing the iPad: shut-down again. So apparently, one needs to leave the app on to make it play - you can't have it playing in the background!

I've now tried it a couple of times more. Ditto.

Tested the app on my iPhone too. I can see my agenda (sweeping down the screen), but everything else stops the music. When resuming, the song doesn't continue, but starts again.

I still think AIR is a nice extra on the Devialet... but I'm glad I didn't pay €1000 for it! Then again, it might improve over time. That's the good thing with software driven devices!

 

[davedotco]

Before I try Dave's suggestions for rebooting the AIR module (when all gets a little quieter here) I just started the iOS app on my iPad. Looks straightforward. Via the "My Music" tab in the menu, one can choose to play the music that's loaded on the iThing. Works well.

When I want to continue reading WHF on that same iPad, the music stops abruptly again. Start the music again: OK. When closing the iPad: shut-down again. So apparently, one needs to leave the app on to make it play - you can't have it playing in the background!

I've now tried it a couple of times more. Ditto.

Tested the app on my iPhone too. I can see my agenda (sweeping down the screen), but everything else stops the music. When resuming, the song doesn't continue, but starts again.

I still think AIR is a nice extra on the Devialet... but I'm glad I didn't pay €1000 for it! Then again, it might improve over time. That's the good thing with software driven devices!

Remember you are not streaming regular PCM data from you iThing's player, which does work in the background, but the actual ogg vorbis file direct from the spotify app, which presumeably needs to be active.

Maybe you can reset the Dev to recieve regular PCM rather than perform it's party trick of decoding the ogg vorbis files onboard.

If you have anthing in iTunes on your iThing try playing that. The player works in the background, so that should work.

 

[DocG]

Before I try Dave's suggestions for rebooting the AIR module (when all gets a little quieter here) I just started the iOS app on my iPad. Looks straightforward. Via the "My Music" tab in the menu, one can choose to play the music that's loaded on the iThing. Works well.

When I want to continue reading WHF on that same iPad, the music stops abruptly again. Start the music again: OK. When closing the iPad: shut-down again. So apparently, one needs to leave the app on to make it play - you can't have it playing in the background!

I've now tried it a couple of times more. Ditto.

Tested the app on my iPhone too. I can see my agenda (sweeping down the screen), but everything else stops the music. When resuming, the song doesn't continue, but starts again.

I still think AIR is a nice extra on the Devialet... but I'm glad I didn't pay €1000 for it! Then again, it might improve over time. That's the good thing with software driven devices!

Remember you are not streaming regular PCM data from you iThing's player, which does work in the background, but the actual ogg vorbis file direct from the spotify app, which presumeably needs to be active.

Maybe you can reset the Dev to recieve regular PCM rather than perform it's party trick of decoding the ogg vorbis files onboard.

If you have anthing in iTunes on your iThing try playing that. The player works in the background, so that should work.

No, trying the iPad app, I did use iTunes files (MP3 at 320 kbps), so that won't solve it...

 

[davedotco]

Morning Doc, That is strange, the iPad music player should work in the background allowing you to use other apps 'on top'. I do this all the time with Mrs DDC's iPad and it is 100% reliable to an AEX.

You really need to work this out in a logical, step by step approach to find out what the issue is, iPad, software etc
Start with something that does work, wired connection maybe, and change one thing at a time until you isolate the issue. Good luck, I have a 'family' day today so am off shortly.

 

[James7]

Hi there Doc. Sorry to hear about this. Very frustrating. To be honest, that's why after flirting with ripping my CDs and moving to some sort of streaming system a few years ago I decided in the end to huy myself a new disc-spinner and settle back to glitch-free listening that doesn't involve rebooting and all the rest. The fact that I listen predominantly to albums rather than singles and continue to enjoy choosing each disc and placing it in the tray the old-fashioned way helps. Even so, I can see why people would want what Devialet promise - the prospect of wireless access to a world of music with a tap or two of the iPad without any noticeable compromise in sound quality, so this is annoying. As you say, though, the advantage of software-driven devices is the possibility to tweak and correct, and Devialet don't come across as a company that rest on their laurels much, so if this is early teething problems I imagine it won't be long before a solution materialises in the form of a software upgrade.

 

[DocG]

Well, I still have my CDP too. And Sonos works flawlessly. So I'm OK for now.

There's an awful lot of info, tips and tricks on the Devialet Help pages (which is good, but to me means the issues are legion). I already checked my WiFi: Hardly another network on the same channel (but I could go to a totally free channel), and the signal strength is even up to high res wireless streaming (Or "steaming" as it is called on the Dev website ). Looks like I'll have to dig a little deeper. Tomorrow perhaps. Sunday is family day here too . Thank you all for thinking along, and for the moral support! As I said: it's not a deal breaker for me, but it would be nice if it worked well!

 

[matt49]

Doc, let us know how you get on. I'll be experimenting big time this week. Mrs49 and the girls are away until Thursday evening. I'll only have the hi-fi and the spaniel for company.

What I'm getting from the Dev at the moment is amazing dynamics. Quiet passages are delightfullly delicate, and then there's the sudden lurch into big and pure drama. The transitions are easy and shocking. This is quite new to me. Extraordinary ...

:cheers:

Matt

 

[matt49]

So now I've got AIR set up, but via ethernet cable -- I don't feel in the mood to be messing with wireless just now.

All going fine, once I realized that the little desktop AIR app is set to 'streaming disabled' by default. It looks as if this needs to be reset every time the PC is switched on, which is destined to become an occasional minor annoyance.

As my NAS has an iTunes server loaded on it, I can access all my music from the NAS without having to load it onto my laptop (which isn't nearly big enough anyway). However, the laptop (or whatever machine I'm using) has to be on and connected to the network. If the laptop's wifi connection drops out, the music stops. Once the wifi's reconnected, the little Dev app needs to be reset to enable streaming. :wall: The same applies if the laptop goes to sleep; obviously you'd want to change the laptop's power settings to stop it going to sleep ...

Another downside of this set-up is that it means using iTunes, which isn't my preferred interface: I find it a trial to use with large music collections. Give me Sonos any day.

'What about SQ?' I hear you say. Well, so far I can't hear any difference between the PC via ethernet and my modded Sonos via SPDIF. But I haven't given this a really thorough or systematic trial. When/if I do, the Dev will be able to perform another of its party tricks. You can configure each of the Dev's various inputs to come on at its own particular volume: ideal for comparing sources, as this allows you to level match the sources, jot down the dB reading for each on the Dev's vol control, and then configure each output to come on at the correct level. Nice.

The SQ of Spotify premium streamed from the laptop also seems fine.

:cheers:

Matt

 

[DocG]

So now I've got AIR set up, but via ethernet cable -- I don't feel in the mood to be messing with wireless just now.

All going fine, once I realized that the little desktop AIR app is set to 'streaming disabled' by default. It looks as if this needs to be reset every time the PC is switched on, which is destined to become an occasional minor annoyance.

Yes, I noticed that too. In the AIR settings, you can tick a "Launch Devialet AIR at Start-Up"-button. This way it should always be enabled when starting up the computer... But it isn't. :wall:

Even worse, I noticed on several occasions that when the streaming stops, AIR seems to have disabled itself and needs to be enabled again to resume streaming.

And even worse still: sometimes the "Devialet WiFi" disappears from the drop-down, and I can only choose "Disable Devialet AIR", "Settings", "About" or "Quit".

I'll see if I can hardwire the laptop straight to the Dev, and try if that makes things better. But I'm afraid it won't, as the WiFi signal is excellent.

I guess it's still very good VFM at 1 EUR, but I understand why they don't sell it for the proclaimed 1000 EUR yet...

I think I'll stick to Sonos and spinning discs for now! :cheers:

 

[matt49]

Thankfully it sounds amazing.

And even worse still: sometimes the "Devialet WiFi" disappears from the drop-down, and I can only choose "Disable Devialet AIR", "Settings", "About" or "Quit".

This happens when my Dev goes into standby. When it wakes up, the Dev reappears in the menu. Is this what's happening to you?

I think I'll stick to Sonos and spinning discs for now! :cheers:

Me too.

:cheers:

Matt

 

[DocG]

Thankfully it sounds amazing.

And even worse still: sometimes the "Devialet WiFi" disappears from the drop-down, and I can only choose "Disable Devialet AIR", "Settings", "About" or "Quit".

This happens when my Dev goes into standby. When it wakes up, the Dev reappears in the menu. Is this what's happening to you?

No, it is in the middle of a song, say Spotify, streamed wirelessly from the laptop to the Dev. It sometimes brutally switches to the laptop speakers, and I can't resume the AIR streaming anymore. Weird!

 

[matt49]

Thankfully it sounds amazing.

And even worse still: sometimes the "Devialet WiFi" disappears from the drop-down, and I can only choose "Disable Devialet AIR", "Settings", "About" or "Quit".

This happens when my Dev goes into standby. When it wakes up, the Dev reappears in the menu. Is this what's happening to you?

No, it is in the middle of a song, say Spotify, streamed wirelessly from the laptop to the Dev. It sometimes brutally switches to the laptop speakers, and I can't resume the AIR streaming anymore. Weird!

Sounds like a signal drop-out to me. How far is your wireless router from the Dev? I know you have a strong wifi signal, but AIR is notorious for having very limited range. Devialet themselves recommend parking an Airport Express right next to the Dev. Silly, I know ...

 

[davedotco]

Told you guys you should have bought a Marantz...... :rofl:

Sorry not very supportive but I would not be at all pleased to be in your shoes. I use an AEX and play with Sonos a fair amount and they are pretty much bulletproof. I don't mind doing a bit of work on setup but the sort of issues you seem to be having would seriously **** me off.

My dealer would be practically living with me at this point, quite possibly suffering regular beatings and using up his entire mobile phone credit on calls to France.

 

[DocG]

Thankfully it sounds amazing.

And even worse still: sometimes the "Devialet WiFi" disappears from the drop-down, and I can only choose "Disable Devialet AIR", "Settings", "About" or "Quit".

This happens when my Dev goes into standby. When it wakes up, the Dev reappears in the menu. Is this what's happening to you?

No, it is in the middle of a song, say Spotify, streamed wirelessly from the laptop to the Dev. It sometimes brutally switches to the laptop speakers, and I can't resume the AIR streaming anymore. Weird!

Sounds like a signal drop-out to me. How far is your wireless router from the Dev? I know you have a strong wifi signal, but AIR is notorious for having very limited range. Devialet themselves recommend parking an Airport Express right next to the Dev. Silly, I know ...

The WiFi extender is in the same room, at about 7 m from the amp. The laptop is in that same living room too. Devialet advise a wifi signal higher than -55dBm for high res streaming. I measured my wifi signal near the amp (with inSSIDer), and it reads between -42 and -37 dBm. And I only stream 320 kbps MP3s! As I said before, I'll try a hardwired connection when I have the time...

 

[DocG]

Told you guys you should have bought a Marantz...... :rofl:

Sorry not very supportive but I would not be at all pleased to be in your shoes. I use an AEX and play with Sonos a fair amount and they are pretty much bulletproof. I don't mind doing a bit of work on setup but the sort of issues you seem to be having would seriously **** me off.

My dealer would be practically living with me at this point, quite possibly suffering regular beatings and using up his entire mobile phone credit on calls to France.

Well, that's all very relative, Dave.

I bought the amp for its fabulous sound quality (Dee Dee Bridgewater is singing now... Oh man!). The sleek appearance is a plus, as is the sophisticated remote, and the future proofing thru firmware updates. And the AIR streamer too. Well, it is not even a proper streamer (yet?), but I have my trusted Sonos:Connect for that. I guess a 4m Cat5 cable, to hardwire the Dev to the laptop, won't brealk the bank - in the new house, every room will have 2 to 8 UTP ports anyway, so we'll be fine there and then. :dance:

 

[James7]

Yes, it sounds very frustrating, but obviously in both yours and Matt's cases you bought the Dev primarily for use with Sonos via a digital input and having the AIR system for a euro is just a bonus. If that were a key factor in why you bought it and had cost a grand, well, that would be a different story.

Out of interest, did you hear much of the D-Premier before the new models came out? How do the 170/110 compare?

 

[davedotco]

Told you guys you should have bought a Marantz...... :rofl:

Sorry not very supportive but I would not be at all pleased to be in your shoes. I use an AEX and play with Sonos a fair amount and they are pretty much bulletproof. I don't mind doing a bit of work on setup but the sort of issues you seem to be having would seriously **** me off.

My dealer would be practically living with me at this point, quite possibly suffering regular beatings and using up his entire mobile phone credit on calls to France.

Well, that's all very relative, Dave.

I bought the amp for its fabulous sound quality (Dee Dee Bridgewater is singing now... Oh man!). The sleek appearance is a plus, as is the sophisticated remote, and the future proofing thru firmware updates. And the AIR streamer too. Well, it is not even a proper streamer (yet?), but I have my trusted Sonos:Connect for that. I guess a 4m Cat5 cable, to hardwire the Dev to the laptop, won't brealk the bank - in the new house, every room will have 2 to 8 UTP ports anyway, so we'll be fine there and then. :dance:

Being totally serious for a moment, the above was more than a little tongue in cheek.

I totally agree about the sound quality, my exposure to the D-Premier was fairly brief but very, very impressive. As amplifiers the new models would be my choice at anything like this level but having been 'sold' on the flexibility of both the amp and the AIR technology I would be pretty upset if it did not work as described.

I am not comfortable buying a product that is a work in progress. I accept that the AIR technology can be developed much further but I would be pretty miffed if the features that are, supposedly, already present fail to work as advertised.

For me this would be unacceptable on a £500 product let alone a £5000 one......

 

[matt49]

Told you guys you should have bought a Marantz...... :rofl:

Sorry not very supportive but I would not be at all pleased to be in your shoes. I use an AEX and play with Sonos a fair amount and they are pretty much bulletproof. I don't mind doing a bit of work on setup but the sort of issues you seem to be having would seriously **** me off.

My dealer would be practically living with me at this point, quite possibly suffering regular beatings and using up his entire mobile phone credit on calls to France.

Well, that's all very relative, Dave.

I bought the amp for its fabulous sound quality (Dee Dee Bridgewater is singing now... Oh man!). The sleek appearance is a plus, as is the sophisticated remote, and the future proofing thru firmware updates. And the AIR streamer too. Well, it is not even a proper streamer (yet?), but I have my trusted Sonos:Connect for that. I guess a 4m Cat5 cable, to hardwire the Dev to the laptop, won't brealk the bank - in the new house, every room will have 2 to 8 UTP ports anyway, so we'll be fine there and then. :dance:

Dave, I think you think the Doc and I are more exercised by this than we really are. At the moment I'm just having fun seeing what the Dev is and isn't capable of. What it can't do or can't do well doesn't really bother me. Like the Doc, I bought my Dev for its SQ as an amp/DAC. It's bloomin' amazing.

I had a number of sources in mind when I decided on the Dev:

1. modded Sonos via SPDIF

2. Linn DS or similar via SPDIF or AES/EBU

3. PC via ethernet

4. NAS via USB

I knew 4 was impossible as things stand, and in any case I don't really like the GUI of my Synology NAS. Aside from that, it would be an elegant solution on the face of it. The same applies to 3: a bit less elegant though, and you still have the problem of the clunky GUI. As for 1 and 2, I'll definitely demo a Linn box at home, as I'd like to know whether there's any SQ benefit. But my preferred set-up would be 1, assuming the SQ competes with a high-end streamer. This is simply because I like the Sonos GUI. And I have to say that the SQ of the modded Sonos is as good as anything I've heard so far.

There may be a theoretical advantage in 4 and especially 3: asynchronous stream clocked by the Dev's DAC, therefore no clock jitter. On the other hand, some measurements I've seen e.g. in HFN show DACs suffer lower jitter with SPDIF. I think the jury's still out.

Devialet say the best results are with wifi AIR. I'm pretty sceptical. Obviously they want to sell people the AIR module: it's an income stream. Put it like this: would I have paid the £1K that Devialet say AIR will cost after October? No.

Right: time to fiddle with some room correction.

:cheers:

Matt

 

[davedotco]

Told you guys you should have bought a Marantz...... :rofl:

Sorry not very supportive but I would not be at all pleased to be in your shoes. I use an AEX and play with Sonos a fair amount and they are pretty much bulletproof. I don't mind doing a bit of work on setup but the sort of issues you seem to be having would seriously **** me off.

My dealer would be practically living with me at this point, quite possibly suffering regular beatings and using up his entire mobile phone credit on calls to France.

Well, that's all very relative, Dave.

I bought the amp for its fabulous sound quality (Dee Dee Bridgewater is singing now... Oh man!). The sleek appearance is a plus, as is the sophisticated remote, and the future proofing thru firmware updates. And the AIR streamer too. Well, it is not even a proper streamer (yet?), but I have my trusted Sonos:Connect for that. I guess a 4m Cat5 cable, to hardwire the Dev to the laptop, won't brealk the bank - in the new house, every room will have 2 to 8 UTP ports anyway, so we'll be fine there and then. :dance:

Dave, I think you think the Doc and I are more exercised by this than we really are. At the moment I'm just having fun seeing what the Dev is and isn't capable of. What it can't do or can't do well doesn't really bother me. Like the Doc, I bought my Dev for its SQ as an amp/DAC. It's bloomin' amazing.

I had a number of sources in mind when I decided on the Dev:

1. modded Sonos via SPDIF

2. Linn DS or similar via SPDIF or AES/EBU

3. PC via ethernet

4. NAS via USB

I knew 4 was impossible as things stand, and in any case I don't really like the GUI of my Synology NAS. Aside from that, it would be an elegant solution on the face of it. The same applies to 3: a bit less elegant though, and you still have the problem of the clunky GUI. As for 1 and 2, I'll definitely demo a Linn box at home, as I'd like to know whether there's any SQ benefit. But my preferred set-up would be 1, assuming the SQ competes with a high-end streamer. This is simply because I like the Sonos GUI. And I have to say that the SQ of the modded Sonos is as good as anything I've heard so far.

There may be a theoretical advantage in 4 and especially 3: asynchronous stream clocked by the Dev's DAC, therefore no clock jitter. On the other hand, some measurements I've seen e.g. in HFN show DACs suffer lower jitter with SPDIF. I think the jury's still out.

Devialet say the best results are with wifi AIR. I'm pretty sceptical. Obviously they want to sell people the AIR module: it's an income stream. Put it like this: would I have paid the £1K that Devialet say AIR will cost after October? No.

Right: time to fiddle with some room correction.

:cheers:

Matt

Fair enough Matt, I feel you and particularly Doc are being remarkably sanguin about this and as a 'simple' dac amplifier I'm sure the Dev will come up to expectations.

Anyway, ignore me (while I declare war on France) and keep playing, do let us know how you get on...... :cheers:

 

[DocG]

Yes, it sounds very frustrating, but obviously in both yours and Matt's cases you bought the Dev primarily for use with Sonos via a digital input and having the AIR system for a euro is just a bonus. If that were a key factor in why you bought it and had cost a grand, well, that would be a different story.

Out of interest, did you hear much of the D-Premier before the new models came out? How do the 170/110 compare?

I did a (rather extensive) demo of the D1, with various speakers. And I was very disappointed. Now this dealer didn't know anything about the device, and told me he wanted to get rid of his demo D1, and stop selling Devialet, cos he had amps with better VFM [read: 'on which he had far higher margins, being distributor and dealer at the same time'!]. I think something must have been wrong with the amp (settings, ...). So I never went back, and visited another dealer, who then just had a 110 in.

As for 110 vs. 170: I still haven't heard a 170 yet (and I don't want to, if I'm honest). The 110 sounded wonderful, and I was not prepared to pay the 2000 EUR extra. And I figured I could live without the extra features (sub out, AES/EBU, more inputs, ...). So I felt no need to make things complicated and went for the 110! Now I just need to find the right speakers for it - I'm aware my choice is less broad than Matt's, but I'll find them!

 

[matt49]

Yes, it sounds very frustrating, but obviously in both yours and Matt's cases you bought the Dev primarily for use with Sonos via a digital input and having the AIR system for a euro is just a bonus. If that were a key factor in why you bought it and had cost a grand, well, that would be a different story.

Out of interest, did you hear much of the D-Premier before the new models came out? How do the 170/110 compare?

James,

I heard a D-Premier once, with Harbeth SHL5s. The combo blew me away. I'd previously heard a number of Class A amps (Musical Fidelity, Pass Labs, Luxman, Accuphase) which were all excellent. The D-Premier just seemed to have that extra bit of clarity at the top end and control at the bottom.

I haven't heard the 110, so can't compare it to the 170. I should think that in most normal-sized rooms with sensible speakers the two are very similar. But I'm just speculating.

I decided on the 170 because it has a bigger 'engine', and I might be moving to bigger premises sometime in the near future -- and buying correspondingly bigger speakers.

:cheers:

Matt