Source first still important, dumbed down hifi, or is there a problem with your system?

[altruistic.lemon]

I'm surprised that you'd be able to hear a difference between 320kbps AAC and lossless ALAC files and suspect that there may have been other variables present during your comparison.

How precisely did you compare them and exactly what equipment was you using? By this I mean was it the analogue output from the iPad, or a digital output via USB to an external DAC, sent wirelessly to a AEX, what version of AEX was it, was the CD played in a HiFi CD player with its own DAC, did both audio files get converted by the same DAC, was it a blind comparison or did you know which one you were listening to?

Depending on what methodology you used there could potentially be several other variables which could have accounted for the difference in sound between the AAC files and the lossless ALAC files.

Always good reasons to dispute, isn't there, mate! If I told you, and you realised the test was kosher, you'd argue about interference over USB, S/pdif conversions etc. The fact remains, they sounded different.

Try, as I've said over and over again, the comparison yourself. Isn't difficuly, yet it is odd the vocal "everything sounds the same" lot refuse to do so.

 

[SiUK]

...If internet forums had existed in the 80s and 90s...

They actually did, CnoEvil....unfortunately I remember some of them only too well

.. would there have been the same amount of arguing...

Oh yes! But a lot of forums were heavily moderated, like the chat rooms that emerged.

 

[Alec]

You couldn't make it up! :rofl:

And yet, folk (with and, seemingly, without, interests) do.

 

[CnoEvil]

Cno, when you're comparing apples with oranges (i.e. two different masterings on two different meidums) then the jury's not likely to have been called up in the first place. Only when you've got the two together - same mastering, different bitrate - can you compare. Anything else is just time wasted.

I am only questioning the possibility that hi-res material may sound better. I am not trying to prove it, due to the issues you have raised....so the jury is still out, as far as I'm concerned.

Do you think Blu-ray sounds better than DVD, and if so, why do you think this might be?

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Obviously Blu-ray distorts more, Cno. Have you learned nothing from this thread ?

 

[JamesMellor]

One thing is for sure, life was a lot simpler and there was less to argue about, when you just put the CD on the drawer, closed it and pressed play. These circular arguments never go anywhere.

That raises an interesting question ie. If internet forums had existed in the 80s and 90s, would there have been the same amount of arguing, and if so, what would it have been about. I think a forum full to the brim of male egos, is a recipe for friction.

Contentious issues might have been - CD vs Vinyl; Whether tapes were going to die out; British vs Japenese sound quality; Valves vs SS; Sealed vs Ported speakers; Whether the LP12 was king of the TTs; and Cables, let's not forget cables.

<LOL> Yes there where , Compuserve had an audio forum back then and guess what , it was CD vs LP , amps and guess what CABLES ! , one guy , steve somebody or other even took an interconnect ABX test with Brad E Meyer of the Boston audio society , failed it and argued for weeks that he'd passed cos he'd picked the right cable twice , things don't change much do they ?

 

[Craig M.]

<LOL> Yes there where , Compuserve had an audio forum back then and guess what , it was CD vs LP , amps and guess what CABLES ! , one guy , steve somebody or other even took an interconnect ABX test with Brad E Meyer of the Boston audio society , failed it and argued for weeks that he'd passed cos he'd picked the right cable twice , things don't change much do they ?

So even back then, audiophiles were failing AB/X tests? :doh:

 

[steve_1979]

Ashley James! His strength is sales and marketing. You'd be way more knowledgeable than him, Steve.

Thanks for the compliment but you overestimate me. I'm a bit more diplomatic maybe but certainly not as knowledgeable regarding hifi.

Always good reasons to dispute, isn't there, mate! If I told you, and you realised the test was kosher, you'd argue about interference over USB, S/pdif conversions etc. The fact remains, they sounded different.

Unless the only variable in the test is the bitrate then the comparison is pointless because you can't be sure which of the other variables could be to blame for the difference in the sound.

Try, as I've said over and over again, the comparison yourself. Isn't difficuly, yet it is odd the vocal "everything sounds the same" lot refuse to do so.

I've done 320kbps vs lossless comparisons several times with simple blind A/B tests and also using the Foobar ABX test and have never passed it. Anything over 190kbps sounds the same as lossless to me.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

I've done 320kbps vs lossless comparisons several times with simple blind A/B tests and also using the Foobar ABX test and have never passed it. Anything over 190kbps sounds the same as lossless to me.

That's interesting. What equipment were you using?

 

[Cypher]

Ripped CDs, so the same mastering. Maybe I mean 320 kb? Not big on computers, but, anyway, there's clear differences.

Can you describe the clear differences you hear between a MP3 (320kbps) track and a WAV track ?

 

[Craig M.]

I've done the comparisons as well, proper rips I did myself with no need to bs about not knowing what format I was using (ipad files!). Do you want to know what equipment I used? None of it was from Avi though, so I'm not sure it will fit your agenda.

Lemon, you couldn't tell them apart in a proper test, of that I'm very sure. Don't know why I even bother dignifying your bs trolling with a response.

 

[SiUK]

Ego probably.

 

[Craig M.]

Speak for yourself.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

I've done the comparisons as well, proper rips I did myself with no need to bs about not knowing what format I was using (ipad files!). Do you want to know what equipment I used? None of it was from Avi though, so I'm not sure it will fit your agenda.

Lemon, you couldn't tell them apart in a proper test, of that I'm very sure. Don't know why I even bother dignifying your bs trolling with a response.

No Agenda, and don't be so offensive, there's no need and it cheapens your posts. Would you prefer I lied and said I heard no differences?? Now that might suit YOUR agenda .

You cannot be sure of anything in HiFi, of that I am certain. What proper tests did you do, by the way?

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Ego probably.

Yes, you clearly have a large one Seriously, have you compared the different bit rates - I'm tempted to ask in what laboratory, but am pretty sure no-one here has ever gone to those lengths!

 

[Craig M.]

You cannot be sure of anything in HiFi, of that I am certain.

I can be sure that you're full of it.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

You cannot be sure of anything in HiFi, of that I am certain.

I can be sure that you're full of it.

Stick the topic, not the poster! No need to attack people just because they disagree with you.

 

[chebby]

Well, it seems we've all done the comparisons - at one time or another - and we are all happy with our own respective selections.

Mine are 320K AAC VBR from rips of my CDs (for syncing to iPhone and iPad) and ALAC 'masters' of music content on my iMac. (I also have all the original CDs stored in boxes in the cupboard under the stairs and a CD player built-in to my Marantz should I ever want to actually play a CD or want to re-rip anything.)

320K AAC VBR is (for me) optimal and the best balance between space on my iPhone / iPad and excellent audio quality.

The only remaining problem seems to be some who are not happy with other people's chosen bit-rates or levels of compression.

That's ok.

It's bound to happen.

 

[SiUK]

Ego probably.

Yes, you clearly have a large one Seriously, have you compared the different bit rates - I'm tempted to ask in what laboratory, but am pretty sure no-one here has ever gone to those lengths!

altruistic.lemon, I was responding to Craig's snipe But yeah,it's probably true enough anyway: my ego does rise up more than I'd like it to

 

[John Duncan]

I can be sure that you're full of it.

Oh do stop it, there's a good chap.

 

[Alec]

Can AAC go higher than 320, then?

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Ego probably.

Yes, you clearly have a large one Seriously, have you compared the different bit rates - I'm tempted to ask in what laboratory, but am pretty sure no-one here has ever gone to those lengths!

altruistic.lemon, I was responding to Craig's snipe But yeah,it's probably true enough anyway: my ego does rise up more than I'd like it to

Oh, terribly sorry, I'll delete the post if I can. I thought it seemed strange having read your previous posts.

Blast, can't. Anyway, I'm glad to see you've taken my misunderstanding in good spirit, cheers.

 

[steve_1979]

I've done 320kbps vs lossless comparisons several times with simple blind A/B tests and also using the Foobar ABX test and have never passed it. Anything over 190kbps sounds the same as lossless to me.

That's interesting. What equipment were you using?

I ripped the 320kbps MP3 and lossless FLAC files from a CD using the software program 'LAME' to do the encoding. The MP3 and FLAC files were ripped from the same CD to ensure they were both from the same master version.

I used the software program 'Foobar' with the ABX plugin installed to perform the comparisons to ensure there was no way I could be biased when performing the blind A/B or ABX comparisons.

The equipment was my PC which is setup to provide a bit perfect output via an S/PDIF optical cable to the DAC which is built into my AVI Neutron system.

The only variable in my comparisons was the file types used. Everything else was exactly the same.

 

[fr0g]

I've done 320kbps vs lossless comparisons several times with simple blind A/B tests and also using the Foobar ABX test and have never passed it. Anything over 190kbps sounds the same as lossless to me.

Ditto.

I have my MP3 ripper set to 256 VBR now. (and rip FLAC at the same time)

 

[Cypher]

Question for the people who hear differences ;

Can you describe the differences you hear between a MP3 (320kbps) track and a WAV track ?

Is it the timing, dynamics, more detail ??