Snake oil or rudimentary tone controls.....

Gazzip

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Having read through the whole of the "Snake Oil" post, http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/snake-oil which is in reference to the relative benefits, (or otherwise), of expensive after sales interconnects and speaker cables, I have a theory which is based on my own experiences with cables.

I began my journey in to hifi in the late 1980's. I started with Rotel, progressed to Cyrus, then through to Audiolab, back to Cyrus via Marantz and finally on to Bryston. Speakers have been Kef and PMC with a brief dabble in to EB Acoustics.

Over the years my ears have mellowed and my love for a purely analytical sound has somewhat dwindled, so I recently changed my pre-amp from a Bryston BP26 to an Audio Research Ref 3. This shift to valve pre-amplification was to remove some of the harsh sibilance that the solid state Bryston can bring to the party in its quest for detail at the expense of musicality. This the Audio Research duly did without removing any discernable detail, but I felt after a lot of listening that perhaps it did round off the top end a tiny bit too much for my ear.

This is where I believe the choice of cable comes in to its own and can really make a difference. Note the word difference is used here and not the word upgrade. Cables cannot upgrade a system because they do not add anything. What they can do however is to supress something that is unwanted, preventing certain frequencies within the signal from passing from source to amplification, or from amplifier to loudspeaker. In this way they can be used to tune a system or component.

Based upon its silver content I added a Cleareraudio Silverline Optimus 75 Ohm interconnect between DAC and pre-amp. Hey presto, the perfect balance for my ear was achieved. Had I needed more or less bass suppression to suit my acoustic tastes, bass suppression being what this cable is doing, then I would have tried different cables until I got to where I wanted to be.

The humble bass, mid and treble tone controls disappeared from British Hifi a quarter of a century ago. Perhaps all of this cable fiddling is the audiophiles way of asking for that extra control knob to be put back on our systems? Many of us think we want “straight out of the studio” sound to come out of our loudspeakers, but do we really? I would say clearly not considering how often I read post on here entitled “more bass required”, or “bright sounding system”.

Snake oil? No. Upgrade? No. Tuning instrument in the absence of tone controls? I would say most definitely yes.
 

Jota180

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Don't like insinuating that I don't trust you but anyway! :)

I would only accept what you say if you got someone to switch the cables back and forwards mid song and taking no more than a second or two to do it while you were blindfolded and didn't know which was which and then could still tell the difference time after time after time.

Blind A/B testing has to be a near to instantaneous as possible, a second or so, otherwise your audio memory is compromised. Any A/B testing done in designing changes in audiphile equipment is done switcing between the change and the original instantly. That's the only way to be sure you're hearing a difference.
 

CJSF

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Gazzip, thats a super description, fits my bill perfectly. A satisfying sound that has musicality and detail that can be listend to for hours. I have kept my sound by tuning and matching oround the cables as I changed and tweaked over the years. The cables have stayed unchanged for 30 years, I have always felt them to be right and yes there is a little silver in there too.

The cable has been so important that when I have auditioned components at the dealers, before home auditioning, I have always taken my own cable as well as speakers and stands, non of which are available these days. We get over this issue nowadays, my friendly dealer simply gives me the kit to take home no questions asked, thats of course if its cut and dried A or B? . . . I have delt with Dave since 1979 ;)
CJSF
 

Gazzip

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Jota180 said:
I would only accept what you say if you got someone to switch the cables back and forwards mid song and taking no more than a second or two to do it while you were blindfolded and didn't know which was which and then could still tell the difference time after time after time.

I did blind A/B testing. I had my Mac Mini outputting in to my Stello U3 via USB. Fom the stello I had a £20 Van Damme AES/EBU 110 Ohm outputting in to my DAC as well as the £195 Cleareraudio spdif at 75 Ohms. The DAC sits behind my listening position and after a bit of toggling up and down between inputs on the remote control I had absolutely no idea which cable I was listening to. The sound was so different between the cables, the treble end being much more prevalent in the input that turned out to be the one using the Cleareraudio cable spdif.

I ordered two Cleareraudio Silverline Optimus cables, one spdif at 75 Ohms and the other a 110 Ohm AES/EBU XLR. I repeated the test as described above and heard no difference between the cables. The AES/EBU was £415 compared to £195 and both sounded exaxtly the same.
 

TrevC

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Gazzip said:
Jota180 said:
I would only accept what you say if you got someone to switch the cables back and forwards mid song and taking no more than a second or two to do it while you were blindfolded and didn't know which was which and then could still tell the difference time after time after time.

I ordered two Cleareraudio Silverline Optimus cables, one spdif at 75 Ohms and the other a 110 Ohm AES/EBU XLR. I repeated the test as described above and heard no difference between the cables. The AES/EBU was £415 compared to £195 and both sounded exaxtly the same.

How to tell that speaker cables are foo. They quote the characteristic impedance of the cable which is toally irrelevant at audio frequencies, and don't quote the all important series resistance per metre figure.

The prices are ridiculous, they would cost a tiny fraction of that price to manufacture.
 

Gazzip

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TrevC said:
How to tell that speaker cables are foo. They quote the characteristic impedance of the cable which is toally irrelevant at audio frequencies, and don't quote the all important series resistance per metre figure.

Pretty sure Cleareraudio don't quote the characteristic impedance of their cables. I did that to make a distinction between the two cables in my original post. Their reference digital cables are called Silverline Optimus75 and Optimus110 so that punters know which one is spdif and which one is AES/EBU.
 

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