Snake oil etc

[Noddy]

I wish there were some more imaginative terms around than snake oil, though.

Audiofoolery? Hi-foolery?

I think we should just call such nonsense scams, or cons, which is what they are.

Anyone on the forums actually try the green felt pen idea back in the day?

Not me guv, I was too busy machining the perfect set of risers, to go with my 6” diameter solid tin cables that I use with my Bose cans.

I cannot for the life of me understand the hifi world except to see it as having a large dose of Veblen goods. Thus amps are packaged in flashy looking finely machined metal boxes with fins and needles to convince the buyer that the electronics inside are top notch. Then again, mechanical watches sell for ridiculous prices.

There is one fix that can improve sound :

The biggest problem in my experience is the room interaction. In my case reflections from the rear and side walls, which can be alleviated by cupping a hand at the side of each ear with the palm facing forwards. The above shows a more developed solution but it is only for those of us who enjoy a decent sized listening room.

 

[SteveR750]

Haha! The power of placebo!

Indeed. I was being sarcastic, and whilst agree that your ears should make the final decision, be under no illusion that anyone can hear the truth, or often even the difference between components. I'm firmly in the measurement science and engineering camp, there is no place for "a difference of night and day" hyperbole

 

[davidf]

Indeed. I was being sarcastic, and whilst agree that your ears should make the final decision, be under no illusion that anyone can hear the truth, or often even the difference between components. I'm firmly in the measurement science and engineering camp, there is no place for "a difference of night and day" hyperbole

But there’s also stuff that only trained ears can detect - just ask Harman.

 

[SteveR750]

But there’s also stuff that only trained ears can detect - just ask Harman.

Who is Harman?

If you're referring to Harman curves, that was work conducted by Sean Olive when he worked for Harman International to establish an optimum EQ profile for headphones assuming an average head

The Relationship between Perception and Measurement of Headphone Sound Quality

Above: The brands and models of six popular headphones used in this study. In many ways, our scientific understanding of the percepti...

seanolive.blogspot.com

Though you also need to consider the HRTF function as well, as we're not all on the median ear shape

Head-related transfer function - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[GeoffreyW]

Those speakers were part of a killer system, I believe?

 

[davidf]

Who is Harman?

If you're referring to Harman curves, that was work conducted by Sean Olive when he worked for Harman International to establish an optimum EQ profile for headphones assuming an average head

The Relationship between Perception and Measurement of Headphone Sound Quality

Above: The brands and models of six popular headphones used in this study. In many ways, our scientific understanding of the percepti...

seanolive.blogspot.com

Though you also need to consider the HRTF function as well, as we're not all on the median ear shape

Head-related transfer function - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Nope, their testing methods.

 

[SteveR750]

Nope, their testing methods.

What's the issue with them? Is there a better way of trying to determine an optimum response that you can think of?

 

[davidf]

What's the issue with them? Is there a better way of trying to determine an optimum response that you can think of?

I have no issue with them.

 

[SteveR750]

OK, I don't follow you David but I don't categorise Harman and Olives work as remotely snake oil, quite the opposite.

 

[davidf]

OK, I don't follow you David but I don't categorise Harman and Olives work as remotely snake oil, quite the opposite.

Neither do I - I think you’ve misunderstood me somewhere.

 

[record_spot]

Hi all just wondering if anyone remembers back in the early days of CD, the now debunked idea that you could improve the sound quality of CD's by coating the edge of a CD with a green felt tip. I'm sure I even read an article in Whathifi about it. The theory was "As best they could work out, the green ink absorbed stray light from the red laser that read the digital bits on the disc, somehow making it more accurate–better data retrieval, allegedly–and improving the sound"
I have to admit when I first read the article to my mind it sounded plausible but I was still sceptical. As I didn't have a CD player it was irrelevant.
I was just thinking about it because of the many posts on the forums debunking a few of the ideas about hifi that were prevalent in the 80's and 90's.

Anyone on the forums actually try the green felt pen idea back in the day?

No, however, I bought a copy of Peter Gabriel's 3rd album on CD some years ago, and one of the previous owners had done. Made zero difference. Abject claptrap and of the kind that gets too much credence in the hobby.

 

[Stuart83]

Audiofoolery? Hi-foolery?

I think we should just call such nonsense scams, or cons, which is what they are.

Not me guv, I was too busy machining the perfect set of risers, to go with my 6” diameter solid tin cables that I use with my Bose cans.

I cannot for the life of me understand the hifi world except to see it as having a large dose of Veblen goods. Thus amps are packaged in flashy looking finely machined metal boxes with fins and needles to convince the buyer that the electronics inside are top notch. Then again, mechanical watches sell for ridiculous prices.

There is one fix that can improve sound :
View attachment 5605
The biggest problem in my experience is the room interaction. In my case reflections from the rear and side walls, which can be alleviated by cupping a hand at the side of each ear with the palm facing forwards. The above shows a more developed solution but it is only for those of us who enjoy a decent sized listening room.

Mine too of late, my back bedroom which I have my main set in is full of soft furnishings which can't be avoided and it sucks the life out of some music.

 

[SteveR750]

Neither do I - I think you’ve misunderstood me somewhere.

Apologies then, no idea when I went off the road!

 

[davidf]

Apologies then, no idea when I went off the road!

Nor me, I’ve slept since then

 

[Dom]

Mine too of late, my back bedroom which I have my main set in is full of soft furnishings which can't be avoided and it sucks the life out of some music.

There must be a way to get the performance you require.

 

[jjbomber]

There must be a way to get the performance you require.

Headphones?

 

[Covenanter]

I remember someone selling wooden block to keep speaker cables off the floor. They weren't cheap and the type of wood was supposed to make a difference.

 

[Deleted member 201267]

I remember someone selling wooden block to keep speaker cables off the floor. They weren't cheap and the type of wood was supposed to make a difference.

Ladies and Gentlemen i give you...

CABLE ELEVATORS !!!

Russ Andrews - Hi-Fi mains and cable specialist

Leading manufacturer and retailer of Hi-Fi mains cables, mains conditioning products and Kimber Kable interconnects and speaker cable. Est 1986.

www.russandrews.com

 

[Friesiansam]

Ladies and Gentlemen i give you...

CABLE ELEVATORS !!!

Russ Andrews - Hi-Fi mains and cable specialist

Leading manufacturer and retailer of Hi-Fi mains cables, mains conditioning products and Kimber Kable interconnects and speaker cable. Est 1986.

www.russandrews.com

Seen similar things before. What the hell is this vibration, that they are supposed to stop, doing to your cables?

 

[podknocker]

Ladies and Gentlemen i give you...

CABLE ELEVATORS !!!

Russ Andrews - Hi-Fi mains and cable specialist

Leading manufacturer and retailer of Hi-Fi mains cables, mains conditioning products and Kimber Kable interconnects and speaker cable. Est 1986.

www.russandrews.com

Hahaha!

Every day is April fools day on this site.

Oh, hang on.

Utter tripe and people buy it.

 

[davidf]

Is it vibration? Or is it static charges? I don’t really get the vibration thing as a carpet is usually soft, but if a cable is moved around on a carpet, could that create static charges? Static charges seem to be created quite easily - if I fold jeans against me, my t-shirt becomes charged - if I put on a pillow case, same thing. Half the time, my t-shirt doesn’t even need to make contact. So if that was the angle, I could buy that.

 

[plastic penguin]

Snake oil? Makes a change from olive oil.

I'll grab my coat and leg it 😁

 

[Dom]

Headphones?

Well if the headphones are being affected by the soft furnishings then I would try closed back headphones.

 

[Deleted member 201267]

Is it vibration? Or is it static charges? I don’t really get the vibration thing as a carpet is usually soft, but if a cable is moved around on a carpet, could that create static charges? Static charges seem to be created quite easily - if I fold jeans against me, my t-shirt becomes charged - if I put on a pillow case, same thing. Half the time, my t-shirt doesn’t even need to make contact. So if that was the angle, I could buy that.

True but my speaker cables don't move !

 

[Stuart83]

There must be a way to get the performance you require.

I'm thinking about ways but most of the furnishings are unavoidable.
I have a hifi in the livingroom but because I like music louder than most I keep my main set in the back bedroom to avoid annoying the neighbor etc.
There's a corner couch and obviously a double bed both of which I can't get rid of.
The room isn't ideal for music to begin with as it's an odd shape.

I've had both hifis in bedroom and the livingroom at one point and the jump in quality is a night and day difference when in the livingroom.
I have decent headphones but personally much prefer speakers.
I've considered all kinds because moving the soft furnishings isn't an option.
I can't move the siting of the speakers much because of the rooms limitations but have placed the provided bungs in the back of the rear speaker vents which helps.

The hifi still sounds very good but it's always frustrating knowing it's got so much more to give if only the room was different.

I've done the obvious ie a decent hifi cabinet and kept the speakers away from the corners and walls but other than that I can't make much of an impact on the sound being strangled a tad.
(I don't mean by way of volume)

It's definitely the soft furnishings to my mind but I suppose having the hifi in the bedroom was always going to come with that trade off.
Other than kicking my partner out 😂 or moving her many many belongings to another room it's always going to have these things in here.
The 4ft teddy bear she has me share my listening room with and his many many friends don't help the situation.
I've tried hiding them but they always find their way back onto the corner couch or worse the bed.

I will keep up with the sporadic experimenting.
I've often thought about some kind of "pie in the sky" solution like a large cover to drape over the corner couch etc etc but obviously it would have to be made of something that reflects sound.
It would be ideal though as I could just store it away afterwards.