Roon v1.5

[Blacksabbath25]

It's a shame you're this far away as I could do all of that for you.

What you could do is change boot order in BIOS and just install Windows 10 on the SSD you bought. Use the 2TB drive as your data drive for the time being.

So you're going to run 2 HDDs, one SSD and an optical drive. Make sure you have enough SATA cables. Otherwise you'll be waiting again after your drives arrive.

I did look at the boot order but didn’t show the SSD when I had the 2TB hard drive connect at the same time not sure why but because the 2TB was built with the Pc and it has windows on it my thinking is that the bios see that it has windows on it .

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Anyway I have had to delete the led zeppelin files on Roon and there’s only 3 of the led zeppelin files it did correctly as it was doing my head in I have spent a lot of time trying to merge thoses files together even writing the album serial number in the edit section but still Roon will not merge thoses files together so I deleted them till I find out the reason why it’s not doing it .

Sounds like you have some special editions that may not be set up on Roon. Is it just the covers that is the problem?

You are probably better off seeking out the Original Barry Diament masters or some Japanese cds or vinyl, some of those complilations or deluxe editions have a rather poor reputation for sound quality. I gather some of recent remasters are pretty good though. I don't know what's on tidal, on Deezer there are 296 Led Zepp albums. Personally I would stick to the original albums, I only bought Remasters for the car and it was cheap.

I was a bit late liking led zeppelin as I wasn’t that keen on them when I a bit younger but now I am older I like the band a lot so it was only last year when I decided to buy all the led zeppelin albums and only the deluxe version was available on Amazon but have read that the led zeppelin albums wasn’t recorded very well back in the day so they say .

 

[insider9]

Did you connect both data and power cable to SSD?

 

[Blacksabbath25]

I have the SSD plugged into port 1 and then ones I sorted the SSD out with windows i then turn of the PC and plugged in the 2TB into port 2 but the loom has plugs on it for 5 hard drives and I plugged the 2TB hard drive on the plug that the closest to the SSD so at the second stage of the loom tree as the plugs are not marked which order they go in Sata 1-5

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Did you connect both data and power cable to SSD?

yes the little plug and the big plug which I think is the power and the small one the data lead

And currently running just the SSD on the Pc at the moment so it connected Right

 

[insider9]

So what's the issue? You can't boot from SSD once both are connected? Is that right?

 

[Blacksabbath25]

So what's the issue? You can't boot from SSD once both are connected? Is that right?

no because they both have windows on them

When I got home I took the 2TB out and just put the SSD in and loaded windows up and ones I updated all drivers and windows I then turned of the PC and plugged the 2TB drive in and when I started the PC up I pressed F2 to enter the boot menu but the SSD wasn’t n the list only the 2TB drive was and the graphics card was .

 

[insider9]

plugged the 2TB drive in and when I started the PC up I pressed F2 to enter the boot menu but the SSD wasn’t n the list only the 2TB drive was and the graphics card was .

Sorry, just to clarify. You have both drives with Windows and when both are connected you can only see one (2TB) in BIOS?

Do you intend to keep data on 2TB drive? If not boot from SSD and hot plug HDD, then wipe it. But please only do it if you know what you're doing. You would be doing it on a working PC so there is a risk of electrocution in worse case scenario.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

plugged the 2TB drive in and when I started the PC up I pressed F2 to enter the boot menu but the SSD wasn’t n the list only the 2TB drive was and the graphics card was .

Sorry, just to clarify. You have both drives with Windows and when both are connected you can only see one (2TB) in BIOS?

Do you intend to keep data on 2TB drive? If not boot from SSD and hot plug HDD, then wipe it. But please only do it if you know what you're doing. You would be doing it on a working PC so there is a risk of electrocution in worse case scenario.

correct about only seeing the 2TB in the bios menu and no I do not want to keep the data on the 2TB I want to re-format the hard drive so it’s blank

 

[insider9]

If you have a USB instal for Windows, use it to boot from and format 2TB drive.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

If you have a USB instal for Windows, use it to boot from and format 2TB drive.

no I do not have one but this PC I got today actually came with windows 10 64bit cd rom *shok* I thought windows 10 was download only

 

[insider9]

Run it from a CD with just the 2TB plugged in (to be sure). Boot from CD as if you would do Windows installation. At one point you can choose Advanced options. Pick that and remove all the partitions from 2TB drive, make one and format it. Then you're done. Goes without saying don't continue with Windows installation. Switch all off, plug in all your drives, and you should have SSD with Windows and nicely formatted 2TB data drive.

 

[andyjm]

I was going to give Roon a try, but frankly it does seem rather expensive. The 'lifetime' option in particular raises some questions - whose lifetime are they referring to - yours or theirs?

The chances of a start-up software company surviving in a market where similar software is available for free, raises some questions - although they do have the advantage of being a spin-out of an existing group. The road to HiFi success is littered with the carcasses of failed ventures.

As I pointed out in another thread on streaming audio, you rely on your software company to provide regular updates, the product is useless without their continual support.

Were it me, I think I would go with the annual option and see if they are still around in a year before paying the 'lifetime' price.

 

[Paulq]

@andyjm

I share some of your views.

However, I have tried Roon with the trial for the last week or so and have been pretty impressed. I was a massive sceptic before. I now understand what it does in comparison to other software I have used and don't know of any other software that does what Roon does in its entirety?

I use Audirvana+ extensively and have always been a fan - still am and will probably continue to use it as, like you, I am unsure whether the cost of Roon is worth it.

 

[JamesMellor]

I was going to give Roon a try, but frankly it does seem rather expensive. The 'lifetime' option in particular raises some questions - whose lifetime are they referring to - yours or theirs?

The chances of a start-up software company surviving in a market where similar software is available for free, raises some questions - although they do have the advantage of being a spin-out of an existing group. The road to HiFi success is littered with the carcasses of failed ventures.

As I pointed out in another thread on streaming audio, you rely on your software company to provide regular updates, the product is useless without their continual support.

Were it me, I think I would go with the annual option and see if they are still around in a year before paying the 'lifetime' price.

Reading the Roon fourm they say if they went under they would issue a final release to existing customers, liftetime and annual unlocking what you've got- you'd never recive and updates on metadata or such but what you have at the time you will keep.

James

 

[insider9]

I was going to give Roon a try, but frankly it does seem rather expensive.  The 'lifetime' option in particular raises some questions - whose lifetime are they referring to - yours or theirs?

The chances of a start-up software company surviving in a market where similar software is available for free, raises some questions - although they do have the advantage of being a spin-out of an existing group.  The road to HiFi success is littered with the carcasses of failed ventures. 

As I pointed out in another thread on streaming audio, you rely on your software company to provide regular updates, the product is useless without their continual support.  

Were it me, I think I would go with the annual option and see if they are still around in a year before paying the 'lifetime' price.

Absolutely agree and I'm not a lifetime subscriber, yet.

In regards to lifetime it is your lifetime. This point has been raised many times before. Roon contacts authorisation servers in order to work. Should anything happen in the future and company went belly up that authorisation will be disabled in the last update. However, they are doing rather well and have been making money for a good while. That's most impressive for a startup company. Have a look at Roon forum if you like, that's the main concern people have when taking out Lifetime membership.

Cost wise, sure it's not cheap. But then again it may be cheaper than "upgrading" streamers all the time as their software is rubbish. And in my case a bargain as I'm using its excellent DSP functionality. Similar solution with Dirac Live or Minidsp (both offering less, might I add) would cost between £200-£800. But work only in one room. Roon offers DSP for every zone.

But of course we have different needs so it may not suit everyone.

If you fancy, I posted a code, a couple of pages back, which gives you 60 day trial (normally 14 days). No credit card necessary, only email address and name is needed for registration.

 

[andyjm]

I was going to give Roon a try, but frankly it does seem rather expensive. The 'lifetime' option in particular raises some questions - whose lifetime are they referring to - yours or theirs?

The chances of a start-up software company surviving in a market where similar software is available for free, raises some questions - although they do have the advantage of being a spin-out of an existing group. The road to HiFi success is littered with the carcasses of failed ventures.

As I pointed out in another thread on streaming audio, you rely on your software company to provide regular updates, the product is useless without their continual support.

Were it me, I think I would go with the annual option and see if they are still around in a year before paying the 'lifetime' price.

Reading the Roon fourm they say if they went under they would issue a final release to existing customers, liftetime and annual unlocking what you've got- you'd never recive and updates on metadata or such but what you have at the time you will keep.

James

James,

Fair enough, but what happens when Tidal update their API, you get a new OS for your PC, a new OS on your phone? Without continual updates, the Roon software will become unusable.

 

[Paulq]

Hi insider9

You seem very familiar with the Roon interface and functionality so I hope you don't mind me asking a couple of questions before I decide whether to go with it or not.

Specifically, I think I have now grasped what it does but I still need to decide whether it's worth it compared to Audirvana+. I think I get that Roon streams to my (now integrated) Linn devices in the original codec with no downsampling of the Bitrate or frequency - is that correct? So if I have a 24/96 file then that's what I'll hear on my Linn DS using Roon - same with Tidal for 16/44 quality. Have I got that right? I have disabled any DSP.

In terms of Audirvana+ then that's not integrated into Linn but I have the option to select the Linn player as a UPnP stream - I am not sure whether Audirvana+ is actually streaming at the original bitrate or actually using something Airplay - any ideas? The software is saying, for example, that it sees the file in 29/96 but I am not sure whether that's what I am listening to.

That's the piece of info I need before deciding whether the cost of Roon is worth it as, if A+, streams at the original file quality then I'll probably stick with that.

Thanks for any help and input.

 

[insider9]

I think I get that Roon streams to my (now integrated) Linn devices in the original codec with no downsampling of the Bitrate or frequency - is that correct? So if I have a 24/96 file then that's what I'll hear on my Linn DS using Roon - same with Tidal for 16/44 quality. Have I got that right? I have disabled any DSP.

Hi Paul,

Roon recognises sampling rates supported by the endpoint/DAC. They will be marked appropriately when you initially setup a device. As long as they match that of played material and you didn't specify any up or downsamplig it will be sent bit perfect. Check out Signal Path to make sure; it will show you what actually is happenig.

As an example Hegel Rost USB DAC accepts max 24/96. However, it doesn't accept 88.2kHz samling rate. In which case Roon will output 96kHz, unless you specify it to donwsample to 44.1kHz.

In terms of Audirvana+ then that's not integrated into Linn but I have the option to select the Linn player as a UPnP stream - I am not sure whether Audirvana+ is actually streaming at the original bitrate or actually using something Airplay - any ideas? The software is saying, for example, that it sees the file in 29/96 but I am not sure whether that's what I am listening to.

RAAT is one of Roon's strenght. As opposed to discussing Upnp it's porbably better if you have a look at RAAT. Please have a look here

The most interesting bit below:

Audio devices must own the audio clock[/b]. Many other protocols get this wrong, including AirPlay. It's not possible for two clocks to agree perfectly. Letting the DAC control the pace of streaming removes the need for a clock-drift-compensation mechanism that is bound to increase cost, decrease sound quality, or both.

As you can see it isn't just about bit perfect playback.

 

[JamesMellor]

James,

Fair enough, but what happens when Tidal update their API, you get a new OS for your PC, a new OS on your phone? Without continual updates, the Roon software will become unusable.

[/quote]

Don't get me wrong I'm on the trial and I have yet to decide if its worth it.

What happens if Tidal folds ? What happens if Pioneer decide not to update airplay on older AV amps ? what happens when you buy a new PC/Mac ?

 

[Paulq]

Hi Paul,

Roon recognises sampling rates supported by the endpoint/DAC. They will be marked appropriately when you initially setup a device. As long as they match that of played material and you didn't specify any up or downsamplig it will be sent bit perfect. Check out Signal Path to make sure; it will show you what actually is happenig.

As an example Hegel Rost USB DAC accepts max 24/96. However, it doesn't accept 88.2kHz samling rate. In which case Roon will output 96kHz, unless you specify it to donwsample to 44.1kHz.

RAAT is one of Roon's strenght. As opposed to discussing Upnp it's porbably better if you have a look at RAAT. Please have a look here

The most interesting bit below:

Audio devices must own the audio clock. Many other protocols get this wrong, including AirPlay. It's not possible for two clocks to agree perfectly. Letting the DAC control the pace of streaming removes the need for a clock-drift-compensation mechanism that is bound to increase cost, decrease sound quality, or both.

As you can see it isn't just about bit perfect playback.

Thanks I had a look at that and it made sense - I appreciate you coming back tome.

The only bit I am struggling with, nowithstanding the above which assumes that Roon's RAAT protocol ensures greater quality than UPnP, is that I actually cannot hear a difference. Playing tracks via Roon then A+ respectively on my Majik DSM - I honestly cannot hear any difference whatsoever.

I'm not out to be deliberately critical or supportive of one over the other as I have no loyalty to one over the other. I am, right now, listening to a Kosheen album and have played one track back to back via Roon and A+ respectively and, honestly, I cannot tell them apart.

Maybe it's my age.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

James,

Fair enough, but what happens when Tidal update their API, you get a new OS for your PC, a new OS on your phone? Without continual updates, the Roon software will become unusable.

Don't get me wrong I'm on the trial and I have yet to decide if its worth it.

What happens if Tidal folds ? What happens if Pioneer decide not to update airplay on older AV amps ? what happens when you buy a new PC/Mac ?

[/quote] I can answer the question about if you change your computer as I’ve had to change mine because the first one I brought went wrong big time so now on a different Pc .

Anyway you obviously re- download the Roon software and then you would sign in which let’s Roon know who you are then you go to you account details which it will show you your computer name or number you then delete your old computer and then Roon will work with your new Pc .

And I did read somewhere that Roon sends 10 license keys a year but do not hold me on this but ones you start paying you can use them for the hole family so they can use your library like ITunes but without effecting what your listening too .

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Hi Paul,

Roon recognises sampling rates supported by the endpoint/DAC. They will be marked appropriately when you initially setup a device. As long as they match that of played material and you didn't specify any up or downsamplig it will be sent bit perfect. Check out Signal Path to make sure; it will show you what actually is happenig.

As an example Hegel Rost USB DAC accepts max 24/96. However, it doesn't accept 88.2kHz samling rate. In which case Roon will output 96kHz, unless you specify it to donwsample to 44.1kHz.

RAAT is one of Roon's strenght. As opposed to discussing Upnp it's porbably better if you have a look at RAAT. Please have a look here

The most interesting bit below:

Audio devices must own the audio clock. Many other protocols get this wrong, including AirPlay. It's not possible for two clocks to agree perfectly. Letting the DAC control the pace of streaming removes the need for a clock-drift-compensation mechanism that is bound to increase cost, decrease sound quality, or both.

As you can see it isn't just about bit perfect playback.

Thanks I had a look at that and it made sense - I appreciate you coming back tome.

The only bit I am struggling with, nowithstanding the above which assumes that Roon's RAAT protocol ensures greater quality than UPnP, is that I actually cannot hear a difference. Playing tracks via Roon then A+ respectively on my Majik DSM - I honestly cannot hear any difference whatsoever.

I'm not out to be deliberately critical or supportive of one over the other as I have no loyalty to one over the other. I am, right now, listening to a Kosheen album and have played one track back to back via Roon and A+ respectively and, honestly, I cannot tell them apart.

Maybe it's my age.

I felt I couldn’t tell the difference by using my Yamaha wxc50 or the Oppo 203 which is Roon ready but like you I didn’t know what file format the Roon was sending but do now but at the time my Pc died so never got the chance to see .

But got a fresh Pc now and waiting on 2x 4TB WD Black 7200 speed hard drives to arrive and I’ve managed to sort out the 2TB hard drive and that’s in the Pc now and working so I will have plenty of storage 10TB ones I start ripping CDs again .

Then I will look to see what Roon is outputting to the Oppo but I did feel when I had the other Pc when I did have some music to stream over to the Oppo and the Yamaha wxc50 I couldn’t tell the difference between them both and the Yamaha Wxc50 was using airplay which I thought sounded pretty good for airplay as Roon is meant to down sample airplay .

Have you tried the MQA files on tidal yet ?

 

[JamesMellor]

Sorry BS we are thinking after/if Roon folds, where would you download it from <S>

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Sorry BS we are thinking after/if Roon folds, where would you download it from <S>

ok got you I wouldn’t no but can not see that happening because they have got so many hifi companies joining Roon all the time I mean as long as they do it’s safe I think