Mains cables, lets put an end to this nonsense.

[andyjm]

I have noticed a new crop of "yes I can, no you can't" threads over the last few weeks regarding cables.

Rather than descend to playground taunts, in the spirit of Sir Isaac Newton, I suggest we apply the scientific method. My hypothesis is:

"In a domestic setting*, with a HiFi** amplifier, it is impossible to differentiate between different mains cables*** in a properly conducted blind listening test"

* A normal domestic setting, not where an arc welder is plugged into the same circuit.

** An amplifier from a recognised HiFi manufacturer

*** Cables have to be adequately specified to carry sufficient current according to the amplifier manufacturers requirements.

I suggest we perform an experiment to check my hypothesis.

I will PM the more prominent cable supporters to invite them to a properly conducted ABX test, and suggest that they bring their favourate cable along to include in the test. For myself, I will bring the cable that I use for my Krell amplifier that came free with a Dell computer many moons ago. Used because it is nice and flexible and just the right length.

I had originally thought of using my listening room for the test, but my wife is not keen on me inviting (in her words) "a bunch of HifI wierdos from an internet forum" over, so I will try to find neutral territory. There are a few dealers who post on here who seem to have an open mind on these things (and I guess don't sell mains cables), so I will try them. If anyone is interested in hosting, please let me know.

I will mug up on how to conduct a proper ABX test, how many tests are required to be statistically significant, and the correct format of the test. Any pointers welcome. I will post the test protocol so we can all agree, and then post the results of the tests.

Interested?

 

[Craig M.]

:rofl:

Looking forward to seeing some of the excuses.

 

[fr0g]

There is a caveat for me.

On my ADMs I was getting terrible inteference from my phone. I added ferrite cores to the mains cables and it (mostly) cured it.

Now this is not change in bass, treble, soundstage etc, just a ridding of inteference, but it does show that a shielded cable can act differently.

Of course this should cost no more than a few quid.

 

[The_Lhc]

I will PM the more prominent cable supporters

You won't, this forum doesn't support private messaging...

 

[RobinKidderminster]

Predudice? Only non sceptics? I wonder how easy it would be to set up this kind of test. I have no idea where forumites live but it would be fun to get involved. Good luck, I hope it works out and look forward to hearing of yr progress

 

[hammill]

There is a caveat for me.

On my ADMs I was getting terrible inteference from my phone. I added ferrite cores to the mains cables and it (mostly) cured it.

Now this is not change in bass, treble, soundstage etc, just a ridding of inteference, but it does show that a shielded cable can act differently.

Of course this should cost no more than a few quid.

My Onkyo makes a terrible noise when playing DAB if I use my bean to cup. I assume the bean to cup is transmitting radio waves and there is nothing I can do unless anyone has any ideas?

 

[chebby]

How about not starting them and not posting on them?

 

[The_Lhc]

My Onkyo makes a terrible noise when playing DAB if I use my bean to cup. I assume the bean to cup is transmitting radio waves

I have literally no idea what you're saying! Bean to cup?

 

[daveh75]

I assume it means his coffee machine is spewing rf.

 

[chebby]

My Onkyo makes a terrible noise when playing DAB if I use my bean to cup. I assume the bean to cup is transmitting radio waves

I have literally no idea what you're saying! Bean to cup?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bean-to-Cup-Coffee-Machines-Tea-Espresso/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=n%3A368204031

 

[andyjm]

I will PM the more prominent cable supporters

You won't, this forum doesn't support private messaging...

Ahh. That must be that other HiFi forum...

I will have to give this some thought then.

 

[The_Lhc]

I assume it means his coffee machine is spewing rf.

ff... why not just say coffee machine then? I thought it was some kind of posing pouch or something...

 

[drummerman]

Well, I use these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Audio-Friendly-SILVER-Mains-Power-cable-1-5-metres-/220551485582?pt=UK_Computing_Sound_Vision_Power_Cables_Connectors&hash=item3359e4988e

on my components.

They are shielded and for that reason alone worth it. Price is not that much more than a simple kettle lead but worth it imo.

I also use ferrite cores on leads going into my amplifiers and inside my AV receiver.

regards

 

[matt49]

:rofl:

Looking forward to seeing some of the excuses.

I will PM the more prominent cable supporters

You won't, this forum doesn't support private messaging...

Ahh. That must be that other HiFi forum...

I will have to give this some thought then.

 

[spiny norman]

I thought it was some kind of posing pouch or something...

Which in a way it was.

 

[the record spot]

Well, I use these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Audio-Friendly-SILVER-Mains-Power-cable-1-5-metres-/220551485582?pt=UK_Computing_Sound_Vision_Power_Cables_Connectors&hash=item3359e4988e

on my components.

They are shielded and for that reason alone worth it. Price is not that much more than a simple kettle lead but worth it imo.

I also use ferrite cores on leads going into my amplifiers and inside my AV receiver.

regards

Thanks for the link DM. Just what I'm after.

 

[drummerman]

Most welcome

Regards

 

[alienmango]

Can we do speaker cables and interconnects while we are at it.....might as well end all the pointless bickering in one mad orgy of "hifi weirdo" fun.

 

[hammill]

I assume it means his coffee machine is spewing rf.

ff... why not just say coffee machine then? I thought it was some kind of posing pouch or something...

I am astonished you have never heard of them, they sell them in Argos for Christ's sake and have been discussed on this forum before. If I had said coffee machine you would have thought percolator which is a quite different animal and fairly unlikely to cause the same problem.

 

[floyd droid]

I will PM the more prominent cable supporters

You won't, this forum doesn't support private messaging...

Ahh. That must be that other HiFi forum...

I will have to give this some thought then.

I would give this some thought too. Private messages on fora are not 100 % private. If you pm someone be careful if you are slagging of moderators

 

[The_Lhc]

I assume it means his coffee machine is spewing rf.

ff... why not just say coffee machine then? I thought it was some kind of posing pouch or something...

I am astonished you have never heard of them, they sell them in Argos for Christ's sake and have been discussed on this forum before.

I don't drink coffee, so I'm not going to be interested in coffee machines in Argos or threads talking about them on here.

If I had said coffee machine you would have thought percolator which is a quite different animal and fairly unlikely to cause the same problem.

I'm not sure it there's a huge amount of relevance as to whether I would have thought it was a percolator, espresso machine or any other kind of coffee making device really?

 

[eengineer]

I'll give it a try:
These expensive mains cables are NOT used in the electronics industry, not in the labs at least.
In the labs we measure with a resolution of 0,04µV. Translated to a full range span of 2V in audio it
would mean 50.000.000 discrete intervals which is about 26bit noise free. Mains cables do
not have any effect on analog or digital resolution (26bit). So it also doesn't has an effect on lower
resolutions (24/16 bit and their corresponding analog voltages).

The human hearing is not a good measuring device.

This cable craze is also a NON discusion in the industry.

The succesfull audio cable bosses are laughing their asses of while drinking champagne easily earned.

However, if expensive stuff makes you happy, don't let this thread hold you back and enjoy the music

 

[MakkaPakka]

OP - Have you asked WHF if it would host a test? I believe it has done similar before and recently there was a thread about a forum get together.

The demo rooms have an obvious advantage over most places. There's a video of it here:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=571779586192502

 

[andyjm]

OP - Have you asked WHF if it would host a test? I believe it has done similar before and recently there was a thread about a forum get together.

The demo rooms have an obvious advantage over most places. There's a video of it here:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=571779586192502

I will try, but I am sceptical whether they will support such a test.

 

[basshound]

OP - Have you asked WHF if it would host a test? I believe it has done similar before and recently there was a thread about a forum get together.

The demo rooms have an obvious advantage over most places. There's a video of it here:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=571779586192502

I will try, but I am sceptical whether they will support such a test.

Good luck with that !