abacus
Well-known member
Opinion is fine, and it is a person's right to express them, (Within legal guidelines) however it is when people start claiming opinion as fact that the problems start.,(Claims without evidence are meaningless at best, deceitful at worst) so keep posting what you believe, but don't claim it as fact without verifiable evidence.
Bill
Bill
Stuart83
Well-known member
Once I was showed the side by side evidence of the electronic values between expensive cable Vs reasonable priced cable being exactly the same the whole debate was settled to me.
They carried the same signal/information exactly.
I won't go as far as to say silly cheap crappy cable won't effect things as I once had to use Poundland cable for a DJ set when I misplaced mine.
I had no choice being miles away from home etc, it's all we could get hold of and it instantly glowed red and melted in two as the guage was hair thin (we had to put loads of strands together thus increasing the guage to get by) but that aside a correct guage, good budget set of cables will carry the exact same thing.
Guage is important but past that
I use van damn cables because they are reasonably priced and well built but out of various cables I've used throughout the yrs I've never heard a difference even when I've actually bought the higher priced stuff.
I swapped speaker cable before for more expensive stuff when a cheaper pair of "gear-it" branded cable oxidised yet I heard no difference.
I have a very analytical mind which can be problematic.
It won't have me lie to myself even to justify a purchase, I know clipping the ends of the existing cable would of sufficed but in my defence I was needing a larger guage for a updated amp that was going in.
They carried the same signal/information exactly.
I won't go as far as to say silly cheap crappy cable won't effect things as I once had to use Poundland cable for a DJ set when I misplaced mine.
I had no choice being miles away from home etc, it's all we could get hold of and it instantly glowed red and melted in two as the guage was hair thin (we had to put loads of strands together thus increasing the guage to get by) but that aside a correct guage, good budget set of cables will carry the exact same thing.
Guage is important but past that
I use van damn cables because they are reasonably priced and well built but out of various cables I've used throughout the yrs I've never heard a difference even when I've actually bought the higher priced stuff.
I swapped speaker cable before for more expensive stuff when a cheaper pair of "gear-it" branded cable oxidised yet I heard no difference.
I have a very analytical mind which can be problematic.
It won't have me lie to myself even to justify a purchase, I know clipping the ends of the existing cable would of sufficed but in my defence I was needing a larger guage for a updated amp that was going in.
Revolutions
Well-known member
Gray
Well-known member
Steady on Revo, I've used Van Damme 75 ohm cable to make some digital interconnects 🙂
'Studio Grade' from them means durable as much as anything else.
Their 'Tour Grade' mic and speaker cables will sound no better than cheaper stuff (though their Starquad mic cable demonstrably picks up less interference than standard two- core screened).
Revolutions
Well-known member
But if we go by your initial argument, there’s cheaper cable that’ll do just as good a job, right? 😁
If a casual buyer (let’s say a fictional person called Doug) is influenced by a salesperson’s opinion, or buys the overpriced interconnects of a premium brand they know & love, is that really gullible? Personally, I think it’s totally expected behaviour.
The problem comes, as Bill said above, when people start boasting about their diamond cut copper wire with emerald casing delivers better audio quality.
At the same time, we all own components that are needlessly over engineered because “why not?”. Anyone using XLR cables is most likely getting zero benefit from them, for example.
Maybe I’m defending these people because I like to buy mid-priced cables (£30 phono leads / £100 on speaker cable) that look & feel premium. It makes me feel better when connectors look cool 😶🌫️
Gray
Well-known member
Can't remember what I paid for a few metres of Van Damme, but it wasn't expensive.
Certainly there is cheaper - if you aren't going to physically stress them, then the freebies, to plenty of blind testers, are no worse audibly.
Many frown on their lapped, as opposed to braided screening - but there was the poster on here complaining of hum from his turntable.....which was cured by replacing his fancy, expensive cables with the old bootlace freebies.
Obviously no ground loops involved - he was connecting turntable to amp just using different cable. Whichever way you look at it, the 'inferior' bootlace cable had provably better screening from the hum than the more expensive stuff.
As for salesmen, I can honestly say that I have never bought anything on the recommendation of a salesmen - I don't like them. I've been told, more than once, that I could never be a salesman - something I take more as a compliment.
I'm not saying they're all bad - the law of averages says they can't be - but the ones I've seen, rely on a degree of gullibility from the customer.
To be clear, I don't blame people for gullibility - look at those multi-thousand pound fuses.
It's clearly stated, that they are the result of 22 years research into 'bottleneck distortion' that's got to be a good thing right?
Likewise, the benefits of really expensive cables are very persuasively and plausibly explained by people whose words can't be doubted - by the gullible.
Of course it's the choice of anyone to spend their money on whatever they fancy.
Just as it's my choice to post my money down the nearest drain if I wish.
Al ears
Well-known member
Please do not post money down drains, it might cause issues.
Post it to me instead and I will safely dispose of it for you...
I'd like to think that if I were a multi-millionaire I would still have a hard time dropping 500+ dollars for a set of interconnects and I know there are some way more pricey than that. At the end of the day it's still just a cable. It's a connector. Are some built better than others? Sure but I don't think they have to cost that much. At some point it just seems to be overkill. It's just like the HDMI cables that some people pay hundreds for because it's a "special" cable that's platinum coated and is supposed to function better than the others when it's all hogwash. With HDMI cables it's all about the data rate. If if it matches your needs then that's all you need! I mean who the hell watches 8k content anyway? Does it even exist outside of showroom demos? I'm all for not skimping on intricate devices like amps, turntables, phono-stages, etc. That's just my thoughts.
Al ears
Well-known member
And hopefully that's the end of another cable thread.....
Stuart83
Well-known member
Mmm
That aside I have had cables come away before around the connecters so decided something a little better would be better.
After much experience of moving DJ equipment from set to set I've had a few cable failures, meaning I switched to van damme cables for a reason far far beyond the assumptions only process of most people when they buy into expensive connections.
I only DJ for fun or as the odd favour now but the van damme cables proved good enough for anything hence they are my "go to" for all things audio connections.
Also Van damme is nearly as cheap as any other option.
Amazon's basics are 7.90 or there abouts but as I know aren't very robust.
As said I think personally "a good budget set of cables" are as good as any as my post indicates.
Mmmmm they were 10 £ s Revo !!😊
That aside I have had cables come away before around the connecters so decided something a little better would be better.
After much experience of moving DJ equipment from set to set I've had a few cable failures, meaning I switched to van damme cables for a reason far far beyond the assumptions only process of most people when they buy into expensive connections.
I only DJ for fun or as the odd favour now but the van damme cables proved good enough for anything hence they are my "go to" for all things audio connections.
Also Van damme is nearly as cheap as any other option.
Amazon's basics are 7.90 or there abouts but as I know aren't very robust.
As said I think personally "a good budget set of cables" are as good as any as my post indicates.
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Oxfordian
Well-known member
No one is gullible.
One person's perception of the buyer of that fuse at £4k (or whatever) is that they are gullible because they wouldn't do it themselves, but the person who buys it believes in the tech behind the design and has the resources to buy these things without batting an eyelid, the person who has bought the fuse takes it home, uses it and is happy.
Why is it gullible?
You just don't get or understand that how someone spends their money is absolutely no concern to anyone else, just because you believe it is a waste of money doesn't make you right and them wrong.
Whether a person spends £5, £50, £500, £5000 or £50,000 on cables for their system is absolutely fine as far as I'm concerned. It has no impact on what i'm doing so I am happy for them irrespective of their outlay.
Why individuals on this and other forums deem a person spending more money than they believe is necessary as gullible is quite frankly staggering, in many ways it is a form of bullying and that isn't nice.
You have your view on what is and is not acceptable for you, that's fine and I am more than happy to respect your view, in return let others have their own view on what is acceptable for them.
We all work hard to earn the money that we spend on our hobbies, how we choose to spend that money is up to each individual, as long as their purchase gives them enjoyment and makes them happy then that is that matters. Cost doesn't come into it.
12th Monkey
Moderator
We've gone over to speculating about the personal characters of those who buy these things - whilst whether they make a difference seems a suitable hifi thread, their character and motivation probably isn't. As this thread has cost us a member, let's stay on topic. Or preferably let the thread die - I can't see there's anything being said that hasn't been said as nauseam.
Stuart83
Well-known member
Can I just point out the obvious here the definition of "gullible"
"easily persuaded to believe something; credulous.
"an attempt to persuade a gullible public to spend their money"
Spending 50.000 on cables that make no scientific differences and carry provably the same information as a "good budget set" is indeed within that definition.
I've seen from sine waves to metering even frequency response and they are mirrored but none demonstrated to me better than my father did when I too bought (not too expensive) cables but I won't go further than that suffice to say it's definitive.
That's not side skirting the issue of causing offence to someone who has fallen for such a trick as to pay for false advertising etc its something played within all things but as a person I'm unwilling to play about with word definition to suit a false belief.
I will miss you it's a shame if you do not return but I have been on the recieving end of a sharp tongue or two since my time here but as it's usually the same members believe it's nothing more than a passionate expression of words.
I do hope to see you again and that your reading this on your return.
"easily persuaded to believe something; credulous.
"an attempt to persuade a gullible public to spend their money"
Spending 50.000 on cables that make no scientific differences and carry provably the same information as a "good budget set" is indeed within that definition.
I've seen from sine waves to metering even frequency response and they are mirrored but none demonstrated to me better than my father did when I too bought (not too expensive) cables but I won't go further than that suffice to say it's definitive.
That's not side skirting the issue of causing offence to someone who has fallen for such a trick as to pay for false advertising etc its something played within all things but as a person I'm unwilling to play about with word definition to suit a false belief.
I will miss you it's a shame if you do not return but I have been on the recieving end of a sharp tongue or two since my time here but as it's usually the same members believe it's nothing more than a passionate expression of words.
I do hope to see you again and that your reading this on your return.
Stuart83
Well-known member
Gray
Well-known member
The vast majority of people would surely agree with that.
Anybody that doesn't believe people can gullible.....here's my definition:
In another forum, an open minded person had purchased a £200 'Audiophile' fuse.
After considered evaluation he came to the conclusion that there was probably no audible benefit.
But, he SERIOUSLY suggested that if he'd bought one of the more expensive fuses, he would have heard a benefit.
If that person is not gullible, then nobody in the world is gullible.
Rodolfo
Well-known member
I have only shopped and opted for cables that are prettier and look more substantial than stock. I've never paid more than about $20 for inter-connects, nor about $40 for speaker cables. I've never had any issues with any cable or plug -stock or replacement- that I recall. As with my equipment, I have no doubt that I can improve diversely on my choices, but am satisfied with, and thankful that I thoroughly enjoy the music I am able reproduce with the handsome cables and all.
Joyful listening to all.
Joyful listening to all.
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